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Long-ez panel question


velocity dreamer

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I have been playing with Panel builder deciding how to place all the instruments I want and think I need. My first problem is not quite enough space for everything, I dont feel this is much of a problem since everyone is wideing there birds anyway I could widen mine 2 inches front to back and solv that problem.

 

My second problem is with all the instruments I want to install it's taking alot of the panel structure away. My question to you smart people is how much support does the panel supply to the fuse sides. Is there a way to reinforce the panel to make it stronger. Im not real worried about the weight I might ad. I'll be using a bigger engine and need some ballast in front and I plan on using the infinity retracts and upping my gross weight.

 

Last question. In vewing the plans for the panel it seems the leg holes are different sizes. is this the case. If so when I widen my panel I will make the Right leg the same as the Left and making the Left arm rest the same size as the Right. and I think this will still give me another inch for my hips. Correct me if my calculations are wrong.

 

thanks

Lynn

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My original panel was packed with steam gages.

 

Real-estate is at a premium.

 

One of the best decisions I made during my retrofit was to get rid of the steam gages and install an EFIS and an EMS (Dynon)

 

By the time you figure up the costs for the individual gages, the EFIS is the least expensive way to go. AND it frees up a lot of that real estate.

 

Consoles

 

Review the plans very carefully before changing consoles, leg holes, etc.

 

I'm not sure I understood correctly, were you planning on making the fuselage wider?

 

The left leg hole is a little wider, because the left console is narrower than the right.

 

You can't make the right console narrower because this will limit the travel of the stick.

 

IF you make the left console wider, this limits hip room.

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Yes I was planning on making the fuse a little wider. I figured If I widened the instrument panel seat backs and firewall all 2 inches then it would keep the same basic shape. and give a little more elbo room and room for a bigger engine.

 

As far as efis goes I like the blue mountain efis sport G-4. However Talking to the Avionics techs where I work, they dont like working on EFIS systems, and I know of two cessna citations that were converted back to regular guages from EFIS. I have played with the EFIS on panel builder but after adding backup guages Its just as cramped and not a nice looking panel in my oppenion

 

I plan on flying IFR. Nothing major but gust to get through the clouds and get on top, I dont want to get stuck somewere because there is a low overcast.

 

thanks again

Lynn

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You have plenty of elbow room in a Longez without widening the fuselage. It may look narrow---but it is not. If you are an exceptionally wide person, then go ahead and widen the fuselage----but deviating like that from the plans will cost you time until getting into the air.

 

If you can't install an EFIS by yourself, I would not even think of deviating from the plans---you do not have the talent. To say it another way, installing an EFIS is easy----adventuring out and deviating from plans is not so easy. I am not an electrician and have installed a BM Lite, a Dynon EMS and a Dynon EFIS in two different aircraft.

 

Take a look at my Longez panel. In this case I have full steam gauges with ILS, a backup Dynon EFIS and an engine monitor that is montoring 4 egt, 4cht, and more. This is too much stuff---not sure what else you want to stuff in there. Use a sidepanel for important switches that you don't want to get wet---like mags/elect ignition----just about all of your switches.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~swensonaw/id2.html

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Here is what I had in mind without using efis. The cd player you see would actually be one that has the screen that pops out. They are equipped with a small camera. I have seen a velocity with this cd/dvd player and installed the camera in the winglet. with it he could verify gear down and see behind the plane before starting his engine.

 

Anyway this is what I thought looked like a good panel but would need a few more inches.

 

Lynn

post-1321-141090156001_thumb.jpg

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Lynn;

 

Nice looking panel design. Doube check the depth of your radios and instruments, especially near the sides.

 

You may run into clearance issues with canard pitch trim bellcrank on the left side, and canard elevator pushrod and bellcrank on the right side.

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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You may also have problems with the longerons too. You will want to put the 6 pack into more of a normal postion. I too like to include needles within the six pack---but put them where the normal needle ball position is----and locate the needle ball elsewhere.

 

Looks like you have a primer (pump) on the panel----change it to an electric primer---much simpler. I would move all the swithes off the panel and on to a space saver panel.

 

Check you minimum clearances on the six pack---get them as tight as possible.

 

If you have electric nosegear, that will eliminate some of the behind panel problems.

 

Looks like you have some other instruments in there that you don't really need (top left---and at least one of the instruments next to the CD player).

 

I would not make the aircraft wider to justify those instruments----loooootttttt of work.

 

How about this config for six pack plus one

airspeed---dynon att--alt---2nd attitude

needles----hdg-----vsi

 

This gives you redundant airspeed, attitude, altitude, heading and vsi---pretty cool. Way more redundant than you need---and ditches the standard needle ball (dynon also has a needle ball---but hey, you have a second attitude indicator. I'd rather have the second attitude indicator than a needle ball and I'd rather have that than a backup gear checker (might be able to fanagle that better with a convex mirror on the back of the nose gear.

 

Like you are doing, it is better to figure out what you want to do on paper---ask for opinions---all before cutting metal.

 

I used a nice stiff .093 aluminum panel on my longez

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The instrument Top Left is the autopilot control, smallest I seen on panel builder. I noticed that the Panel for the long-ez on panel builder isn't exact to the plans panel, it doesn't show the notches for the longerons, and I think is a little wider. I have a traced blank drawing of the panel on my wall behind my computer and I us it for reference also.

 

I see that it would be easy to get rid of at least 3 items including the cd player. Honestly one of my biggest hangups and you all might think this is no big deal but I want it centered. I don't like a off center panel.

 

Is dynan that good everyone seems to be using it. I think I like the display, graphics and colors of the other efis systems better.

 

Thanks for all the imput so far

Lynn

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Lynn;

 

How far along are you in the build.

 

Not wanting to put a damper on your efforts, but:

 

If your a couple years away from the panel, I wouldn't buy anything. Technology changes fast, and that nice neat new EFIS with built in MP3 player will be totally outdated in two years.

 

ALSO, Storage is not good for steam guages, Use caution when purchasing used gages, Figure in the price of an overhaul and your easily at the cost of a new instrument.

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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I had a Dynon Efis in my Longez----it always worked and never failed---I had two attitude indicators with no separate needle ball.

 

I have a BM Lite Gen4 that mostly serves as my attitude indicator but I do flip the pages to the HSI page or the moving map page. I also like the fact that it puts the needles up on the attitude indicator. I also have a Dynon engine monitor in the panel. It is smaller than the engine monitor you have depicted----and displays all the same stuff---just more compactly.

 

I wanted to have my six pack arranged as follows:

airspeed---BM att---alt

VAL INS(needles)--att---vsi

 

This would give me a pretty good setup when switching the BM att to moving map or HSI----still have an att indicator in the panel when I do this.

 

Did not want to recut my panel, but had to arrange the instruments as follows due to knobby things sticking out and impacting the BM case:

 

airspeed---BM att----VSI

needles---att----alt

 

Note also if you are looking for space, my VAL INS takes up a standard 3 1/8 hole---but gives me needles, frequency, obs, marker beacon all in one unit. You depict having a display and a separate box. Granted, yours does more than mine---but mine takes less space. My BM EFIS has moving map though.

 

Since the Longez panel is fairly narrow, offcenter instruments cause no problems. The nose of the Longez does pinch in somewhat---so be careful mounting the radio stack over to the side. Make sure you actually take the radio out to the plane and see how close you can move it over to the side.

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I am still at least a year from even starting my plane. I am trying to sell my house right now. I just dont want to build my fuse and then 3 years from now find I cant fit what I want on it.

 

How hard is it to cut a panel after ist been installed.

 

I know how things change over a short period of time. Ive even wondered if the engine monitor I show on my panel would work with a Rotary engine. Im just trying to get every thought in my head cleard up before I start. If im going to take 3-9 years building something I want it to be perfect.

 

Lynn

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How hard is it to cut a panel after ist been installed.

Lynn

That's how I'm doing mine. Don't cut any instrument holes! Save that for last because, as waiter said, it's all going to be different by the time you're ready. With the tools that are available today, the only thing you'll avoid by cutting gauge holes now would be vacuuming up some dust later.

 

I looked at my Long-EZ Intrument panel with the same thought but now I'm not concerned at all. I'm building all of my bulkheads to the stock width & height. ....... I might fudge a little in some other areas (like maybe a longer nose) but I want to keep the fuse as much like the bullet Burt designed as I can.

 

You know, there really is no reason you couldn't build some parts now and the assemble them down the road. Like the bulkheads, fuse sides winglets, Center Section Spar, canard ........ all very portable.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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I made my panel aluminum. I cut out the original composite panel and left a half inch or so on the fuselage sides. I then dremeled out the foam between the front and back side of the remaining panel edges. Then floxed in aluminum where the foam used to be. This is what I used to bolt the aluminum panel to.

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Drew, you appear to be using some small rectangular radios. What is the manufacture?

Those are Terra Radios. I liked them---but they don't make them anymore. If I was building another plane with a Longez size panel, I would consider XCOM or Becker products---nice and small with cool features. Here are a couple of sample links.

 

http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page1.htm

 

http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/

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I would consider XCOM or Becker products---nice and small with cool features.

Thanks. Yes, I have looked into both of those manufactures and they both look like very good options for a panel with limited space.

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