Painting Composites

[Joe Patterson]

I did a search on this, but exactly what I was looking for must be REALLY buried.

 

I wish for a Cozy with any color other than white. My preference is RED . But Pink is also one of my favorite colors( Keep You Comments about pink to yourselves).

 

I understand the reasons behind White........Heat & composites.......

However, as No4 Said , "What about being able to spot your plane in the snow, if it were to go down??????"

 

How about the underside?????

 

I would like Opinions , and feelings, I know the I will of course get the standard "The rules are", as well.

 

anyone care to give their $0.02

[mplafleur]

I'm fond of yellow. That's the color for me.

[dust]

Ok white is the coolest and black is the hotest and epoxy is thermoplastic, that is, it goes soft when heated.

 

On areas out of sunlight you are pretty safe the areas that recieve sunlight get the hotest.

 

Also epoxy keeps curing as it gets hotter.

 

These are it's basic charistics

 

heated to 100 safe to temps of 140

heated to 120 safe to temps of 160

heated to 140 safe to temps of 180

the heating can take place years apart and the temps i used are generalized, check with each mfg

 

thier are temperature colors charts and I swear, they all refer to a hot day in MICHIGAN as to what max temperature a colored surface will atain in the sunlight

 

you don't have to use white, you can use

 

linen

eggshell

WhiteSmoke

ivory

snow

antiquewhite

 

Actually you can do allot, but be careful, your gonna look at this paint job for 30 years

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

 

Hey CBARBER could you write us a disclaimer that we could add to the bottom of all posts explaining that this stuff is our memory or whatever, i think a thousand words should do it

[ekisbey]

This is another frequently asked question that is hard to find easily. It's answered several times on this forum, but I, too, had trouble finding the thread.

 

I think the rule goes something like "paint it any color you like, as long as it's white." There are a few flying MkIV's that aren't white (yellow comes to mind) but they're very few in number. There have been several analyses of surface temperature in direct sunlight on a broad range of colors, though whether any these were performed on a fiberglass-foam sandwich composite structure, and what effect said structure might have upon the heat characteristics as compared to the control material used in the tests is anyone's guess.

 

Generally, you're safest painting the areas exposed to direct sunlight white. Areas that never see direct sunlight, such as under the wings (unless you intend to park upside down ), are less critical.

 

I saw a chart somewhere a few months back showing relative surface temperatures for various colors, along with the points on the temperature chart where various materials lost strength and such... but now I can't find it. It's around here somewhere, I'll keep looking.

[Joe Patterson]

hey Dust,

i don't know if recall me telling you in our hone coversation that I used to do a lot of commercial painting in Texas...but wow how many colors of white have I painted a house, or business.

 

I couldn't wait top paint my house colorful, when I moved to the Southwest.

 

If anyone cares check out my House Pictures on my MSN photo-Album.....This will waste a lot of time.........Graphics Intense

 

http://groups.msn.com/TaosHouse/aroundthehouse.msnw

 

Pic of Kitchen is called "MountainMen Cook"

 

Back to Aircraft Paint

 

I was thinking, How often will it be exposed to sun.onlwhen flying...........if you hangar it of course.

 

I know what is best is white........Just wondering if I could pull off, some kind of Color.

[Joe Patterson]

http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy/chapter?c=25&s=5

 

Here is the color chart I beleive you are referring to.

 

Thanks to Rick Maddy.

[ekisbey]

That's the one. There's another one somewhere that shows what temperature the fiberglass loses strength, including adjustments for post-curing changes to the curve. Superimpose the two and you have what you're looking for.

 

Glad you found that, I'd been meaning to save that anyhow.

[Joe Patterson]

I have seen many darker colored boats..............made of Composite materials, and sitting in salt water.

 

I wonder if you had it covered, how many hours a year would it see the sunlight?????

 

Does the Thickness of the final paint make any difference????

[John Slade]

I'll start by saying that my plane is white, except for a little chameleon trim.

 

One point that hasn't been mentioned is that different epoxy systems have different tgs (melting point). Perhaps, if you build with MGS 285 you can move further down the color chart.

 

I've also heard talk of using reflective paint. Don't know if anyone has done that.

 

I'm just lucky I guess. I happen to like white. I'm going to have a cover made by the covergirl once I get the pattern done. I'm considering having it made in Union Jack colors.

 

>Does the Thickness of the final paint make any difference????

Yes. The thicker the paint, the faster you land.

[Joe Patterson]

Yeah, I know .........Paint it White.

 

But I have two questions:

 

1.) Where, and who came up with the color chart seen in link below?

http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy/chapter?c=25&s=5

 

2.) Anyone ever seen this picture on A.O.P.A., or a Sharp Color Aircraft?

[No4]

Here's that yellow Cozy, from the main Cozy site, photo section.

http://www.cozyaircraft.com/

The caption says it belongs to Bryan Geisler of Sun City, AZ.

 

The Cozy next to the F-16 has prominent red flashes.

I still think a bright colour is a good idea in snow covered mountains.

Does it get very hot where you are Joe?

 

regards

Adam:D

[Joe Patterson]

Adam,

At my house (8,600'MSL) it never gets above 80F. At Taos Airport Never above 95F.......but my concern would be the places I go, and can not hangar "Rising Spirit".

 

I was wondering if I could get some kind of color test done, with eithr that "Greenish-Yellow" paint in the Above Picture, or something on the "Pinkish-red" side of that spectrum.

 

I also will "Post-Cure" all the Parts made of composite, to extent the Temp range I will be safe in.

 

yes, I had seen that "Yellow Cozy" before ........Pictures of it.

[Joe Patterson]

Step 1.) I think I will paint as if The plane will be white, and after sanding the last couple of coats i will try some kind of Pinkish Color,Hopefully achieving the color aI want without to much "Darkness", or depth.

 

Step 2.) Set the painted Test piece in the Mohave Desert with Temp sensors...and monitor it.

 

I have a few friends out there..........where Hell and the Earth meets. I will find out myself in a few months, if I can't find someone who knows a better way to do a test.

[dust]

mgs or msg,always forget which, tech sheet tells you the post cure temp and the "safe" temp

 

enjoy the build

 

dust

[Richard Pryor]

What about metallic flakes? A little more weight, but wow, what sparkle!

[John Slade]

What about metallic flakes? A little more weight, but wow, what sparkle!

Especially when hit by lightning!

[Wayne Hicks]

If you read Chapter 3 and Chapter 25 carefully, you will discover that only the primary structural surfaces must be painted in white. This is usually on surfaces covering the blue wing foam since it has one of the lowest decomp temperatures of the foams we use.

 

Most of the canopy, sidewall surfaces of the fuselage, and nose can be painted in non-white colors. OF COURSE the text is quick to point out that the non-white colors are the LIGHT blues, reds, yellows, greens, and grays. Fuselage, strake, and winglet stripes are okay too. Use most any color you like on surfaces not rotuinely exposed to direct sunlight.

 

Who would want a black plane anyway? Only Hugh Hefner, Mr. Playboy Bunny himself, gets away with that one.

 

....Wayne Hicks

[yyz_ttr]

What about pearls? White with a nice blue-frost pearl would look nice.

 

All said...I'd rather have a solid white airplane than a wonderfully colored coffin any day of the week!

[Jason Heath]

What about pearls?

The biggest problem you'll find with pearls (and candies) is the uniformity of them initialy and during any repair/spot jobs if you don't know what your doing. If your a competent painter or your best friends with one, then your good to go and the midcoat of pearl will add very little to the weight but a fair bit to the price and time required to paint your plane.

 

Jack M. can probably give you some advice on the subject.

[Painter]

They dont have to be just white:envy:

 

 

Jason Raudenbush

 

www.customshooters.com

pic2small3.psd

[mxman70]

Check out www.hytechsales.com/insulating_paint_additives.html.

[brainfart]

> with low thermal conductivity of 0.1 W / m / Deg.C

 

That might be true, but since the insulating paint layer is very thin it won't insulate all that much. Basic physics. I'm not convinced.

[Wayne Hicks]

I did not research the site thoroughly, but several items caught my eye immediately that question its applicability as a top coat paint:

 

(The most important) "The painted surface will have a slight texture due to the spheres. This is a very fine texture and looks like suede. This slight texture is very effective at hiding small defects on the wall surface."

 

----> I would imagine that "texture" is not what we want as a top coat paint. Frost (the ice kind) has very little texture, yet can destroy the air flow over a wing. That is why we're to remove frost before attemting flight. I can imagine that a seude texture may do the same thing.

 

"Two coats are required for best distribution of the small spheres. Additional coats will provide better results."

 

---> Paint is weight. I've heard it said that paint can add 50 pounds to a Cozy. I'm wondering how much weight is added (a) as a result of the ceramic additives, and (b) requiring a second coat at a minimum. To me, "minimum" often means "more than what just got said."

 

"Sheen levels in paints are reduced slightly due to the texture created. Flat paints are not affected."

 

---> Who wants a dull-looking airplane?