KLS Composites - SQ2000

[mlefebvre]

It seems that most of you out there are of the COZY variety, probably cause this was hosted by the Cozy Aircraft Company up till now. I am pretty sold on the design and builder support and all but have to ask about other options out there.

 

I have stumbled upon the SQ2000 from KSL Composites and wondered if any of you have ANY experience with this company, the design, or ANY info out there other than whats posted on their website?

 

I am hoping this doesnt become a religious discussion as I know there are a couple of Velocity, Berkut, LongEZ, AeroCanard and modified Cozy builders out there, so, hopefully I can get some well rounded responses.

 

Maybe as an addition to this thread you guys could say WHY you choose the Cozy/Velocity/LongEZ/Berkut/AeroCanard/SQ2000/Etc... to build over other designs no matter which one it is?

 

Marc

[John Slade]

Hi Marc,

There's a guy on the fly rotary list, Paul Conner I think, who's building an SQ2000. It looks a lot like the Cozy, at least around the firewall section. You might ask him about it.

 

Most people on here are Cozy builders, probably because Velocity have their own forum and the other types represent a small percentage of new builds.

 

I choose the Cozy because it was plans built 4 place. Aerocad didn't have plans at that time. I didnt like the Velocity center stick. I didn't know much about the SQ2000, but prefered to go with a design that had a larger base of builders.

 

"Religion" between types shouldn't be an issue here. We're all canardians together. Appart from the occasional Velocity bashing (hi Jim - what did you say you're top speed was again? ) you won't see much of it.

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by mlefebvre

I have stumbled upon the SQ2000 from KSL Composites...

I was considering the SQ2000 before I purchased Cozy plans. Factors for me became:

 

1) It's a kit -- will they be around (KLS is already 2nd owner, I think)

2) Limited builders out there

 

I didn't have the guts. However, at first glance it looks like a very interesting plane. I saw a SQ2000 builder site last night who had very detailed pictures and narrative, better than most Cozy builder sites. You could tell the construction is rather different than that for a Cozy, but keeping with the moldless composite technique.

 

I say "go for it" if you can buy the entire kit upfront. We can setup a SQ2000-specific section here and can solicit additional SQ2000 builders.

 

Jon

[Jim Sower]

Like John S said, you might want to contact Paul Conner - sqpilot@earthlink.net who has an SQ2000 he is putting a Mazda in. Being that far along he could give you some very good info regarding builder support, number of kits in progress, kit and plans quality, etc. I first met Stan Montgomery maybe 10 or 12 years ago. He is a knowledgeable guy and works hard. Don't know how viable the company is. I like the airplane (particularly the retractable gear) but I don't like kits as much as plans built, and I couldn't comfortably fit into the SQ2000.

Talk to Paul. He's the one with actual information.

Best, Jim

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by mlefebvre

...ANY info out there other than whats posted on their website?

Check out these builder sites:

 

http://vonsquid.com/sq2000/index.htm

 

http://www.abri.com/sq2000

 

The SQ2000 building process strikes me as being built from the outside-in compared to Cozy plans.

 

Jon

[mlefebvre]

Thanks to all for the responses. I have many of the same concerns that you guys had about the SQ2000 but still am quite intrigued. I dont mind the kit build option over the scratch built providing the its a quality kit with manufacturer support. I will contact as many builders as I can find and see what the skinny is on this boat.

 

As far as your offer to add a SQ2000 forum section that would be great! Maybe it will draw them out of the wood work (or is that sanding and filling).

 

Marc

[Jim Sower]

One thing to remember about kits - they only save time on the AIRFRAME. So if you are able to complete your airframe in, say, 60% of the time it would take to build it from plans, you are now only about 30% or 40% done with the project and the rest of the work is the same, kit or plans built. So you save 40% of 30-40% or about 12% to 16% of the total construction time. Examine the relative costs and do a careful cost benefit study before you commit a lot of money.

 

Like in most things ... do the math .... Jim S.

[dust]

the math is near imposible in my book, some kits save time, some don't.

 

I am always wary of mfg claims, we know what the cozy will do from allot of independant flying, what do flyers say the sq does?

 

Most kits i know of take more time than a cozy.

 

enjoy the build

 

mike

[cncdoc]

I just wanted to throw my $.02 in..while I still have some $$$

 

The SQ2000 was the subject of much research on my part, as my choice was between the Cozy and the SQ.

I have to agree with Jim on the "math" issue. I was trying to put a cost per hour figure on the estimated build times, and I never came out ahead on the SQ, but still I wavered. (I liked the retracts) Finally I saw the support for Cozy builders, the origin of the design and the fact that it has been tweaked already by the people who care about it the most (the ones who put their butts in the seats and point the plane skyward) and who, for the most part, aren't trying to sell you something. In addition,(as I have said before) building between dips in a hot-tub and engineering naked has always appealed to me. However it is not necessary to use a hot tub or to engineer au natural when building a Cozy, but I believe it helps.

 

But that's just my opinion, not necessarily that of the management, some of my friends think I have taken leave of my senses and much more so especially upon discovery of the greenish colored "tub" which I call a fuselage, sitting harmlessly on supports in my garage. I show them the picture of what it WILL look like some day, and they look around for wings, props, plastic canopies or something that looks like the picture. Then they give my wife a half smile and a knowing look of sympathy, turn and walk away muttering and rolling their eyes. So maybe there is something to having parts lying around that LOOK like airplane parts to the untrained eye right from the get-go.

 

So...

back to work.

Kevin

[Jim Sower]

<... I liked the retracts ...>

I'm going to put Infinity retracts on my Cozy. I believe there are several other builders doing that and they are much farther along than I am.

 

At least that's the plan .... Jim S.

[mlefebvre]

One thing that attracted me to the SQ is purely asthetic(sp?) value that it is so rounded in shape and doesnt have the flat bottom and sides. Very aerodynamic looking. Almost like the front of a F-16. Probably not a very worth reason but deffinately caught my eye. I am still undecided but will continue on my quest for info.

 

Marc

[John Slade]

However it is not necessary to use a hot tub or to engineer au natural when building a Cozy

 

That's a matter of opinion. You sure save a lot on the washing, especially when you get to the sanding part. Here's the routine....Sand, get dust all over you, jump in the hot tub, soak, get out, sand some more & repeat ad nausium.

 

See http://kgarden.com/cozy/cz433.jpg

 

PS - Actually, it's "Au Naturel", "Au Natural" is when you go out naked to pick wild flowers.

 

Oh, by the way, if anyone's wondering "when is it gonna fly" there's been a short delay.... my wife wants to hold a family Christmas party on the patio, so a LOT of remodelling is in order. This is the penaly for taking over the patio for 4 years to build an airplane.

[marbleturtle]

Marc,

 

I thought about the SQ2000 as well, especially since KLS is just a few miles away from where I live.

 

I mentioned this to someone who's opinion I respect. (I won't mention his name because the company he owns does business with several Experimental kit manufacturers.) He has had the opportunity to fly many different aircraft and warned me about a couple of kit planes, the SQ2000 being one of them. It was nothing serious, like "the wings fall off after TO at which point the fuselage explodes." One thing I will repeat is that performance claims are highly suspect (a common issue with kit manufacturers) and certain verticle airfoil surfaces becoming wobbly at high speeds... (?)

 

But I'm a hard headed individual, and since the SQ2000's appearance ranks way up there on the COOLNESS factor, I decided to check them out anyway. (I too like the jet fighter shape!) I called them up to get more information and schedule a time to visit the factory. After 1 minute of talking to one of the sales representatives, all sort of red flags started poping up in the dark recesses of my mind. Our conversation was more "time-share condo sales presentation" and less "cognito ergo zoom" than I wanted. I decided to wait and just take a look at what they had on display at Oshkosh.

 

KLS was not at the airshow. Nat Puffer was. Nat puffer is definately the "cognito ergo zoom" type of person. I bought Cozy plans.

 

That said, the SQ2000 may be an excellent aircraft. It will absolutely be the most beautiful thing parked on the tarmac. But if I were you I would wait until one of the SQ2000 builders finish their aircraft before shelling out the $50k. (Several appear to be close to finished.) Try to catch a ride in one, talk to the builder, and decide for yourself. (Taking a ride in the factory demonstrator does not count!) Maybe a few years down the road, this hard headed Cozy builder will be at Rough River envying your sleek ride.

 

John!!!

 

I was down in Orlando on 12/17 standing outside in the freezing wind at 10:00am wondering if today was the day! Guess not... keep us updated. I want to fly down there first thing when you feel comfortable about giving a ride! I'll supply the Fried Pork Skins. (Where's the nearest 7-11?)

[kingbonanza]

On 12/24/2003 at 7:46 AM, marbleturtle said:

Marc,

 

I thought about the SQ2000 as well, especially since KLS is just a few miles away from where I live.

 

I mentioned this to someone who's opinion I respect. (I won't mention his name because the company he owns does business with several Experimental kit manufacturers.) He has had the opportunity to fly many different aircraft and warned me about a couple of kit planes, the SQ2000 being one of them. It was nothing serious, like "the wings fall off after TO at which point the fuselage explodes." One thing I will repeat is that performance claims are highly suspect (a common issue with kit manufacturers) and certain verticle airfoil surfaces becoming wobbly at high speeds... (?)

 

But I'm a hard headed individual, and since the SQ2000's appearance ranks way up there on the COOLNESS factor, I decided to check them out anyway. (I too like the jet fighter shape!) I called them up to get more information and schedule a time to visit the factory. After 1 minute of talking to one of the sales representatives, all sort of red flags started poping up in the dark recesses of my mind. Our conversation was more "time-share condo sales presentation" and less "cognito ergo zoom" than I wanted. I decided to wait and just take a look at what they had on display at Oshkosh.

 

KLS was not at the airshow. Nat Puffer was. Nat puffer is definately the "cognito ergo zoom" type of person. I bought Cozy plans.

 

That said, the SQ2000 may be an excellent aircraft. It will absolutely be the most beautiful thing parked on the tarmac. But if I were you I would wait until one of the SQ2000 builders finish their aircraft before shelling out the $50k. (Several appear to be close to finished.) Try to catch a ride in one, talk to the builder, and decide for yourself. (Taking a ride in the factory demonstrator does not count!) Maybe a few years down the road, this hard headed Cozy builder will be at Rough River envying your sleek ride.

 

John!!!

 

I was down in Orlando on 12/17 standing outside in the freezing wind at 10:00am wondering if today was the day! Guess not... keep us updated. I want to fly down there first thing when you feel comfortable about giving a ride! I'll supply the Fried Pork Skins. (Where's the nearest 7-11?)

I bought a SQ2000 in St Petersburg FL in May of 2018. Flew it across the country to Corona CA in 5 days, stopping to visit friends and family. It is a great flying airplane, nice and smooth. It is sure a conversation piece at the pumps when you stop for fuel. I was in no hurry to get home, so I would some times talk with people for 2 hours about the SQ. I have a climb prop on it, she climbs at 1,800 FPM very easily. Top speed is 160 knots, I'm going to put a cruse prop on some day. I am planning on flying to Copper state (Buckeye, AZ) this Feb 8 thru 10, 2019 for the airshow. If you guys are around look me up. Thanks Kevin