Moving the forum

[unick3]

I would agree with Jon Matcho. Most discount servers have many negative issues with them and not even John knows the extent of the problems I have had with three different web hosts. It’s a whole other world of sellers, resellers, discount brokers, etc. I spent a lot of time sending emails to the support departments getting this site working on a constant basis. I STILL regularly recieve emails dealing with server problems. The main issue is that our current server shares its resources with many other customers, shares bandwidth, etc.

 

Having a dedicated server will dramatically improve the Forum’s response and reliability. Jon sounds like he very knowledgeable of the vBulletin software and has an interest in improving the look and operation of the Forum. I have OFTEN wished someone who really knew code and software would take an interest to improve the whole Forum experience. Such things as better graphics, links to vendors (who could pay for the privilege) or links to other web site would be a great addition and could possibly help generate more interest in this form of communication vice email.

 

My vote is to have the most reliable a capable server and support staff possible for the Forum and to accept Jon’s generous offer to host the web site.

 

Thanks Joh!

 

Nick

[mplafleur]

I'll second the vote for Jon.

[dust]

John is here day after day, and he is no slouch when it comes to software, whatever he decides is what he has decided, end of story.

 

He has shown his long term commetment

 

Noww back to building

 

We added 1 night during the week for a while

 

mike

[tu54]

I sometimes spend time on message boards where exchanges are very heated and vile as a norm, so this to me is all still very civil, but...

 

"unfortunately, it seems to me, we have the potential to screw it up. Our current and future Cozy community deserves only the best."

 

Jon it sounds as if you really really really want it. As a string-puller in a commercial software and web-hosting outfit, I'd have to be wondering where you would want to take it, how you'de want to develop it, package it with other links and services. I think John Slade was being polite in asking us all for the poll, you sound accustomed to making business happen. I don't think you meant to say that John Slade would 'screw it up' were you?

[John Slade]

I'd have to be wondering where you would want to take it, how you'de want to develop it, package it with other links and services.

 

Interesting. If you ask Nick, he'll tell you that I had the same thoughts for the future of this forum when we started it. I hoped it would become the hub of the canard world. What we have right now is a bunch of spokes. I was REALLY sick of the clunky old censored canard aviators list and felt that we could do better. Having said that, I wouldn't want to see the forum become "obnoxious" with pop-ups and the like. I would resign in a New Jersey second.

 

I didn't realize Jon was offering a dedicated server. That would certainly be excellent, as would the upgrades, maintenance etc. etc.

I think Jon's heart is in the right place - he's a Cozy builder after all - but I think I'd still like ultimate "control" to be with either myself, Nick or both. This can be done simply by having the domain the forum lives on registered to either myself or Nick.

 

This leads to an issue which needs to be clarified - When I registered my airplane I formed Canard Aviation Inc. with a view to travelling around in the Cozy and doing some canard related work as a spare time thing. I already did one job (a velocity door) and expect to do more. I might even want to start finishing unfinished projects.

 

I do business and software consulting for a living, but sometimes have large gaps between contracts.

 

I took out canardaviation.com to match the new company name. I haven't done anything with it yet, pending first flight of the plane, but I don't want to part with the name since it matches the corporation. cozyaircraft.com/forum worked just fine, and I'd be happy with canardaviation.com/forum, but I'm not ready to "donate" the domain itself because I have plans for it.

 

The alternative would be to register a new domain like canardaviatorsforum.com and move the forum over to that. I loose the marketing advantage of having the forum under my company name, which would have been nice, but isnt really a big deal.

 

Does this answer: "I just can't help but feel that there are some other forces at work here." or were you suggesting something else?

[Jim Hann]

Guys,

 

All this kindness and well-meaning is killing me. Everyone has the forum's best interests at heart. It sounds like Jon has the equipment to keep this thing running for years to come. I do think that John and Nick should keep running it like they have been (no offense to Jon) regardless of where it is hosted and what the domain name is.

 

If I remember correctly, Nick originally had it under a different domain with a pointer from cozyaircraft.com to it. It worked fine that way, so I am sure that we can come up with a domain name to register, if needed.

 

This is not the only vBulletin board I post on. They all look different but the operate the same (that is to say well.) I want to see it stay, I will pay if I need to, but keep this going.

 

My suggestion is: Jon, John, and Nick, get on the phone, or in a chat room and discuss this amongst yourselves. Between the three of you, I think you can do no worse than keep this board running exactly the same as it today. My opinion is that you will improve it when all is said and done.

 

As for me, I survived another recurrent ride in the box today, and I have to go fly the real thing tomorrow. Be safe.

 

Jim

[tu54]

Actually, I sensed your possible direction too John (who I've never met personally and probably badly impressed with what YOU think are my crazy ideas that I'm secretly going forward with anyway, raspberries). Nor have I met Jon.

 

But if this were to become consolidated with other things and further developed, my preference would be for it to be centered not around a web-based business, which I've been part of a couple times at Trip.com and Circle.com, but something which more directly and narrowly supports canard/pusher/plastic community with a knowledge resource, and ok, a known personality, based on that.

 

I'm sure even I could adequately support this forum with this linux based pc to my right with its panel off and the hard-drive sitting on a chunk of white-foam for better cooling. Best? theres always someone better.

 

My choice is not simply based on what wheel squeeks more loudly and boldly.

 

Disclaimers: If I've talked more than my share it's because I've discovered I have opinions I'd like to express. And notice I didn't refer to vulgar acts involving anyone's family members, pets, IQ, or political alignments. So while I'm being direct, its still civil. It's all 'good'

[Jim Sower]

Jon has a dynamite platform. Nobody can touch his dedicated server and T1 line for all of the reasons stated. John owns the most appropriate domain name, etc. we could ask for. Nick and John have been running the forum quite nicely for quite some time.

 

What's wrong with John's domain on Jon's server with all three of them sharing webmaster duties. I like the idea of links to vendors that are paid for. No banners or pop-ups, just links - perhaps as a category.

 

Why not gratefully accept the best of what each of these kind gentlemen have offered.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by tu54

I don't think you meant to say that John Slade would 'screw it up' were you?

Absolutely and entirely not. When I said '...we have the potential to screw it up...', I truly meant we.

 

Originally posted by John Slade

I'm not ready to "donate" the domain itself because I have plans for it.

This is reasonable and answers all my questions. It's an interesting thought to have this forum evolve to become the canard portal on the Internet, but without serious investment, advertising, and deals with all canard-related companies, I see this as an unrealistic expectation. Regardless, I do like the forward-looking setup of the forums here.

 

In any event, I am confident that ACS will not have a problem with continuing to forward www.cozyaircraft.com/forum to the NEW server and URL on/after 1-January-2004. Technically, we really don't even need a domain name if we just have the link continue to forward. Alternatively, any domain with 'canard' in it would work just fine. What about 'canardhangar.com'? Many options exist.

 

Originally posted by John Slade

I think Jon's heart is in the right place - he's a Cozy builder after all - but I think I'd still like ultimate "control" to be with either myself, Nick or both.

I'm not clear as to what control you're looking for here John, or why my heart is in question. I just want to ensure that a free forum continues to exist that is without any pop-ups or under the influence of a bias from a business. We can have a place for vendors, where we can certainly reserve a place for your new company as a charter 'sponsor'.

 

As far as my own biases, there's nothing I will do to attract any ill will or negative advertising to be sent my way. In fact, this is the biggest risk I see with taking on the forum. If things aren't right from the start, I won't even start, but I'll be a ____ if I won't be able to keep all of this forum's members happy. My agenda is not letting my hobby world interfere with my bread-and-butter.

 

FREE forum membership, commercial performance and quality, NO pop-ups, maintained software and improvements, ongoing attention and support, and a community-based process for improvements for several years. Is that good enough? I do want to do this, partly so I can stop thinking about NOT building, and partly because I know I will do a great job, and do look forward to working w/everyone willing to help.

 

Nick and John, I'll give you a call on Tuesday to setup some time to discuss next steps.

 

Virtually yours,

Jon #1185

ATC @ Brickhouse Software, Inc.

[No4]

I vote for the nice shiny computer thing with twin turbos and gold cables, AND for Mr Slade to stay at the helm; I say this because

a) he seems to know what he's talking about.

b) he's got on and built a canard, not just dreamed about it.

c) he's English.

I guess the last one overrides all other arguments aswell.

Watching the Rugby John?

[John Slade]

In any event, I am confident that ACS will not have a problem with continuing to forward www.cozyaircraft.com/forum to the NEW server and URL on/after 1-January-2004. Technically, we really don't even need a domain name if we just have the link continue to forward.

 

No. No No

 

Jon,

As you know, the domain registration is the ONLY way to control content. Spuce seem to be trying these days but I, for one, mistrust their motivations. Even if I didn't, I wouldnt consider putting the fate of the forum in their (or any other) corporate hands. [expect perhaps my own ]

 

One of the reasons I started this discussion early was so we could get the move done and established before they take over the Cozyaircraft domain.

 

It's an interesting thought to have this forum evolve to become the canard portal on the Internet, but without serious investment, advertising, and deals with all canard-related companies, I see this as an unrealistic expectation.

You're right, of course, but perhaps we can make some slow headway in that direction without putting in big $$$. Remember that the forum has been created and has grown to 400+ members on a shoestring. With even a small investment, the growth of this forum COULD have a significant impact on the growth of the canard type in general. The "shoestring" was one of the reasons I suggested hosting it in a domain / server I was already paying for.

 

I'm not clear as to what control you're looking for here John, or why my heart is in question

I was simply trying to alay some of the fears being expressed. The regulars here seem to like the laid back approach which makes a nice contrast to the "slamming" we tend to see in other lists. One of the fears seems to be that you might be a little overzealous and take the forum in a totally new direction. By holding domain registration, Nick and I would be the "brakes" should that occur.

 

To summarize, consensus seems to be:

1. accept Jon's gratious offer of free hosting

2. leave myself and/or Nick "in the left seat", while letting Jon "fly right seat" guiding us as we mature and grow.

 

The only remaining question seems to be whether we go with canardaviation.com/forum, or pick [buy] a new name.

 

I've modified the voting options to suit. The last option is for anyone who feels uncomfortable able where we're going here.

 

Regards,

John

 

(Too busy building to watch the Rugby)

(nothing good was ever achieved by committee)

[unick3]

I have read all the posts and at some point a decision has to be made and we have to move on.

 

After reseaching the forum, personally purchasing the software, investing untold hours getting the Forum up and running and being knowledgably about the product and net services requirements, and eventually moving to Nats site, I feel qualified in making the decision. I feel Jon is the best choice for continued hosting of the board.

 

I will make arrangement to transfer hosting of the board to Jon, who now has administrative rights to the software. I have sent an email to Jon to contact me about the move.

 

I honestly think this is the best way to continue and dramaticly improve the Forum with the least overall disruption. Builders will still have control of the Forum, not ACS. The last decision to be made is the name (URL) the \forum will be located under. I have no feeling what so ever about this issue.

 

I really appreciate all the points of view expressed. It made my decision much easier to make.

 

Nick

[Marc Zeitlin]

I know I'll get crap from a few of the regulars here since some of you think I have a vested interest in seeing this forum disappear, but I thought that it might be useful to John and Nick (who do all the work, which I understand only too well) as well as to the regulars what the facts of this forum are.

 

There are 427 registered members. Out of those 427, 133 of them have not visited the forum in over 12 months. Another 106 have not visited in 6 months. Another 51 have not visited in 3 months, and another 50 have not visited in a month, for a total of 340. That leaves 87 members that have visited the forum within the past month, or 137 within the past three. So, you are not communicating to as many people as you think when you post a message or question here.

 

There have been 3510 posts to this forum. 1103 of them have been from the top TWO posters (neither one of which has completed or flown their plane) - almost one third of the posts. 2074 have been from the top 10 posters (none of whom have completed or flown their planes) - 60%.

 

It seems clear from these data that the audience (and information sources) are pretty small. This isn't a bad thing - all communication media start small, by definition. The CCF has only been around for 1.5 years, so the potential for growth is still there.

 

However, in comparison to the canard_aviators mailing list, which has over 1500 members and vibrant discussions with people from all stages of building and flying, many of whom have built/flown multiple planes and have upwards of 10 - 20 years of canard experience, anyone relying solely on the CCF for information sharing is missing a lot.

 

If I were John or Nick, I'd ask myself if the work involved in moving and maintaining a third communication medium with the current stats is worth the effort and time. I ask myself that same question all the time.

 

Flame away.

[John Slade]

One point you miss, Marc, is that there are MANY people who read this forum without joining. For example, the discussion about RVs and Cozy's has had 15 replies, and 191 views.

 

Admittedly the knowledge base is relatively slim pickings here, but that will change with time. I'm not sure when, but eventually this medium WILL replace the clunky old mail lists. Not the least of the reasons why this will happen is the continuing dissemination of email addresses to thousands of virus vunerable email address books. We saw a result of that over in the Cozy forum this morning. It will only get worse. And, by the way, yes, dropping off a mail list WILL stop the flood of viruses if, and only if, you get a new mailing address and don't register it with a mail list ever again.

 

With respect to Canard Aviators - Compared to 1000 + old farts saying the same thing over and over, slamming anyone who says different, and censoring things they don't like, this forum is VERY VALUABLE.

 

Regards,

John

 

PS - I'm guessing I'm the number 1 poster you mentioned. If that's the case, then the number 1 poster is ABOUT to be promoted from builder to flyer. Will that help you're statistics?

[tu54]

Fyi Marc, I did very much enjoy being on your email based system. I found I was addicted and spending 30 to 90 minutes each day going thru the mail and copy-n-pasting the more valuable stuff to my own filing system. This was necessary to delete mail and keep my yahoo-id from filling to capacity and shutting down. Finally I had to let it overfill for other reasons and reject all new mail. I'd join again but I'm afraid I'd spend 30-90 minutes per day again and not get stuff done on my project. Same reason I keep telling myself not to do a project web-site. Despite forums, your system is a good thing and I hope it stays around.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Originally posted by John Slade

One point you miss, Marc, is that there are MANY people who read this forum without joining. For example, the discussion about RVs and Cozy's has had 15 replies, and 191 views.

Don't count "views" as meaning much - every time ANYONE looks at the thread, including the 14 people who've posted to it, the "view" count increments. If each of the 14 people have viewed it 8 times each (not unreasonable considering all the posts over the past few days) that would account for 112 out of the 191 "views".

 

Admittedly the knowledge base is relatively slim pickings here, but that will change with time.

That's the same thing that was said a year ago when I asked my question regarding the appeal of this forum and was castigated severely for trying to elicit opinions.

 

I'm not sure when, but eventually this medium WILL replace the clunky old mail lists. Not the least of the reasons why this will happen is the continuing dissemination of email addresses to thousands of virus vunerable email address books. We saw a result of that over in the Cozy forum this morning,

Do you actually believe that most spam/viruses comes from mailing lists or memberships thereto? Anyone that surfs the web (and is not sophisticated enough to spoof their email address for their browser) is littering the internet with invitations to spam/virus them. If I had to guess, over 95% of spam comes from surfing the web, not from mailing lists. I know many people that are spammed incessantly, and none of them are even members of ONE mailing list. Most viruses come from people you've sent email to, or someone that is peripherally related to people you've sent email to. You'd have to stop sending email altogether to stop being suceptible to viruses. That's an extremely weak argument.

 

It will only get worse. And, by the way, yes, dropping off a mail list WILL stop the flood of viruses if, and only if, you get a new mailing address and don't register it with a mail list ever again.

Even getting a new address will not help if you ever use it (and not using it sort of negates the utility, no?).

 

With respect to Canard Aviators - Compared to 1000 + old farts saying the same thing over and over, slamming anyone who says different, and censoring things they don't like, this forum is VERY VALUABLE.

You are being as close-minded as the old moderator that you railed against. The new moderator lets just about EVERYTHING through - way more than _I_ would if I were moderating it (which I wouldn't, since I don't believe in moderation). And the old farts that you dis have built VE's, LE's, COZY's, Velocities, Defiants, installed Subaru's, Mazdas, turbocharged engines, EFIS's, fuel systems, instrument panels, retractable landing gear, and forgotten more about canard aircraft than you or I will ever know. The thought that you have nothing to learn from them is laughable.

 

PS - I'm guessing I'm the number 1 poster you mentioned. If that's the case, then the number 1 poster is ABOUT to be promoted from builder to flyer. Will that help you're statistics?

Depends on what "help" means. I used the numbers the forum provides to indicate who's talking and who's listening. I think that the fact that essentially no one (including some that joined earlier and have dropped off) who flies a canard aircraft of any type posts here on a regular basis (the COZY designer included) is a telling piece of information for those who actually want to learn something, rather than just hear themselves talk.

 

John, if you like this medium better than mailing lists, fine - continue to support it and run it, and maybe someday, as you say, it will supplant mailing lists. You were the one that asked for people's $0.02, and I provided mine.

[Jim Sower]

almost one third of the posts. 2074 have been from the top 10 posters (none of whom have completed or flown their planes).... audience (and information sources) are pretty thin

True enough. But check how many of the top ten posters on your list (you were one of the top 3 or 4 for years, as was John Slade) had not completed or flown. I think it is the nature of these lists that mostly those involved in building are motivated to monitor the list closely and participate. I think that's the way it should be.

 

That said, Marc runs the best list in the canard community. NO CENSORSHIP is VERY important!

 

One main complaint of mine about his list is the vulnerablility to virus' and other mischief. Last spring/summer I had several of HUNDRED virus' with return addresses of members of the Cozy list. If I had my druthers, I would like to see Marc's membership here (I am active on both lists).

 

addicted and spending 30 to 90 minutes each day going thru the mail and copy-n-pasting

I do that too. This format makes it easier and arguably unnecessary (can't speak to Marc's archives - I haven't figured out how to access them simply and easily).

 

Anyway, I would hate to lose either of the Cozy lists. I greatly value them both. I like the format of this list better, and would like to see them merge to this format.

[tu54]

I've seen that this forum has done as well as it has only because of Slade's participation. Now it appears that largely-absent Nick hass slam-dunked / trumped it, at least the software, nobody owns the current content. I hope we get an offer of a good deal on the IPO or a cut if this is actually successfully grown and attempted to be sold to ACS in a couple years by Brickhouse. Merlot.

[John Slade]

Thanks for the kind words, Merlot and others.

 

Fact is I enjoy contributing and encouraging others. Through the private emails and project visits I'm probably responsible for 50 or more sales of Cozy plans over the past few years. Do I want a commission? No. I also beefed up and maintained the Cozy web page for Nat. Why? Simply because I want to see the type grow, and I want others to have as much fun as I'm having. I'm not the slightest bit interested in ownership of the content, or in the "power" of being "Admin". If that's what lights other people's fire, good luck to them.

 

If the forum remains interesting, then I'm happy to be part of it wherever it resides and whoever runs it. It's really not a big deal who now owns (or should I say posseses) the software which Nat paid for. Actually, since he bought the software, and hosted the forum since it's inception, be interested to know his view on the matter.

 

Most of my input to this community doesnt go here or the Cozy list anyway, it goes on my web site.

 

Rather than concern myself about who's doing what on the forum or mail list I spent the evening doing final assembly on my lower cowl, cowl flap mechanism, radiator, oil coolers etc. All done, sealed with RTV and ready to install on the plane. A very productive evening, and MUCH more fun that arguing with Marc about stuff that postcured in his mind long ago.

 

As Mike often says...

Enjoy the build!

 

John

[Jon Matcho]

Please allow me to straighten a few things out...

Originally posted by tu54

I've seen that this forum has done as well as it has only because of Slade's participation. Now it appears that largely-absent Nick hass slam-dunked / trumped it...

John Slade is clearly active within this site, and a positive influence on the incoming field of Cozy builders, including me! However, to discount the fact that it was Nick Ugolini who created these forums by opening up his own wallet, and giving his own personal time over many months to get it all going is insulting.

Originally posted by John Slade

It's really not a big deal who now owns (or should I say posseses) the software which Nat paid for. Actually, since he bought the software, and hosted the forum since it's inception, be interested to know his view on the matter.

John, what are you suggesting here? Is this what you think is best for the forum, to entice Nat and ACS into thinking that they should own the builder community?! We should all know by now how Nat feels about vigorously defending his property.

 

Only when Nick had everything setup on a different domain did Nat recognize advertising value and agree to cover a small portion of the actual costs (the software) as a token of his appreciation, which Nick did not expect to include labor fees, and initial hosting and setup charges. Nat paid for a single expense, but not for the end product. If I pay for the paper an idea is written on, it does not necessarily mean that the idea is mine.

Originally posted by tu54

I hope we get an offer of a good deal on the IPO or a cut if this is actually successfully grown and attempted to be sold to ACS in a couple years by Brickhouse.

I take it you lost money in the dot-com blowout? I am not interested in setting up an aviation-related business -- just a great builders community for everyone to enjoy.

 

I have been clear about my motive here -- I just want a much better place to go for my own building experience. I presently have the time, resources, experience and skills required that will allow me to evolve this place into its next generation of usability. It's nothing to do with "power", and is only about the ability to build the best solution possible on the proverbial shoestring. I am confident that my shoestring is quite a bit longer than anyone else's and that I will ultimately be able to do better-faster-more.

 

If you haven't noticed, I am in the position of doing 'it' already, and nothing at all has changed for the worse. Did you feel it?

 

Going forward, the same "faces" will continue to moderate the site. I have assumed Nick's administrative and technical responsibilities. I am NOT taking over ownership of any content, am NOT going to moderate, and with the exception of this thread, will continue to post only questions. I will not moderate or censor! In effect, nothing will change in the short term. Over the long term, the site and datastore will be professionally maintained, backed up on a daily basis, upgraded with the latest critical software fixes, and ultimately enhanced to provide additional features as requested by the community.

 

I look forward to next steps here.

 

Yours,

Jon #1185

[John Slade]

John, what are you suggesting here? Is this what you think is best for the forum, to entice Nat and ACS into thinking that they should own the builder community?!

 

Sorry. That was not my intention. It was Nick's idea, and he did 98% of the setup work, so if anyone owns CCF other than its contributors, he does. I do feel, however, that Nat's investment in the software should be returned to him before it's ownership is transferred.

 

If I pay for the paper an idea is written on, it does not necessarily mean that the idea is mine. Nicely put!

 

Just to clarify my position on this, let me say that I'm entirely happy with the choosen direction. This is a good resource with good people on board. I look forward to seeing it grow to become THE canard builder resource with you're help. I have a few ideas which might help further that direction, and would be interested in discussing them with you as we move forward.

 

Now, back to basics - when are you going to build those bulkheads?

Regards,

John

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by John Slade

...Nat's investment in the software should be returned to him before it's ownership is transferred.

Fair enough, and agreed.

Originally posted by Jon Matcho + John Slade

If I pay for the paper an idea is written on, it does not necessarily mean that the idea is mine. Nicely put!

This is not to say that the "right" legal team wouldn't be able to make a case for owning the idea on behalf of Farmer Joe -- the owner of the tree farm from which the tree that was used to make the paper that now holds the idea was found to have been improperly harvested.

Originally posted by John Slade

...let me say that I'm entirely happy with the choosen direction...I look forward to seeing it grow to become THE canard builder resource...I have a few ideas which might help further that direction...

Your tireless support is an absolute asset for everyone. Your ideas, input, and future contributions are most welcome.

 

Everyone, if by 1-February-2004 you do not agree that this site has been substantially improved for the best, I can assure you now that if you come ranting to my virtual office door, I will kindly turn over these reins as Nick has just done to me.

Originally posted by John Slade

Now, back to basics - when are you going to build those bulkheads?

I have actually decided to make an entire book case to put my book end on. For the real work, I have been obsessed with a proper work area, and have decided to build a detached garage. I just visited Jerry Schneider this past weekend to see how his portable Cozy workshop feels (it works!) It was 80 degrees at Jerry's place on Saturday, and then 30 degrees here in New Jersey, and so a well-insulated garage has become my decision. I am clearing trees now and will be building that this Fall-Winter while I use my basement in the interim.

 

Best regards all,

Jon #1185

[John Slade]

>Kum Ba Yah?

If that's a suggestion for the domain name, forget it. Way too subtle for the average aviator.

 

>I am clearing trees now and will be building that this Fall-Winter >while I use my basement in the interim.

I take it a contractor will be building the garage, while you get on with the important stuff in the basement. Good plan, provided you can get the tub out of the basement door....

 

John Slade

(engine start this weekend???)

[Jon Matcho]

>I take it a contractor will be building the garage

I have made a deal w/a builder-friend of mine: He's helping and guiding me through building the garage (stuff that I can do), and I have to return the favor by helping him build his house.

 

I hope to have the structure up well before I even get to the sides. The table won't be making it into my basement.

 

Best wishes with your first flight, and breaking ground in the rotary category. I hope by the time I'm at that stage, a well-established rotary conversion kit/vendor is available consideration.

 

Talk soon,

Jon #1185

[unick3]

These last posts has brought a sick smile to my face remembering how much trouble I had in the beginning, initially setting up the forum.

 

I had to but heads moving things along, spent hours learning about setting up the site (multiple times), getting flamed by the email groups, and almost lost a good friend …Nat… before everything sort of smoothed out to where it is now. Although I don’t post many messages, I still spend hours on the back end doing maintenance on the actual data base end. Lets not loose sight that there are many improvements which still can be made by someone who is a professional in this business (which I am not) and I am looking forward to fresh ideas. Ron, I assure you I can teach you much more about plane building then you could ever teach me about computers.

 

After going though this experience I can assure you that I only want the best forum possible and make the transition as seamlessly as possible.

 

Nick