John Slade

Jim, Thanks for the thoughts. You don't mention the biggest con against the (Single Return Transfer (SRT) System. Single point of failure. From the main tank outlet to the rail, everything is a single point of failure. Anything (water in tank, fittings, pipes, blockage, filter, pump, sump tank) goes wrong in this system and you're an instant Simon & Garfunkle fan. You're big advantage is the ability to draw the last drop of fuel from the secondary tank. Pipers have been flying for years without major problems (at least for those people who are smart enough to use the 45min rule and not rely on that last drop). Actually, I (and piper) could add this feature easily with a T and a facet pump, but it introduces additional complexity. There seems to be no "right" way to do this job, but on balance I still think the Duel Feed Switched Return (DFSR) system is the least complex, lowest pilot workload and most reliable. John

Thanks, Nat The positions of the holes is no problem, and my Matco triple puck brake calipers fit inside the pant with plenty of room to spare. It was the 3/8 clearance I was looking for. One more measurement I'd like to compare is the amount of tire typically showing below the pant lip. I think this is where the LongEz molds are coming up a bit short.

Sounds fair. The fuel pressure may not work for me since I'm using EFI. I'm not sure how the RPM will work either. Lets talk to discuss the details. John

Today I received a bunch of parts for my fuel system. Unfortunately they didnt all fit together because I'd mistakenly ordered 3/8 NPT instead of 3/8 flared fittings in a few cases. I called Sherri at Wicks and explained the problem. Her answer.... 10 minutes later I had a list of parts that I needed, a box of parts to return for credit, and a much better understanding of how pipe and flare threads work. Other companies would have said " and left it at that. The people at Wicks are Greaaaaaaattttttt!

A while back I managed to get on the list for the wheel pant molds. I believe these molds were orgininally designed for a Long-Ez. I'm now fitting the wheel pants on my Cozy IV and finding them to be a little tight. Does anyone know how much clearance I should be looking for between the tire and the pants, both above the pant and at the sides? Also - how much tire should be showing? Am I wasting my time?

Dale, Too late for me, but please share a little detail about these methods, perhaps in a new thread. I'm sure others would like to know an easy way to build a cowl, and I'd love to know how much time I wasted carving sheetrock.

As far as making a cowl is concerned, take a look at http://kgarden.com/cozy/cowl.htm I found making a cowl to be a lot of work, but also a lot of fun if you enjoy building things.

New, unused facet pump and gascolator from Wicks per Cozy IV plans. For sale at 50% of list plus shipping. I'm installing fuel injection, so won't be using these items. First email gets 'em.

John Fleisher of Micro Fasteners www.microfasteners.com is now stocking 8-32x5/8 100 degree flat head torx screws part number FCMXS0810. They are made from 302 stainless steel and require a torx T20 driver. The price is $14.50/100 in packages of 100 only. Shipping for orders of up to $100 is $5. They will send samples at no charge if you send your mailing address. If you prefer to call or fax, use 800-892-6917 or 908-236-8120 for voice, 908-236-8721 for fax. They have promised to offer 10-32's if enough people ask for them.

Done, Rick. Thanks. I also added the Canard Web Pages Host address. How about returning the compliment??? Regards, John

Gary, My address is in a private message. Perhaps you havent found these. The link is at the bottom of the forum page. John

Thanks for the comments, Jack. My starter solenoid will be on the cabin side of the firewall for some of the reasons you outlined, and so I can connect it to the battery contactor with a brass strip. Even on the ground a runaway starter can be a real problem, so on balance, or until I fry my first battery contactor, the starter current will go through the battery contactor. I just ordered some teflon bulkhead pass throughs for the fat wires. All I have to do now is screw it all together and see if it works. John Slade PS - Bob Nuckolls shouldn't have quotes around the term "expert". His knowledge and experience in aircraft electronics is ledgendary. This doesnt mean he's infallible, but he sure knows more than I do.

Jack, Given my immediate interest in these issues I asked Bob Nuckolls to comment on the above. He responded in the Aeroelectric list, but for the sake of continuity I'll summarize his message here in my own words... 1. Battery contactor is already closed when the starter is engaged. It can stand the amps without a problem. 2. We can avoid significant battery voltage drops by using well maintained RG batteries. 3. The biggest problem with wiring the starter contactor direct is the potential for a stuck starter contactor with no way to shut the starter down. Starter contactors stick more often than battery contactors. 4. Bob doesnt think that a 50 amp fuse in the primary feed is justified. 5. He says there's no reason not to run hot unfused fat wires through the firewall if its done right. I don't know enough to argue with either of you guys - just relaying the information. John Slade

Robert, CSA membership is worth 10 EAA memberships and a couple of dozen AOPA's put together. A couple of project visits puts all the memberships and everything you read on the web into perspective. Regards, John Slade PS - I started building 40 months ago, and am almost done. See http://kgarden.com/cozy Just dive in - the water's fine!

Thanks for the feedback, Guys... >I thought about having a header tank on the hot side OK, I guess, provided you're not returning to it. Just so long as it doesnt leak >There is a workload in always feeding to one tank, but that does not seem more workload than remebering to switch the return valve when you switch tanks. The return valve will be switched by the same switch as the pump. Nothing to remember, provided the switching actually takes place >Where do you physically locate the 107702 valves? Reachable for emergency shutoff only? Under the back armrests (Cozy IV). The valves are really for maintenance, but I think I'll be able to rig an emergency shut-off cable to each from the front seat. >Lack of electricity results in no fuel - so backup power is required. Also results in no ignition. I'll be installing a backup battery. >What is the state of the return valve without electrics - force right tank? I'm looking at JC Witney's Pollock valve. Will test failure modes before flight. Fail closed would be bad. >The benefit is you can use your setup as a low-volume transfer pump! Fairly high volume, actually - but I plan to wire it with the fuel pumps for reduced workload. A bypass switch could be added if I find I need this facility. OK. Thanks again for the feedback gentlemen. I'm ordering the parts.... But, if anyone reads this thread the day before I fly and has a problem with the planned system, please let me know....

Nick, OK. I'll of $10 for the lot. Now...what do you want for you're Westach stuff?

Hello Matt, I've been occilating back and forth on this for years (literally). One advantage of the header tank approach is that you can draw from different levels and thereby create a "reserve" capacity. Two disadvantages, that I see, are the potential for fuel leakage in the cockpit and the additional weight. Most header systems also receive the return. Plumbing it into the right tank removes the potential for air accumulation in the header, but introduces an increased pilot workload (which Tracy Crook is happily living with). Will you tell me what you don't like about my (most recently) planned system? See Regards,

I'm not sure I follow what you're describing, Dan, but it sounds like it involves running high pressure lines to the seatback which is something I'd prefer to avoid. Nat's comments raised the other issue I was trying to avoid, which was having a header tank in the cockpit. Also, another big negative, using the existing weatherhead valve and header tank means that I'll have no redundancy. OK, I think I have another plan... Install AN867-3 aluminum flanges at the top and bottom of each tank. 3/8 pipe via AN elbows and 107702 manual shut-off valves to 230106 filters and EFI fuel pumps to a T at the rail. This gets me two redundant fuel systems. To get the return fuel back to the correct tank, I'm considering the ASCO 8300B410U 12VDC soleniod valve which would be switched depending on which pump is active. Any thoughts? I see that a lot of people are viewing this thread, but I'm not getting much input. John Slade

Nat, There's a LOT of fuel flowing through the return. Possibly as much as 30 gal/hr during idle and decent. Juggling tanks with this much return fuel flow would generate a fairly high pilot workload. I think I can isolate the header tank from the cabin. There seems to be no "right" way to do this job. Thanks for the input. Regards, John

Sealing the door to the basement and putting in an exhaust fan should work. Bulent Alieve built his fuselage in the living area of his apartment... but then he was single at the time Seriously, you can build a LOT without hardly any dust. Bulkheads, fuselage sides, aluminum hardware etc. Its only when you start sanding the fiberglass and micro that dust becomes a big issue. Also, you might consider using MGS epoxy so you dont stink ont the whole house with epoxy smell. The sooner you start the sooner you'll be done.

>Will you have a mechanical pump in line with the boost pump? No. >The mechanical pump may create some draw through the system. Do you think gravity will get the fuel from the strakes to the sump through the restrictions of the lines and valve in all attitudes? This is my main concern. I'd like to keep the fuel valve. Maybe I'll need to leave the boost pump on all the time. <I know of one Velocity (Hi Jim) that has feed sporadic problems from both tanks.> >I am hoping the larger lines eliminate this problem. It should, provided you clean out all the crud from the main tanks and put screens on the feeds. That's what Jim is doing right now.

>Will the boost pump be running all of the time pressurizing the sump tank? I expect to use the boost pump for take off and landing, but it shouldnt be needed in cruise. The facet pump allows fuel to flow through it when it's off and is plumbed in series with the mechanical pump for Lycomings. The header is below the tanks and "should" get gravity feed. I'll measure the gallons per hour to see what max flow is going to be. >Will you have back-up boost tank? I assume you mean a back-up boost pump. No. I wasnt planning on it because of the gravity feed. >This system still has 50% of the cons of a sump system. Which cons are you referring to? Would it be easier to use the velocity sump system with 3/4" or 1" gravity drain lines with check valves in each line from the strake tank to the sump tank? Velocity has 3/4 or 1 inch lines? really? >I like the idea of venting through the strake vents. Venting of the main tanks will be as normal. The header tank shouldnt need a vent. >What are the feed problems associated with a sump tank? I know of one Velocity (Hi Jim) that has feed sporadic problems from both tanks.

Following various inputs and after agonizing on this for the longest time, I think I have a decision.... Based on the KISS principle, considering that I already have most of the parts, and given that hundreds of planes (including a turbo 13B powered Cozy) are flying with a similar setup, here's what I plan to do: 1. Use the Cozy plans fuel system currently installed including left / right off weather head valve in the seatback, 3/8 lines, facet pump and gascolator. 2. Output from the facet "boost" pump will go to a 3 gallon fiberglass header tank in the "hell hole". 3. The header tank will be sealed and will have no vent other than a valve to release the air when it's first filled. 4. Two finger strainers in the header will supply fuel to two EFI fuel pumps on the firewall. The main pump will draw from a point higher than the backup pump to allow an emergency reserve supply of about 1.5 gallons. I'll fit a low fuel sensor in the header. 5. The return will go to the top of the header. If anyone see's a problem with the above, please let me know. John Slade

Sorry, but I have no data on windmilling prop air speeds. Standing behind a Cessna 172 with the engine running, I might guess at 30mph.

Hi, I just measured the custom cowl I built for my 13B powered Cozy IV. See http://kgarden.com/cozy/cowl.htm for pictures. It seemed like 100 sq ft during finishing, but my ROUGH guess at surface area of the upper cowl is 12 sq ft, not counting 4 sq ft of area over the wing roots. The lower cowl has a little less surface area - maybe 10sq ft. plus another 4 sq ft under the wing roots. Hope this helps. John Slade