killerb1971

(If they gave you L285 and H340, chuck out anything you made with it even if it looks to have cured, they aren't compatible). Glad I helped you figure out what the issue was though, I suspected the moment I saw the pic of green resin. I already had the L285 resin. I ordered the hardener at the same time as the resin, but that is when I had the rude awakening about the haz mat shipping. So I decided to just drive to Spruce and pick it up. $20 round trip in my Metro! : ) Too bad I can't fit anything big in it to really save on shipping. Anyways It was only my practice layup that this happend on THANK GOD. It still cured, but it is just used as a lesson on how to apply epoxy and learn to wet out properly. It turned out nice though. I marked the location of the manifold block for the hardener pump, and removed the assembly, dumped out the hardener and completly pump flushed it with 3/4 gal of acitone. I wiped it all down and its dry as a bone and clean as can be. Then I put it all back together and Im ready to recalibrate with the RIGHT stuff this time. I am VERY greatful that you pointed that out to me. I might not have caught it and started to build bulkheads with it. That would have been a nightmare!! Speaking of bulkheads, I just got my email today from Spruce that my Ch4 and Ch5 kits shipped today!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!! I'm getting more fired up by the day. My shop is too. Its up to 80 degrees in my garage now!

I am not 100% sure about that, but I told the clerk at AC spruce that I wanted the H287s slow hardener. That is what I was billed for on my recipt. I will check the container lable closely when I get home and post back. I dont remember seeing the numbers H287S or H340S on the container anywhre, but it does say slow hardener. I hope I have the right stuff here, otherwise someone at AC spruce is going to get an earfull. I already have this in my pump and if it is wrong, I have to take it all apart and flush it out, not to mention drive all the way back there to return these and get the proper ones (and hope they accept the opened container given the circumstances), and loose a day of work on saturday, and pay the gas. I will be EXTREMELY pissed off if they gave me the wrong one. If the ratio is confirmable, i believe they did. I'll post back when I get home and confirm.[/quote @&!#@!!!!!! THEY GAVE ME THE WRONG STUFF!!!!! My recipt says 01-41006 H287S but they gave me the H340!!!! Now I have a 300mi round trip and a lost day of work to look forward to. The problem is I looked right at the container and read off the ratios, but didn't look right above the ratio to see the H340 starring me in the face. I'm glad I only opened on can. But now the OTHER problem is my pump. What the heck am I supposed to do to flush the pump out so my PROPER hardener is not contaminated? I'm not off to a good start here.

Are you really sure you have 285? Reason I ask is you say your bottles state 100:38, which is 335, and from the picture in the opening post, your mix looks decidedly light green, which as I recall from the bottles in the store is the tint of 335 hardener. 285 hardener is rather vibrant medium blue, and the mixed resin is very much a pale blue colour. Any chance what you have is 335 not 285? I am not 100% sure about that, but I told the clerk at AC spruce that I wanted the H287s slow hardener. That is what I was billed for on my recipt. I will check the container lable closely when I get home and post back. I dont remember seeing the numbers H287S or H340S on the container anywhre, but it does say slow hardener. I hope I have the right stuff here, otherwise someone at AC spruce is going to get an earfull. I already have this in my pump and if it is wrong, I have to take it all apart and flush it out, not to mention drive all the way back there to return these and get the proper ones (and hope they accept the opened container given the circumstances), and loose a day of work on saturday, and pay the gas. I will be EXTREMELY pissed off if they gave me the wrong one. If the ratio is confirmable, i believe they did. I'll post back when I get home and confirm.

Ok, I went on the MGS web page and printed out the technical data on the L285 system. It turns out that "The hardeners have the same mixing ratio and can be mixed among themselves in any ratio." It also states that the the L285 resin with any combination of mixing 285, 286, or 287 hardeners is acceptable with EITHER the 100 : 40 (+/_ 2) weight ratio OR the 100 : 50 (+/_ 2) by volume ratio. That pretty much sums it up. And its comming right from MGS. So I should be safe to add fast to my reservoir of my pump without throwing off the ratio. The one thing I still question is that my label on my slow hardener says 100 : 38 by weight, but the web site says 100 : 40. My pump is adjusted for 38 not 40 like the web page says. Am I ok or should I re-calibrate? Anyone else run into this?

Marc, I just want to clarify with you on the ratio. I have mine calibrated by weight for the slow hardener. If the fast hardener is the same weight than I should be ok to mix hardeners in the pump? I just want to be sure about this before I mess something up. Thanks

The reason I used just the slow hardener only is because I was unsure about the mixing of hardeners. Better safe than sorry. Now that I know how I can go about SAFELY playing with hardener mixtures, I will do just that. I'll need to make another run to AC Spruce East next month and get a bunch of hardener, slow and fast. For now, I'll have to deal with the slow. Thanks for the info!!

Ooops! The dimensions that I put down the wrong dimensions on the practice layup. I drew the rectangle to 10"x16" (per instructions) not 10x12. The coffee has not quite set in yet. : )

10:30am this morning when I woke up the layup is still tacky as expected with slow hardener. The garage is holding 72 degrees. I drew out the 10"x12" rectangle per instructions. I will let it finish curing the next day or so and cut the rectangle out and weigh it. I hope I am within weight tollerance. Phil had a great question. Can you accurately add fast hardener to the ratio mixture from the pump, or do you have to mix a batch seperatly on the scale? I am thinking you have to use the scale only. I am having a BLAST already and I haven't even really done anything yet. This is going to be an adventure!!

My friend Gene Knapp came over tonight to help me calibrate my Sticky Stuff adjustable epoxy pump for my MGS 285 and slow hardener. We have it as close as humanly possible +/_ .008 by weight. Anyways, I am very excited. The first practice layup was a 6 layer Bid 18"x12.5". I love that cutting wheel for the fiberglass. I don't have time to wait the 4hrs to trim, so I will wait till full cure and cut it with a coping saw, or bring it to work and use the band saw. The layup went well. No air bubbles and no epoxy ridges with the squeegie. The direction of the cloth stayed straight, no waves. I have to wait to weigh it to see if I am over on the epoxy content or not. My garage is maintaining 72 degrees and the resin box is holding 90 degrees. The garage feels warmer than the house!! : ) I will be posting regularly as I progress. Here are some pics.

That is what I planned on starting out with, 2 gallons. I have another question about switching epoxy systems. What is the proceedure for introducing the different resin and hardener to the epoxy pump? Do I have to dismantle the whole pump and clean it completely, or is it safe to add the new material to the remainder of residual hardener and resin from the old system? Thanks for the help.

What are the average shelf lives of hardeners and resins? Aproximately how much should I need on hand for chapters 4 thru 7....ball park? I appreciate everyone clearing up my misunderstanding. Now that I know that I am not married to MGS epoxy, it makes me feel better. I think I will use the gal of MGS 285 that I have, then give another system a try. There are alot of people raving about several different systems. Is it pretty much a "try it and see how you like it" type thing? Is it normal for people to experiment with several systems while building their plane, just to see if they like another one better? Just curious.

I was not aware of that. I remember from researching fabric covering a while back (i know thats comparing apples to oranges) that you should never mix two systems. I guess I just assumed that building structural parts of an airplane that there could be chemical bond incompatabilities when joining pieces from different layups using different systems. I should have done more research. This is why I am a "new guy". I'm still learning. I'll check into the other systems and make up my mind this week what I will do. I appreciate everyones help and advice. Its ALWAYS welcome!!

I already have a gallon of 285 resin and I would NEVER mix 2 systems on a plane. It would be a shame to loose that money. AC spruce isn't that far to drive to to get it over the counter if I need more. Its about 2.5 hrs or so from me. I drive a 3cyl geo metro, so the gas wont hurt too bad. I think I will just deal with the small inconvenience.

I already have a gallon of 285 resin and I would NEVER mix 2 systems on a plane. It would be a shame to loose that money. AC spruce isn't that far to drive to to get it over the counter if I need more. Its about 2.5 hrs or so from me. I drive a 3cyl geo metro, so the gas wont hurt too bad. I think I will just deal with the small inconvenience.

Well.....Its official. I just got off the phone with AC Spruce customer service and they said the DOT law is enforced on the MGS 287 slow hardener. There is a $45 charge for special hazardous material packaging PER QUART!!!! Then there is shipping on top of that. I think I will just pick it up myself. I can even fill up my Dodge truck, drive over there, pay the sales tax, eat lunch, and still come out cheaper. That's SAD!! Its a quart of hardener and they are treating it as if it were PLUTONIUM!!!!

I have these posted on other threads because I didn't see this one. I figured I should have it here for others to possibly get ideas from. It is done on the cheap, but it works great. I thing that is the whole idea for us on a budget. The cloth cabinet can be made of just about the cheapest 4' X 8' sheets you can find. I used the compressed cardboard type material because it is only $16 a sheet at Home Depot. It is heavy, but smooth surfaced. I used it on my work bench top layer over the plywood as well because it is cheap and disposable if it gets ruined. The cloth cabinet uses rigid castors and wooden round dowels to roll the cloth. The castors allow you to smoothly pull the cloth without distortion. See attached pics. The dimensions are 5' high, 4' wide, and 18" deep. The door is hinged at the bottom and has hinged legs on the face that fall down as the door is open. They are cut to make the table level when it is folded out. This gives you a HUGE 4' X 5' cutting table. The resin "hot box" is an old roll around tool cabinet that has been gutted and hung on the wall, and lined with styrofoam with a particle board door made from left over material from the cloth cabinet. The temperature controller is an adjustable stand alone baseboard heater thermostat. It is 120v and can be wired into a plug and simply pluged in to the wall, or in my case the power strip on the side of the box. It has an adjustable thermostat control dial with temp numbers on it. The controller can be purchased at any hardware store. I got this one from Home Depot. The controller is wired to a simple light fixture like that found in a garage in the cieling. The thermometer setup is a battery operated indoor/outdoor remote combo package found at any hardware store or even Wall Mart (where I got this one) It has a small remote unit that you place in the cabinet (i have mine on the pump right below the tubs). It reads the inside temp and has a digital display. It sends the signal by remote to the unit hung on the outside of the door which displays both the reading from inside the cabinet and the outside (shop) ambient temp. You kill two birds with one stone. You get the accurate reading of your resin, and a reading of your shop temp to make sure both are up to parr. This thermometer allows you to calibrate your thermostat controller inside the box to hold your temps where you need them. My box holds 85 degrees with no fluctuations. The page will not allow me to duplicate my pics here, so I'll give you the threads they are posted on. You can just type these titles in the "search" box. The first is "pics of my shop setup", and the other is "cabinet for fiberegalss". I thought this might give some potential builders some ideas. Good luck and happy building!!!

I am an industrial maintenance technician. I work on robots, progam PLC's, elctrician work, custom fabrication, welding, mechanic work, and a bunch of other fun stuff. Now I am setting out to build an airplane!!! I LOVE a good challenge!

I was quoted $175 for truck freight shipping by Wicks. They said no gound carrier (Fed Ex, UPS, DHL, etc) was allowed to carry the 285 slow hardener due to the Haz Mat laws from the DOT. They can ship the resin with no problem. I never bothered to check with AC Spruce to get a quote because I figured it should be the same. I wonder why they said that. There is a possibility that the "law" only applies to the 285 hardener. You are using the 335. I will call them to verify and post back. As for the prices. Check out the prices on the web sites between AC Spruce and Wicks. There is a HUGE jump in price! Wicks is an average of $100 more per kit for the same material!!!! I think chapter 4 was $640 at Wicks and $520 at AC Spruce. I think I will be using strictly Spruce from now on. They are only a couple hours drive away, and most items are shipped in the next day on ups ground.

The economy does not effect my drive to build. As others have said...If i need more money, I will go make it. I do alot of mechanic side work, fixing vehicles, building engines etc. It makes the money when I need it. The Cozy Girrrls will be my source of all pre fab parts as they are needed. You can count on that. You have built a great reputation among the canard community, and even came recomended by my friend and fellow EAA member Gene Knapp. Everyone raves at the quality of your work. That is becoming a rare thing in this country. Keep up the great work. I will be seeing you when the time comes. I also thank you for your advice.

I will have the Fein by spring. I just can't squeeze it right now. Like most of us, I'm working on a rediculously tight budget. Sometimes I wonder what the heck made me think I could afford to build this, but like any dedicated builder/pilot........we tend to make things happen one way or another. I think the order of priority goes something like.......(1) airplane/flying, (2) food, (3) shelter, (4) clothing.....etc. : )

I just posted some pics of my shop setup for anyone needing some ideas. Its not perfect, not high dollar, but it is effective. If anyone has any questions feel free to email or post back. Other pics are under "general and prebuild" titled "pics of my shop setup" Now its time to get building. I hope the chapter kits get here this week.

Yes there is plenty of room. I have the entire 2 car garage to myself. I do have to thank my wife for giving up her space for the next 7-10 years. The lighting is simply 6 two bulb flourescent light fixtures from Home Depot. They are $9 each plus bulbs. Cheap but effective! I'll post some more pics just in case anyone else needs ideas.

I'll add some more outlets to the bench this week. Thanks for the tip! The 2 floor heaters are keeping it at 74 degrees. What is the recomended temp for the hot box using MGS epoxy? I have it at about 85 degrees right now, and it holds that temp even on 17 degree nights. I had it warmer, but I didn't want it to be set too high. I appreciate all your help and advice. Thanks,

The shop is pretty much complete with the exception of a few tools, like the Fein. But those things as they say can come in time. I am ready to start as soon as I run to AC Spruce to get my hardener, and my chapter kits come in. I have 2 1500w radiator type heaters (one has a digital, programable thermostat), 2 wall thermometers, a de-humidifier, cloth cabinet, hot box, 4'X12" work bench, misc hand tools, 48" level, 24" level, and 6 flourescent light fixtures. This was all done on the cheap. The whole idea was to make it efficient and functional.