John Slade

I'll second what Joe had to say here. Direct communication will help all of us. Jim. We have a builder here on the forum who's having real problems with his first order and is anxious to get started. He's been told it will take 3 weeks to get what I believe is a replacement shipment. These days practically ANYTHING can be got almost ANYWHERE overnight. Can you do something to help him?

Steve, Sorry to read of you're troubles. Been there. Done that. (but only with a small order). I have one word for you. 800-221-9425

Joe, It's a long time ago now, but I bought my peel ply from Wicks. The rolls of 2 inch are handy, but mostly I used the sheet stuff cut as needed. So maybe I could have saved $10 driving around for a couple of hours and buying it locally. Not worth the hassle IMHO. You don't use that much of the stuff unless you're planning to peel ply EVERYTHING (PPE) which is definately is NOT my recommendation. Standing back, making room for the PPE crowd to make their arguments...

I'd promised to start on the FAA paperwork this week, so I spent a couple of hours working on it last night. I pretty much have it done, but I'm not going to mail it until the engine is running. Once the engine starts I'll probably drive the paperwork down to the FSDO to save a day. There's a nice cover letter on the EAA web site which lists everything you have to include in the package you send to the FSDO, or have ready for the inspection. I've never been one for forms, but this stuff looks pretty simple. I picked up a digital scale (Char WILL be pleased), a battery for the smart level (I don't trust the spirit method), some plugs (finally found them at Discount Auto), a K&N #1004 oil filter (friends don't let friends fly Fram), and some gas (hi-test $1.89/gal) for the right tank. While at the auto store I also picked up a manual oil pressure gauge ($12.89 complete with line and fittings). I don't want to run the engine until I know I have oil pressure, so I installed the gauge by the firewall for temporary use until my Westach gauge gets fixed. Hmmm. I can't see the gauge while cranking the engine from the front. I climbed in the back and hot-wired the plane so I can operate the master solenoid, the starter and the essential bus override from temporary switches by the firewall. I can now turn on the master and crank the engine. Once the engine starts I can turn off the master, but keep the engine running off the essential bus. This way killing the essential bus will kill the EFI computer and stop the engine. Tomorrow I'll hot-wire the fuel pump as well so I can kill this quickly if necessary. I cranked the engine from the back and watched the oil pressure gauge. After a couple of turns I get 20 - 30 psi. OK. I put the new plugs in except one which I grounded and watched for a spark while the computer was on and the engine turning. No spark. You're supposed to see a visible spark - right? Since I have no spark I didn't bother checking the fuel. I checked for power at the coils. Yep. Looks like I'm going to have to recheck all the EC2 wiring, and my EC2 manual is at home. Total time - 3 hours including the shopping. This is day seven, so I decided I could rest. Plan for tomorrow Take intercooler and pipes back to Charlie for welding Check EC2 wiring / fault test instructions Take Tracy's phone number to hangar reweigh using new scale plumb bob and chalk thing to check the fuselage stations tidy up and label some loose spare wires behind panel and at firewall order 90 degree al cast from turbonetics for turbo intake order 2 * 2.25 silicone sections and 4 clamps engine start attempt #2 ? Later get ac pipes from breakers yard? make AL pipe from the condenser to the drier.

Today I reached a milestone. I did an engine start.... attempt. The engine didnt start, but it COULD have. This counts as a milestone, right? I got to the hangar a bit late. I picked up the intercooler and turbo pipes from the welder (not finished, but I needed them for weight and balance). I'd left the scales on overnight to avoid jacking the plane off to recalibrate them. I didn't have enought weights to keep the nose positive, so I tied the weights to a wire and hung it from the pitot tube way at the front. Still not enough, so I duct taped a battery on there as well. I ended up with 41lb of weights hanging from the pitot. I double checked the levels with a spirit level (if that's ok, Joe). My smart level battery died. I dont trust the UPS scale under the nose, so I plan to get a new scale and redo the numbers one more time. I noted the dry empty weight numbers, then put the back seats, headrests and cushions back in the plane. The numbers I really want are with seats and fluids, so I grabbed my container of GTX and added 6 qts of oil. No leaks. This is good. With about 1/2 full showing on the dipstick I filled the oil filter and poured oil down the pipes until it wouldnt go any more. Following instructions from someone on the fly rotary list I turned the prop backward, then added more oil down the pipes to prime the pump. Since it was Saturday, Paul was watching with interest from his "director's" chair. I removed the redrive supply and asked him to tell me when oil came out, then went to the front and craked the starter. After a couple of turns of the engine Paul shouted "Stop" very loudly. When I went to the back I realized why he'd shouted so loudly - the pipe was pointing directly at him, and the spurt of oil had failed to reach him by about a foot. One more turn of the engine.... The Westach oil pressure gauge doesn't seem to be working right. It reads 100PSI before the engine turns, then dips a bit when I crank. I checked the wiring and it seems correct. I removed the sensor head. Now it reads 60PSI whether the engine is cranking or not, so I need to contact Westach about it. Now it was time to add water. I poured a gallon of coolant into the expansion chamber and listended while it bubbled its way through the system. Next I added most of a gallon of water. (I plan to use a 50/50 mix). I noticed a drip from the water pump to radiator connection. I tried to tighten it with my pipe wrench without success, so I went to harbor freight and bought their set of enormous wrenches. The closest was 1 7/8 which is 1/16 too big, but good enough. I tightened it more, but still couldnt get the drip to go away. I removed the fitting and found that the seating on the male al fitting welded to the water pump seems to be a bit uneven. I hope I don't have to remove the water pump to fix this. I also noticed a slight drip at the welded water return pipe from the turbo. At least this one's easy to remove and fix. With the basic fluids in the plane I leveled the plane, put the cowl and prop back on and read the scales again. I now have the basic weights. I still have to the plumb bob and chalk thing to check the fuselage stations. I kinda installed the plugs. The special ones I'd ordered per Ed Andersons recommendation are obviously for a 2nd gen. They're too short, so the nut part disapears into the cavity and you cant get at it to tighten it. I got them as tight as I could. Moving on, I got my 5 gal plastic fuel container with hi-test gas in it, added 5 oz of 2 stroke and poured it into the left tank. I can see now that I need to hook up my car fuel pump to a pipe so I can fuel the plane from the car tank. I've always thought I'd do this. Now I know for sure. Adding fuel from jugs is a pain. With the fuel in I turned on the pump. It buzzed a bit then stopped. I think the left battery is totally dead. I put it on charge and tried again. This time I got a better noise, but no indication of fuel pressure. It was getting late, and I was tired, but I was determined to at least do an engine start attempt. Checking the location of the fire extinguisher I turned on the computer, injector and coil switches, then cranked the engine. Ning, ning, ning, ning, ning, ning, ning, ning, ning, ning. You get the picture. Ah well. Tomorrow is debugging day. total time - 7 hours. Plan for tomorrow Get new plugs (stock '93 RX7) Get new smart level battery (9v) Get new scale for the nose wheel plumb bob and chalk thing to check the fuselage stations. tidy up and label some loose spare wires behind panel and at firewall Check ignition / spark at plugs / fuel pressure at rail Engine start attempt # 2 Plan for Monday Take intercooler and pipes back to Charlie for welding order 90 degree al cast from turbonetics for turbo intake order 2 * 2.25 silicone sections and 4 clamps Later get ac pipes from breakers yard? make AL pipe from the condenser to the drier.

Hi Bob, PL can ignore it, but that doesn't really matter because he's building a backwards plane anyway. At least I THINK he's building something. It's not worth arguing with the guy once he's made his mind up, which he did many years ago on issues like NACA scoops and electric water pumps. I take the ACRE list for what I can get from it, which isnt very much. Paul doesnt seem to want input unless it agrees with what he's already said. I'm glad you posted that link. I plan to try the corner things and the belly vortex generators after I've tried without. I'll report the differences. As you said privately, the effect may well be different on a Cozy with a wider belly, and there may be a drag penalty. But - maybe there's a free lunch waiting here.... Thanks for what you're doing out there.

Which epoxy system was that, Steve? I use MGS 335. My hardener lid has been fairly loose for years. Sometimes I've left it off altogther. I live in S. Florida where the humidity is pratically tangible. Never had any problem with "jello" hardener other than a bit of crytalization which can be remedied by heating.

The hose shop got the last word, in more ways than one. I spent more on fittings than I got back last time, and the hose guy told me I can't use braided teflon for freon, so I'm back to square 1 with the two flexible hoses, plus I have to make a short AL pipe from the condeser to the drier. It gets worse. Jim Sower sent me some info I didn't like the sound of, (this time about air conditioning so I stopped at an automotive AC shop and had a long chat with the owner, Tom. Tom built his own 1000HP drag racer, so he's a kindred spirit of sorts. He confirmed what Jim said, and added a few titbits of his own. I learned a lot about automotive AC today, none of it good in terms of getting my system running. I'll add more to the AC section in my web page, but in short I have to use 134 refrigerant. This stuff is just dyeing to leak Tom thinks my AN fittings might hold it, but he's pretty sure that my pipe thread connections won't. The system has to be evacuated for 45 min to get rid of the moisture before it can be filled. The pump for this is fairly small, but once the system is filled he has to lug a "freon recovery" unit the size of a welding machine if something needs to be changed. I need about 8oz of special polyol oil spread evenly around the system first, and I can't install the drier until immediately before charging the system. By the way, if ever you're AC system in the car goes warm, turn it off. The freon carries the lubrication oil, and if the freon's gone, the oil doesn't travel and the compressor gets ruined. Compressors are $400+. I can't use anything except aluminum or special barrier hoses, so I have to go back to the breakers yard to scavenge hoses, but I dont know if flared AN fittings will seal the ends. AC fittings are ENORMOUS. Aghhh! Anyway, I got my new o rings and the special oil and headed on to the hangar wondering if this AC thing was such a good idea after all....I think I'll put the AC system on the back burner for now. Cutting the u-bends for the turbo went fairly well. This is one of those chicken and egg jobs. You need to have the pipes in place to figure out where to cut them - but you cant put them in place until after you cut them. I snuck up on the solution by cutting way too big, then cutting closer and closer to the best point. Cutting a 2 inch pipe takes 10 seconds with a band saw. I routed the pipe under the back of the engine mount, ended up with a nice fit, taped everything with masking tape and took the pipes to Charlie for welding. I installed the plenum to turbo scat hose with some difficulty. It'll do for ground run-up, but I need a 2.25 AL 90 degree casting and a couple of silicone sections like I did on the outlet to do it properly. I remade the overflow bottle mount for a tighter fit and screwed it to the firewall. The bottle now sits securely, but I safety wired the whole thing, just to be sure. Now I'm wondering where to send the overflow outlet. Into the plenum? Maybe I don't want to pressurize the overflow bottle. Hmmmm. Same is true of the oil breather outlet. Out the back of the cowl? Maybe this will create a vacuum and suck all my oil out of the breather. Hmmmm. If you know the answers to these questions, and are reading this today, please send me an email - sladerj at bellsouth dot net. Next I laid the upper cowl in place, stuck the prop and spiner on loosely, put the canard in place, and cleaned all the cr.p off the wings. The latter took the most time. The excellent 1000lb scales I rented from Chuckthedog (on this list) came out of their boxes. Thanks, Chuck! You turn them on with no weight on them to zero and calibrate them, then lower the plane onto them. Not as easy as it sounds. Jacking the plane up one wheel at a time is a pain. The hangar has a screw jack attached to a stand. I put this under the inner wing attach points with foam to protect the wing, then sat under the plane and screwed. I've heard this is what they do at fly-ins. With both main wheels on the scales I put my table under the lower cowl to catch the plane if it tipped back, then put my UPS scale under the nose. Bottom line - 1260lb bare empty weight (plus the weight of the absent intercooler pipe). About 20lb negative weight on the nose with the longerons level. I'm up 50lb from last time I weighed it, so I'm definately achieving something. Tonight I'm going to read up on weight & balance in the Cozy Pilot Handbook. No, I didnt get to the FAA paperwork yet. Paperwork isnt one of my favorite things. When I hear noise, I'll fill forms - OK? Total time today - 8 hours - 6 at the hangar Plan for Tomorrow Don't read email in the morning Collect welded turbo pipe and install Weight & balance Take the plane off the scales tidy up and label some loose spare wires behind panel and at firewall add fluids (following the detailed instruction for priming the oil and burping the coolant which I got from the fly rotary list) dont forget the 2 -stroke oil in the gas start engine??? Later: order 90 degree al cast from turbonetics order 2 * 2.25 silicone sections and 4 clamps get ac pipes from breakers yard? make AL pipe from the condenser to the drier.

>>Currently, I'm planning a somewhat special >>top/side-view annunciator to replace several devices. > > Sounds excellent! Sounds like a potential product! I've been tinkering with visual information to display. Some things like RPM are easily represented there. Things like fuel pressures/flows could be done that way too, but might be harder to "scan". But I also intend to include warnings such as gear up/down, etc. >>a simple wet/dry sensor in the >>sump. If your sump starts running dry, you can start warning like >>crazy before you run into an actual outage event. > > How is that done? About what you'd expect. You have a separate fuel level sensor in the sump, just not a complex one. A simple air gap capacitor, could be two sheets of aluminum with some insulating spacers, mounted about 2/3 up the wall of the sump. If there's ever air there, you're about to run out of fuel. A comparator, which again is all of a $0.50 circuit, could be used to trigger a logic 0/1 output to drive a warning light, buzzer, voice warning, or any combo of the three. >>Not a bad idea, I was just hoping to avoid another flame war. > > You won't tend to get flamed in the forum. People are much more > open, and the "old ones" havent figured out how to access the new > medium yet. > > With you're permission I'll post our emails on this and see if we > can get some useful input. I'd be grateful. Regards, Chad

Hi Chad. Interesting stuff. > I suppose one thing you could do to address this issue is draw as > much as possible from the tank that requires the return solenoid > to be energized. On a long cross country this would be good procedure. On short local flights, just use the fuel from the non energized side. > 2. The solenoid fails during a switch. Is this a break-before-make > device? I think I checked this when I got it, but I'll remove it and check again. This is important information to have. > It would be interesting to know if there is some middle state > where fuel can flow to BOTH output ports, or if fuel could flow to > NEITHER. right. I'll check and let you know. > 3. The solenoid becomes clogged. Does it have the same > cross-sectional flow area that a manual valve has? Yes. It's pretty big. No problem there, I think. > I've been thinking about two things. First, I might try to get > some fuel pressure sensors from a junkyard on-the-cheap. Instead > of wiring those to actual pressure gauges, I'd just use them with > a simple interface circuit (comparator, probably $0.50 of parts) > to drive a logic level on/off output that could be wired to a > warning light on the annunciator panel. That is, if a > side is on and fuel ain't flowing, turn on the light. And vice- > versa. Sounds like a good idea. > I'd love to see the picture. I'll send a link when it posts > Currently, I'm planning a somewhat special > top/side-view annunciator to replace several devices. Sounds excellent! Sounds like a potential product! > a simple wet/dry sensor in the > sump. If your sump starts running dry, you can start warning like > crazy before you run into an actual outage event. How is that done? > Not a bad idea, I was just hoping to avoid another flame war. You won't tend to get flamed in the forum. People are much more open, and the "old ones" havent figured out how to access the new medium yet. With you're permission I'll post our emails on this and see if we can get some useful input.

John Slade wrote: >>I've pestered you with questions on your fuel system plumbing > > Its not pestering. Its thought provoking. Thank you. =) Then I'll keep, ah, provoking you. > I agree. Two issues here. Tank pressure and fuel starvation. > 1. Tank pressure. > My catastropic tank failure was due to a blocked vent in worst > possible conditions - i.e. zero consumption, max cross return. > This is very unlikely in any flight condition. Keep the vent free > (I added a wire mesh cap) and I think we're safe from this one. I agree. This is the sort of thing that could happen if a vent clogged anyway, even without this type of setup, so the traditional means of addressing it are still OK. Double-venting helps. > 2. Fuel starvation > First prevention mode is pilot procedure. e.g. I plan to draw > and return from the right tank most of the time during local > flying. For long cross country I'll swap every hour, so this is > the danger area. Obvoiusly I plan to keep an eye on fuel levels > after the switch. This is drummed in habit anyway. Worst case I > can think of is that I dont notice the crossfeed, the > left tank goes dry and the right tank overflows from the vent. > Engine quits. Emergency procedure item # 1 = switch on both pumps. > Engine picks up again, and I have a full tank to fly home on. > Can you think of a worse case? I'm not sure, but I'll think about it. The nice part of having to deal with a return is that you can so quickly purge/prime an air-charged system. Just get ANY fuel flowing and the pressure will drive all the air out in a second or two. You might be restarting instead of letting the engine restart itself, but that's not the end of the world. I suppose one thing you could do to address this issue is draw as much as possible from the tank that requires the return solenoid to be energized. That way your failure mode has you falling back to the tank with more fuel in it. To break this down, the instigators of a problem that I can think of are: 1. The solenoid fails into an unintended position. 2. The solenoid fails during a switch. Is this a break-before-make device? It would be interesting to know if there is some middle state where fuel can flow to BOTH output ports, or if fuel could flow to NEITHER. If the device jammed mid-switch (maybe a seal breaks and jams it?), making both sounds bad because you have no control over the return and it'll flow to the path of least resistance. But breaking both is worlds worse because now you have NO return line. Your fuel pressure gauge, if you're watching it, should be an immediate indicator that this has happened, you'll probably start running rich really fast, and all sorts of bad things can happen. I guess the biggest danger is fire if your fuel system plumbing can't take the sudden pressure surge before you kill the pump, and sprays fuel into the engine compartment. 3. The solenoid becomes clogged. Does it have the same cross-sectional flow area that a manual valve has? If so, anything that would clog it should have been picked up much earlier. So I suppose the worst case is a jam of some sort. To address this, it might be a good idea to have a double-pressure (80psi?) relief valve somewhere plumbed directly to one of the tanks. You can have this with a manual valve, too, of course, but you get warnings that it might be about to happen, and you can also jiggle it to see if you can get it into one or the other states. Obviously, this only applies if the device is break-before-make. >>What I was wondering is if there was a way to SIMPLY create a >>checks/balances mechanism for the return flow. > > I'd like to do something on this, but haven't come up with a good, > inexpensive idea. My solution for now is to keep a damn close eye on it. I've been thinking about two things. First, I might try to get some fuel pressure sensors from a junkyard on-the-cheap. Instead of wiring those to actual pressure gauges, I'd just use them with a simple interface circuit (comparator, probably $0.50 of parts) to drive a logic level on/off output that could be wired to a warning light on the annunciator panel. That is, if a side is on and fuel ain't flowing, turn on the light. And vice-versa. The second is the above emergency-return. Let me know how your solenoid works, because it may be irrelevant. > Not too bad. I got one from Vans for < $100. You only need one on > the left return, but would it register pressure on a free return? Yeah, it would pretty much always register pressure, at least atmospheric. Most of the cheaper devices are "absolute". But a comparator circuit from a 555 timer or op amp is really easy to make, and could be used to create a level-set trigger that only turns on above a certain point. >>if the return line >>has enough pressure near the tank to trigger a good indication. > > Right. I doubt that it would. Perhaps some sort of flow sensor. It's tricky. It might have enough just past the solenoid, for instance, especially if the diameter of the return line is small enough. The pressure drop wouldn't really start kicking in until you got close to the tank. For safety, I'd be putting this right after the solenoid, maybe even on a T from the solenoid's output port. > Hmmm. The returns are hidden right at the back of the cockpit. >You'd have to pipe the left return forward, then back again. Not a >good solution. Need something that'll alert you automatically. I >REALLY like my LED annunciator / voice alert system. Cheap and >effective. Since you're designing you're panel, consider an LED >annunciator top center built into the glare shield as > I did. Take no space, costs $10 and is fun to do. (note: I have a > recent picture of it in the camera. I'll post it shortly.) Also - > I recently added a white print on clear tape label showing the > failure items with car like icons for quick identification. I'd love to see the picture. Currently, I'm planning a somewhat special top/side-view annunciator to replace several devices. The design is to create a panel with a pictorial representation of the Cozy, and various pieces of information in their relevant locations. For example, I'd have a small RPM display right where the prop is. LEDs would show fuel pump activity, and these would be located in the wing tanks on the picture. You get the idea. It would be rather large - 4"x4" or so - and would consume panel space, but I think it would be worth it. And since it would replace several instruments I think space won't be a problem. The reason behind this is that my plane will be wired with CANbus, a communications bus designed for automotive use and all sorts of critical communications networks. My annunciator panel will be a bridge between the primary and backup busses, so it will have access to all of this data (fuel pressures, RPMs, etc.) > How about a simple low fuel warning on the left tank? I don't have > one, but they're not too expensive or hard to install. Put it at, > say 1/4 tank. If the solenoid fails, AND you're running the left > tank, you'll get a warning (voice in my case) before the engine > quits. > > Am I missing anything here? No, that third piece is a good idea. I must not have been thinking straight - I'm going to have fuel-level sensing anyway. Might as well add this. You know, another interesting way to address this is a simple wet/dry sensor in the sump. If your sump starts running dry, you can start warning like crazy before you run into an actual outage event. Still beats a header tank. > Y'know it might be a good idea to move this discussion to a public > forum (canardzone.com/forum for example). We might get some good > thoughts, suggestions or possible failure modes we havent thought > of. What do you think? Not a bad idea, I was just hoping to avoid another flame war. 90% of the responses to this (admittedly recurring) topic are "just use a header" or "just use a facet transfer pump". I didn't want to waste time on that. =) Regards, Chad

Hello Chad, > I've pestered you with questions on your fuel system plumbing Its not pestering. Its thought provoking. Thank you. > seems to me that the most critical with your > layout is having the return solenoid fail and you end up > returning to a tank you don't expect. I agree. Two issues here. Tank pressure and fuel starvation. 1. Tank pressure. My catastropic tank failure was due to a blocked vent in worst possible conditions - i.e. zero consumption, max cross return. This is very unlikely in any flight condition. Keep the vent free (I added a wire mesh cap) and I think we're safe from this one. 2. Fuel starvation First prevention mode is pilot procedure. e.g. I plan to draw and return from the right tank most of the time during local flying. For long cross country I'll swap every hour, so this is the danger area. Obvoiusly I plan to keep an eye on fuel levels after the switch. This is drummed in habit anyway. Worst case I can think of is that I dont notice the crossfeed, the left tank goes dry and the right tank overflows from the vent. Engine quits. Emergency procedure item # 1 = switch on both pumps. Engine picks up again, and I have a full tank to fly home on. Can you think of a worse case? > What I was wondering is if there was a way to SIMPLY create a > checks/balances mechanism for the return flow. I'd like to do something on this, but haven't come up with a good, inexpensive idea. My solution for now is to keep a damn close eye on it. > Fuel pressure sensors can be expensive Not too bad. I got one from Vans for < $100. You only need one on the left return, but would it register pressure on a free return? > if the > return line > has enough pressure near the tank to trigger a good indication. Right. I doubt that it would. Perhaps some sort of flow sensor. > Or maybe a simple sight gauge with a trapped ball Hmmm. The returns are hidden right at the back of the cockpit. You'd have to pipe the left return forward, then back again. Not a good solution. Need something that'll alert you automatically. I REALLY like my LED annunciator / voice alert system. Cheap and effective. Since you're designing you're panel, consider an LED annunciator top center built into the glare shield as I did. Take no space, costs $10 and is fun to do. (note: I have a recent picture of it in the camera. I'll post it shortly.) Also - I recently added a white print on clear tape label showing the failure items with car like icons for quick identification. back to you're question... > Have you given this concept any thought? Oh yea, but I must admit that I'd moved on. I'm glad you brought it back to mind. > Your system is extremely elegant in that it minimizes the parts > involved, reduces the plumbing in the cockpit area, and allows a > cross-feed, all things I'd like to do. Thanks. Don't forget the redundancy issue. Redundant tanks, pumps & filters is nice. Few single failure modes. > The only alternative I can come up with that keeps a mix of both > worlds (I hate the facet pump idea) is to use the pumps to select > the source, and use the plans fuel valve for the RETURN instead of > the FEED. The manual valve would give you final > control/identification of where the return goes. But I'd > like to avoid this if I can address the safety issue. This would work, but you're just as likely to forget to switch as you are to get a solenoid failure How about a simple low fuel warning on the left tank? I don't have one, but they're not too expensive or hard to install. Put it at, say 1/4 tank. If the solenoid fails, AND you're running the left tank, you'll get a warning (voice in my case) before the engine quits. Am I missing anything here? > (Working on the instrument panel, and dreaming of the future) Keep on dreaming. It's the journey, not the destination (says someone who's almost there). Y'know it might be a good idea to move this discussion to a public forum (canardzone.com/forum for example). We might get some good thoughts, suggestions or possible failure modes we havent thought of. What do you think? Regards, Keep thinking. Keep asking questions. John

Chad robinson & I have been discussing fuel return issues in private messages. With Chad's permission I'm posting the discussion here in case anyone has thoughts, comments or suggestions. __________________________________________________________________ John, I've pestered you with questions on your fuel system plumbing in the past, so I hope you'll tolerate another. I've been toying with ideas on various failure modes and it seems to me that the most critical with your layout is having the return solenoid fail and you end up returning to a tank you don't expect. If you're low on fuel you might not notice this with a balance shift in time to catch it. What I was wondering is if there was a way to SIMPLY create a checks/balances mechanism for the return flow. Fuel pressure sensors can be expensive, so I hate to litter them about, but it might be a good solution if the return line has enough pressure near the tank to trigger a good indication. Or maybe a simple sight gauge with a trapped ball that would be pushed against one end of the gauge if fuel was flowing that way. Have you given this concept any thought? Your system is extremely elegant in that it minimizes the parts involved, reduces the plumbing in the cockpit area, and allows a cross-feed, all things I'd like to do. The only alternative I can come up with that keeps a mix of both worlds (I hate the facet pump idea) is to use the pumps to select the source, and use the plans fuel valve for the RETURN instead of the FEED. The manual valve would give you final control/identification of where the return goes. But I'd like to avoid this if I can address the safety issue. Regards, Chad #1147 (Working on the instrument panel, and dreaming of the future)

Oops. I tell a lie. Paul did publish my comments. Things are improving in the ACRE list.

Yep. Paul said these tests don't mean "beans" and that the bottom line is further pressure measurements. I sent a post to the list: Paul responded privately accusing me of trying to make trouble. I replied ,but he won't publish that either. Pity. There are a lot of experts on that list who would LOVE to discuss such issues as water pumps and NACA scoops openly and without censorship. I wish they'd come over here.

There are all type out there, Joe. In the pilot world, just like any other. "Non Illegitimus Carburundum"... i.e. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Yea. Lighten up, Joe. All questions are welcome here, and WILL get answers if possible, despite what one (and only one, I think) member might say. One of Marc's biggest complaints about this forum is that it lacks quality content. That's changing, and you're questions only help to change it more quickly. Marc's suggestions to RTFM only go to restrict quality content increase. While I understand his point that you DO have to read and research, restricting new builder questions doesn't make any sense to me. While on this subject, I have a suggestion. Dust recently asked me to clean out his "chatter" from my launch count-down. Chatter is good because it lightens the tone of the whole forum and I for one like that, but we don't need it in the database. How about a simple text note on the bottom of any "chatter" message you're about to post. Simply "DNA" (do not archive) would do. Jon or I could do a weekly search for DNA and delete these messages. Simple. I guess Jon could program this in, but the DNA code would work for now.

I arrived at the hangar at 9am. I tend to do fiberglass work first so it has chance to cure while I'm busy with other stuff. The intercooler duct needed modification. That compressor bit me again. The 2.5 inch air pipe to the throttle body was too close to the compressor, so I had to "move" the duct about an inch forward, which meant moving the inlet connection to the plenum. Anything made of fiberglass can be adjusted. I cut off the end of the duct, built a blue foam plug to extend it an inch, and reattached it with 2 ply BID. I was done by 10am, but I had some epoxy left. Hmmm. I've been meaning to add a duct on the lower cowl to help smooth the air flow out of the back. I could use the excess epoxy to make a flat layup that could be bent and tailored to fit above the radiator. I looked around the hangar for something flat to do the layup on. A piece of glass, acrylic or aluminum would do. I couldn't find anything big enough and was about to use the wood table top when I had a thought.... I really want a curved shape for the outlet duct. Since it's ducting air, an airfoil shape would make sense. I happen to have a nice smooth airfoil shape readily available - my wing. Yep. I taped clear plastic on the end of the wing and did the layup on that. While the epoxy was curing I picked up my various fittings, now welded, drilled, tapped (and cooled down as needed, and began installing them. The first was the "push-fit barb" hose connector that I'm going to use for the air bleed from the top of the engine (flywheel end) to the expansion tank. It was a perfect fit - thanks Charlie. I tapped it into place with a small hammer, connected a 1/4 ID silicone hose, and threaded the hose under the inlet manifold. I noticed that the hose was a fairly tight fit in one area, so I tried blowing through it to make sure it wasnt obstructed. I could blow through it just fine, but I noticed a "breath" of cold air on my other hand when I blew. Now where is THAT coming from? Eventually I located the leak - it was the air bleed inlet for the expansion tank - the spot where I was about to connect the hose. Slowly this fact began to make sense. I'm blowing through the engine water galleries. Cool. So... continuing the thought...I could test the integrity of the coolant system by blocking the outlet hole and blowing pressure into the engine. Obviously. I blocked the hole and was rewarded by back pressure. But the back pressure dissipated in a few seconds. I decided that it shouldnt do that, and I must have a leak somewhere. While blowing into the tube I felt around all the coolant fittings until I felt cold air - I found it quickly - the expansion tank drain connection to the radiator. This connection is behind a bunch of stuff and I had to remove the oil cooler pipes to get at it and tighten it up. With this fitting tight the pressure didn't leak away any more. I suppose I could do a real pressure test using a regulated pressure source and a gauge, but I dont have these - hey wait a minute - yes I do. I have a tire pressure gauge and I have an air line. Maybe I'll try this in the morning. I installed all the AC fittings, fiddled with a couple of pipes and got everything connected apart from the two hoses that I have to go and get. At least I got everything figured out and made notes of the parts needed to complete the system. Then I removed all the AC fittings again so I could get replacement o rings. Might as well do this now rather than later. Next I worked on the drier installation. It fits nicely under the condenser near (but not interfering with) the rudder pully. I clamped it to the engine mount with silicone baffle rubber to stop any vibration. Seems very firm. Now, if I could just get a new drier of the correct type ('93 honda civic) I'd only need the freon (or whatever they call it these days) and the AC would work. Maybe I'll look into that tomorrow. The condenser and attached duct are a good fit, but I left them off until I get the 2 missing hoses installed. By this time (2pm) the intercooler duct was cured so I cleaned up the bare ends of glass, painted it the proscribed gold color and installed it. Now the air pipe to the TB fits nicely. I cut off about an inch of the pipe because it was intruding too far into the silicone transition piece. I noticed that the intercooler is now held in place by the ram air inlet and the pipe to the throttle body. It really doesnt need any additional mounting. It's held rigid already, and there's another 2 inch pipe from the turbo to be clamped to it yet. Speaking of which, I got home to find 3 right angle aluminum bends and a 2 foot 2.25 scat tube waiting for me. I was going to head down to the hangar at 8pm tonight to start work on the piping, but decided to check my email first. Big mistake. It's now 10:30pm and too late to head out. I'll get an early start in the am instead. It's Friday tomorrow. I said I'd start the engine this week. However, I need to do the empty weight without fluids before I add oil, coolant and fuel. This seems strange, because the plane is always going to have coolant and oil in (I hope), but I'll do the weight without fluids anyway. Total time - 8 hrs. Tomorrow's plan get o rings for ac fittings get ac pipes & fittings get oil/water overflow hoses cut turbo pipe and bends as needed and take for welding Revise overflow bottle mount get AC drier? temporarily install upper cowl, prop, spinner weigh plane add fluids start engine???

Ok, I suppose. I was thinking of using something a bit more substancial - like fiberglass:D Cause it's just been discovered, by me at least.

I came across the following link which shows the results of oil flow tests on a NACA inlet with and without "corner baffles". The baffles provided a 30 degree CHT reduction. http://4dw.net/marcborom/LongEZ/NACA_AirFlow.htm Also, there was a study in Central States a while back on belly vortilons. I think Eric Westland did the experiments. He was able to reduce operating CHT considerably also. There's a web site on this somewhere.

Today started well. I was walking out to the car to head for the pound when who should trot past me into the yard? Buddy. He'd been away 5 days, but the look on his face said something like "What? Is there a problem?". I fed him and settled him down, locked the door, then headed off for the hangar. With the pound trip cancelled I decided I'd also skip the breakers yard (which is near the pound) and make my existing overflow bottle work. I screwed the bracket to the firewall and the bottle seemed fairly secure. "Fairly secure", unfortunately doesn't cut it, so I plan to work on that some more tomorrow. I dropped in to see how Charlie was doing. He was working on one fitting, and two were done, sitting on his welding table. I picked one of them up to examine it just as he said "don't touch them yet!" Being a seasoned engineer, and knowing what the tub of water is for, I quenched my fingers quickly and didn't suffer too much of a burn. While waiting for the remaining fittings I worked on the condenser duct. I noticed a few spots where I could see daylight through the glass, so I touched these up with flox, painted the whole thing with gold engine paint, then used red RTV to seal the duct to the condenser. I added self tapping screws around the sides to hold the parts together. This will be cured by morning ready for "final" installation. The stock pipe from the drier to the condenser gave me a battle. It's too long for where I've put the drier. I bent it into a "U turn for spacing", but didn't like the idea of this loop of piping close to the rudder pulley. I tried various locations for the drier. A perfect spot for the pipe length would be above the aileron torque tubes on the firewall. I considered this briefly, but opted not to put a lump of metal anywhere close enough to interfer with the torque tubes. I'd rather have it below, so should something vibrate loose it wont go anywhere dangerous. Also, the aluminum seemed to a bit soft where I'd bent it. My better judgement decided the issue. I loped off the tubes and took the end fittings to Charlie for 1/8 NPT tapping. I'll have a short teflon hose made up to join the two. Ah well - back to the hose shop with that refund.... The drier now has a home, but it needs to be supported better and insulated from the engine mount with some silicone baffling. At lunch time I found that my delivery from Hose Techniques had arrived. I took these goodies down to the hangar and installed the 3 to 2.5 inch transition piece on the throttle body. I had to loosen the compressor bolts to get it on, but eventually I got it fitted and held very tightly in place with it's 1/2 inch T clamp, not to mention the compressor. Note: I previously bought some cheaper clamps and deliberately overtightened one to destruction. Destruction came WAY too soon for my liking, so I dumped them. The polished AL turbo pipe now fits up to the throttle body. Next I worked on sealing the intercooler to its duct with more RTV. I left this curing overnight with weights on top. Total time today - 6 hrs. Once the AC plumbing is finished the only remaining "construction" job of any size (that I can think off right now) is the intercooler to turbo pipework. I know how to do this now. The parts should be here tomorrow. Once I get this done it's time to put fluids in the engine....in fact I could be doing that while waiting for the pipes to be welded. Did I say I was going to clean up the shop? Didnt get to it. Plan for tomorrow Revise overflow bottle installation Install modified AC fittings Complete drier installation Install condenser and duct Complete intercooler installation Get hose made for drier > condenser Get end fittings for compressor > firewall Get oil/water overflow hoses start work on turbo pipe?

Not much progress today, I'm embarrased to say. I had a few non-airplane errands to perform and only managed 3.5 hours at the hangar. I cleaned up the condenser duct and trial fitted it yet again. I think the gremlins changed the shape of it overnight. I had to make a few "adjustments" with the dremel and do a new layup to get it to fit nicely against the cowl. I left it curing for the third time. (not counting the original construction). I stopped over at the welding shop and picked up one of the AC lines that had been bothering me. The pipe was a little kinked where I'd bent it, so I chopped off the whole pipe and took the remaining lump of AL back for a welded AN fitting. I explained to Charlie that I wanted him to weld on the new fitting and "make that hole go away". He was working on the other fittings while I was there, so in the morning I should have everything I need to complete the AC system plumbing. You may wonder why I get Charlie to do all my machine work. Answer - because he's much better at it than me, has really cool tools and machines to do the job with precision, and he isn't expensive. Add all this to the fact that it saves me time, and makes me very confident about the quality of some really important connections and I figure it's worth it. Same applies to the welding. Sure - I could probably have learned to do quality welds eventually. I decided learning to build a plane and configure an engine was enough. Maybe later, when I have some spare time I'll play with the TIG machine. On the other hand I could sell it and buy a GPS. Much more useful, and lighter. Back to my to-do list. I removed the expansion tank (which ain't easy because the bolts go through the firewall. I was (just) able to hold a wrench on one side and reach over the top to undo the nut on the other. I could have used nut-plates, but I wasn't planning on taking this thing off very often. With the expansion tank out of the way I experimented with the Mazda 626 dual bottle arrangement. It's just the wrong shape to fit and still leave room for the expansion tank. After an hour or so of trying various combination of tanks and positions I came to the conclusion that I need a differently shaped overflow bottle to make this work. I also decided that I'll forgo the screen washer bottle for now. I don't need the extra weight and complexity. I can always add it later. Maybe I'll put it under the back seat. This way we can "refill" it in flight. Hmmmm - an alternative spray on the exhaust??? I'm wasting too much time looking for wrenches and parts buried under blue foam scraps and used duct tape. Every once in a while, usually when I finish a major task, my work area gets a clean up. I hate doing it, but I do enjoy the improved efficiency once it's done. I can't finish the turbo until the al bends to come in from Burns Stainless and the pipe connectors and clamps to come in from Hose Techniques, so tomorrow's clean-up day. Plan for Tomorrow Visit breakers yard to search for a better overflow bottle Visit pound to search for our runaway Golden retreiver Collect & install AC fittings Install drier, condenser duct, condenser Complete AC plumbing Clean-up shop

Sure. That ok with you, MT?

1A.)What color are these?.... Black 1B.)Is AS&S THE Place to Purchase these from? Yes. They're almost half the price of the Wicks ones. The buckles on the Wicks ones are chrome and the Spruce ones arnt, but otherwise they're the same (in appearance at least). But.... You REALLY dont need the seat belts until the final prep for flight. Mine just gathered dust, almost got painted and lost and got in the way until only recently. 2.)UNI & BID Fiberglass, It looks like the ENTIRE Plane is built with only Two types, UNI/7715 & BID/7725..(I think I would just as soon get all I need at once.) 2A.)How many Yards in a Roll? Would you buy a ROLL? 2B.)How Many Yards on a Cozy? Definately buy a roll of BID. I kept running out. I'm not sure how much UNI we use. It may not add up to a full roll. 3.) Brakes/Cleveland... 3A.)Is this the brake to buy? No. (IMHO) 3B.)Is AS&S the place to buy them? No. I'd recommed the Matco's from JD Newman Infinituaerospace.com They're almost double the stopping power and even a little cheaper. Marc's flying with them. Perhaps he'd care to comment. Beware - this brake issue is one of the most emotive issues after pump / scale. Check the archives to see both sides. The naysayers basically say the Cleavlands are "good enough", and one builder got a warped disk from Matco back in 1964.

I got down to the hangar early determined to make some serious progress. The first job on my list was intercooler & condenser mounting. It took me about 8 hours. I'd made the duct a while back, and was planning to connect it to the plenum with 3 inch scat hose. The scat stuff bends pretty well, but well not enough to link my plenum outlet and the duct inlet. Looking at the duct I decided that the inlet would be better from below rather than from the back. This would also keep the hose away from the turbo. I hacked the inlet off the duct with the dremel and experimented with it to find the best position. In the end, since I was going to have to fiberglass the inlet back on anyway, it seemed that the best way to connect to the plenum would be to extend the inlet with fiberglass. I cut and sanded a blue foam plug until it reached the plenum, curved the edges with modelling clay, duct taped the whole thing, then layed up a pipe to the plenum. This is the way I did the intercooler duct. I like it much better. While this was curing I remeasured the labels for the annunciator panel, then gathered up all my AC pipes and fittings and headed down to the welding shop. Charlie had finished my intercooler to throttle body pipe and it looks excellent. Now I know how it's done the rest of the turbo pipes will be easy. I left the AC fittings with Charlie for drilling & tapping for AN fittings and welding up the old holes. We also discussed the push-fit barb and it looks like he'll be able to weld an angled barb onto the old fitting (which I had him seal up earlier). I messed with the overflow bottle for a while, then decided I'd much rather have the Mazda 626 double bottle if I could just squeeze it in somewhere. This bottle is bigger (I hear you need 1.5 qt) and it has a screen washer bottle attached. I've installed every cooling technique known to man (or at least to me) except a water spray (and big draggy ducts). This screen washer bottle and the attached motor (which I tested) will complete the set. I'll have to dismount the expansion tank and move it off to the side, but I think it can be done. I'm short one -6 weld on boss for the AC fittings, so I headed up to the hose shop with all my receipts and a bag of unused fittings. This might just be my last trip to the hose shop, so I thought it was only fitting that I come away with more money than I went with for a change. I exchanged my bag for three new fittings and some dollar bills. Afer the hose shop I went home and ordered everything on my list except the spare battery. Speaking of batteries, I noticed that my primary battery was HOT this morning. I'd left it on charge overnight and it was still taking 6 amps. Not good. I'd better replace them both. Damn that "smart" trickle charger. It ate 3 good batteries. This evening I went down for a couple of hours to clean up the duct layup and add some lips to attach the condensor to the duct, and an aluminum hardpoint to the duct to hold it tight to the cowl. Total time today - 10 hours. Plan for tomorrow move expansion tank finish bracket for overflow bottle Fit overflow / screen washer bottle wire screen washer pump find a place on the panel for yet another switch