Jon Matcho Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I am finally at the point where I need a shop table to continue, and am fixing to build a couple smaller tables, based on the design of EAA Chapter 1000's Standardized Work Tables. I'm sure it's a bit more work to make these happen, and there are some more involved issues with regard to leveling, but everything I've heard about them from others is positive. So... this is my last chance... is there any major reason I should reconsider building a single large table instead? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumaros Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I am finally at the point where I need a shop table to continue, and am fixing to build a couple smaller tables, based on the design of EAA Chapter 1000's Standardized Work Tables. I'm sure it's a bit more work to make these happen, and there are some more involved issues with regard to leveling, but everything I've heard about them from others is positive. So... this is my last chance... is there any major reason I should reconsider building a single large table instead? My solution: 2' wide kitchen counter-top board (melamine/formica covered) cut to 4' length, sitting on four of those tubular adjustable legs you can get at any home-improvement center.Kumaros Quote It's all Greek to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 That sounds like it would work fine, but how do you level it? I prefer not to use shims and want to have built-in hardware if possible. I spent some time today looking at 'elevator bolts', but nothing I found is ready to go. I might be able to have someone weld a bolt onto a plate of steel for me, but would rather just buy the part. I'm also thinking about the 2' x 4' size, because that's how the plywood is most easily cut, but I'm sure I could find a need for the excess 4' x 3' pieces -- maybe use to make the lower shelves. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 I found my "one ton" levelers at Lee Valley here. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Jon Unless you have a large shop, stay with the two smaller tables. When you are done with the large parts, you can separate them, get rid of one or use it to serve your guests while you build on the other one. Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumaros Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Jon, the tubular legs end at revolving feet you can screw in and out thus adjusting table height; it's a very straightforward arrangement. My tables were actually salvaged from a shop remodelling project. You can find the legs in packages of four at most DIY and home-improvement centers. Kumaros Quote It's all Greek to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 I built one of the EAA Chapter 1000 tables this weekend. I would have built more, but of course didn't budget enough time for picking up the wood, and then cutting it to size. I have all the material ready for the remaining 3 tables, but see attached for what one of these things looks like up close. I built it 6' long and added a center brace on the bottom, but other than that it's basically the same as their plans. I plan on bolting 4 of these together, and then setting up a removable top of 3/4" particle board. When I don't need a 4' x 12' table, I can easily rearrange. I'm trying to avoid the levelers from Lee Valley, but those would just put the icing on this cake. I may "need" them too, as my garage is probably 1-2" higher on one end than the other. I suppose I could always use shims. I hope to be able to knock the remaining three out this week. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Not too shabby Jon. Looks nice!! when I made my table, I allowed for a 1 inch overhang of the table top...makes clamping easier. Also, I screwed on a 2nd layer (MDF) on top...made the table stiffer (and heavier) and if it got damaged for what ever reason, could be easily replaced.. However to this date, I have found no reason/need to replace the top. Still in good shape....Maybe I need to build more huh? JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 JD! I have 2.5 of these built so far. Building #2, with all materials cut and ready, took me upwards of 4 hours Monday night (at least the way I was building it). The upsetting part is that there may be some twist in that one, which I hope to fix with the 4'x8' sheet of particle board I have waiting for it. I'm fairly certain all will be fine. I do think I will be getting those levelers. They would make life so much easier than running around w/shims. Wood shingles were suggested to me, but in this case I'm going to splurge and get the levelers. Then again, I could use a simple bolt w/floxed-in nut on the bottom of the legs as well. Hmmm... choices choices. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm up to 2 tables + 2 tops, and plan to finish this weekend. I did find that the assembly of 2'x4's in these plans tend to "taco" when put together. I did my best to offset when screwing on the plywood, but there's still a bit of taco in two of my tops. I plan to add another piece of plywood to the underside to make a tight and square torsion-box structure. Only issues will be with gettng access to the places where I need to bolt these things together. I'm also not sure it totally matters, as I am laying a 3/4" sheet of particle board on top of the tables. We'll see... any thoughts? Anyone? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I think that putting the plywood under the structure will certainly make the table stiffer. I did the same thing...used a hole saw so I could access the bolts with a ratchet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 I now have all tables built and retrofitted with a bottom sheet of plywood on the tops. I had a bunch of helpers (human sandbags) stand on corners to help straighten the tables as I secured the reinforcing sheet. Worked great. I just need to get some carriage bolts and shims/levelers for the legs. I should get the levelers, but that's a whole 'nother mini-project. I'll decide after I remember to see how out of level my garage floor is. Pics to follow, eventually... Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 31, 2006 Author Share Posted January 31, 2006 I found that my garage slopes ~1.1 degrees from the house to the garage door. To level I would need to shim one end's legs by ~2.75". I can do this, or, should I just lock-in at 1 degree as an approximate reference, and then shim my work on the table top? To level the legs, I was just going to flox a nut into the bottom of the legs and drill a hole to make room for a 5" hex bolt to adjust. So should I shim the table level, or shim the work level? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Shim the tables, not the work. You may forget to shim your work at the end of a long day when you want to do just one more thing. If you shim the table, you won't forget, because you won't need to shim the work. -- Len Quote -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 I used the COZY mailing list search engine to search for 'table shim' and found some good info. all the way from 1995. Here's what I got out of it: Your table should be flat, for when you need to build flat parts You can build flat parts on a table that is NOT level Never trust your table no matter how level you think it is -- always verify your critical jigs (canard and wing) and shim as necessary The more level you make your table, the less you need to shim your jigs Chances are you will always shim your jigs, or at least need to verify level I'm still thinking to get leg levelers, now from www.levelingmounts.com (or homemade), to compensate for my garage floor's 1 degree slope (2.75" over 12') so I can shim with popsicle sticks instead of scrap 2x4s. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiStefano Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 1 degree over 12' equals 2.75 inches.....Are you sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 1, 2006 Author Share Posted February 1, 2006 Good catch... I actually used 1.1 degrees over 12' which results in one end being 2.7649412507121838571828607406064" higher than the other. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 After buying, trying, exchanging, and finally getting the right bolt sizes to connect the tables, I bolted-up 3 tables last night. I have to say that this approach has proven to be 5x the work (at least), but I'm confident I'll be happy I did this at some point. I have my EAA chapter coming over on 2/20 for a visit, so I need to get my a$$ in gear! I'll try to get some pictures up sometime this weekend. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 I now have 4 tables completed, with tops in the same plane, and leveled as much as I care to right now. My conclusions from this endeavor are: It's nearly impossible to build a perfectly flat, square, and level table (at least not worth the effort). Close enough is good enough. Unless the plane of your floor is perfectly tangential to the surface of the Earth, you will need some sort of levelers under each leg. No big deal. Having a perfectly level table, and even a perfectly flat table, is not entirely necessary -- you can always shim your jigs to be perfectly level. No big deal. Assembling 4 moderately-sized tables to form a single large-sized work surface is much more difficult building a single large-sized table. Disassembling the tables to form smaller work surfaces is MUCH easier than taking a chainsaw to the large-sized tables (gotta watch out for those screws ). My only step left is to mount 1.5 sheets of particle board to the top, which requires just a bit more thinking with regards to the placement of the bolts for how to keep the design modular. Just a big PITA pie I hope to soon be happy with... Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 For anyone interested, attached are some pics of the near-final result (short of bolting the removable particle board tops down). More pics are on my Web site. Moving on to making some progess now... Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Looks pretty good, and sturdy. Are you planning on building two planes, or just doing both wings at the same time? -- Len Quote -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 Are you planning on building two planes, or just doing both wings at the same time?I'm not planning on building two planes, but not ruling it out either . The tables are 2' x 6' long, making the total size 4' x 12' -- which happens to be the high-range of the size that the Cozy plans suggest (the low end of the range is 3' x 11'). I don't think much more than a single wing will fit on the table. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 My misunderstanding, I thought they were wider. I only have one work table so far, a beautiful butcher-block one that I picked up at an auction (hoping to get a pair). It's only 2-1/2' x 6', and it will be covered with an appropriate protective top to enlarge it's size to 42" x 6'. I was only planning on having two of these, and building on that. Then again, I'm just starting and don't know what I don't know. -- Len Quote -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 42" x 12' would work, but even if you don't get another table, you can always use an auxilliary shop table. I'm having a hard time finding a buyer for a spare executive desk at work (it's huge at 45" x 7' with a glass top) so I'm starting to look at it as a potential desk/work surface for doing paper/plans work (and maybe even some small layup work). Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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