Lunch with Burt

[Len Evansic]

As a preface to this post, I must insist that this is in no way an attempt to provoke envy or resentment from anyone here. I'm just relaying some stories and information that I got from Burt today. That being said, I'm sure that he would say the same thing to anyone here, if you were to sit down with him for lunch. Now, on to the stories.

 

As the title of this post implies, I had lunch with Burt today. There is a tradition at Scaled, where each month, three employees are selected at random to have lunch with Burt. Today was my lucky day.

 

Our conversation was wide ranging on topics from electric cars to his brother Dick's attempts at a political career. Invariably though, we discussed aircraft for the majority of the time. His all-time favorite aircraft is the SR-71, and he learned to fly and soloed in an Aeronca Champ 7AC. His favorite GA type plane is his Boomerang. The Boomerang, it's capabilities and design details took up about half an hour, by itself. Some of the conversation about the Boomerang slipped into the Adam A500 (another twin design) and another project, but I'm pretty sure I can't repeat any of those details in public. The Boomerang is his favorite, single or twin.

 

I must say, if he were ever to license the design to a kit maker, I would do whatever I could to buy a kit for this plane. Yeah, you would have to buy two engines for it, but operating it at "economy cruise" would give you 180 knots at Cozy fuel consumption. Typically, the cruise is closer to 260 knots at 65% power. This plane has a 2,600 mile range on a full tank. Burt had a simple and elegant pressurization and cabin heating system worked out for this plane, but never got around to finishing the system before medical problems grounded him.

 

We talked about his earlier designs, too. I had always scratched my head about the apparent missing link between the Vari-Viggen and the Vari-eze, since there are few similarities between them beyond being canard pusher type aircraft. According to Burt, the Vari-Viggen was his attempt at a personal F-4 Phantom. At the time, he was flying backseat in an F-4 as a flight test engineer. His goal with the Vari-Viggen was just to turn "a pile of wood" into a plane that had a fast roll rate, and a similar experience to the vertical-back Martin-Baker ejection seating that he was used to, in the F-4. The Vari-Viggen succeeded in having a fast roll rate, and according to Burt, it is probably the best plane out there in touchdown spot contests, since it comes down real fast due to low L/D.

 

He then mentioned a design of his called the Mini-Viggen. There are a few mentions of this plane on the web as being an aluminum design that was never realized. These reports are wrong. This plane was going to be a kit, based on the mechanical components of a BD-5, but looking entirely different and made out of foam and fiberglass. The lack of a physical BD-5 kit slowed this plan, and Burt's attention shifted to making a more economical plane, which is where the Vari-eze came in.

 

Economy is a special topic for Burt. He mentioned that the original plans-built Long-EZ, with the original engine (O235), could stay airborne for 24 hours on a full tank. Likewise, the Defiant could stay airborne for 12 hours on full tanks. When he first told his brother Dick about this, he was incredulous and the next day, he went out to see how long he could stay aloft. Burt was waiting for him to come back in 12 hours, as they were supposed to go to dinner that evening. Well, Dick came back over 18 hours later, and they had a very late dinner.

 

We touched a bit on plane ownership and insurance issues. Burt confessed that the absences of hassles related to plane ownership have made up for the loss of being able to fly. I asked if he would ever get back in under the LSA license, and was surprised that he hadn't followed the issue much. He did indicate that although he's lost the passion for non-space planes, there may be one more airplane design that he's developed an itch for, as required technologies are almost at the right stage of maturity to use. This plane would be exceedingly efficient, and probably fall under the E-LSA designation, so he may fly again.

 

At the end, I sheepishly asked Burt for his opinion of various derivatives of his design. He responded with a joke about how you can spot Cozy pilots (and co-pilots) by the sideways tilt of their heads.:battle: He then turned a bit more serious and explained that the reason he never did the side-by-side seating is because of the CG issues that have to be accounted for. Basically, two heavy people in the front can cause problems, and also the required movement of ballast. Also, he has worries about the ease of loading the planes into dangerous aft-CG conditions. He said I should catch him again some other time to discuss some of these issues.

 

Well, that was basically it. With Scaled's current rate of growth, it will probably be about 10 years before I'm eligible for the lunch with Burt lottery again. This was definitely a red letter day for me.

 

-- Len

[raiki]

As a preface to this post, I must insist that this is in no way an attempt to provoke envy or resentment from anyone here.

You failed, I am envious of your encounter and I am pretty sure I am not the only one.

 

Most of what you have discussed I have read in magazines and on the net etc, but it is good to see that has now been verified by the man himself.

 

I am curious to see what Burt thinks now of the idea of our 4 seat canards, as I had read before what you have said. It seems we are all pretty aware of the CG issues, you could consider us educated in that field. The cause of most incidents in the world today, not just aviation, seems to be from a lack of education. I wonder if this would sway his mind.

[Len Evansic]

I am curious to see what Burt thinks now of the idea of our 4 seat canards, as I had read before what you have said.

We did not discuss them that much. It was the last topic that I broached in our conversation. He said that he did the Defiant as a four-seat canard with side-by-side seating, because it's second engine gave it a much larger acceptable CG envelope. He has an aversion to putting more people at risk in the case of pilot negligence, and sees the ballast shifting that is required with the Cozy or any three-or-more person, single-engine canard as a potential disaster waiting to happen. Especially if the pilot is not the builder, or if the pilot is not sufficiently impressed by the need to maintain the aircraft CG within the acceptable range.

 

Basically, he said that the movement of balast is something that is required in the Cozy, as you could have two heavy people in the front on one flight, and perhaps a very light pilot on the next flight. With the Long-EZ, you balast for the pilot, and (usually) no adjustment is necessary for the addition of a passenger, as they nearly sit on the CG. Also, as alluded by his joke, by seating in tandem, the canopy isn't forcing your head into any unnatural positions.

 

-- Len

[Jon Matcho]

Today was my lucky day.

That had to be one of the most fun lunches you've ever had. How long do you have to wait until you're eligible for the lottery again?

 

He did indicate that although he's lost the passion for non-space planes, there may be one more airplane design that he's developed an itch for, as required technologies are almost at the right stage of maturity to use. This plane would be exceedingly efficient, and probably fall under the E-LSA designation, so he may fly again.

<sigh> Can you give us *any* hints? What sort of "required technologies" are we talking about? Plasma drives? Dilithium crystal reactors?

 

At the end, I sheepishly asked Burt for his opinion of various derivatives of his design. He responded with a joke about how you can spot Cozy pilots (and co-pilots) by the sideways tilt of their heads.

It took me two days to get the punchline, but I think he's referring to the canopy?

 

Thanks Len, great post!

[Drew Swenson]

I second the sentiment about the head position---one of my least favorite features of my MKIV. However, there are those out there who have blown the canopy wider without widening the cockpit---that will most likely put their heads into a more natural position.

 

Cockpit comfort was much better in my Longez (at least for the pilot).

[Len Evansic]

That had to be one of the most fun lunches you've ever had. How long do you have to wait until you're eligible for the lottery again?

My current guess is 10 years for this type of lunch. Less if I can figure out something that will pique his interest.

 

<sigh> Can you give us *any* hints? What sort of "required technologies" are we talking about? Plasma drives? Dilithium crystal reactors?

Well, it won't be a speed demon, and there would probably be only about 50 safe flying days a year in Mojave for this plane. Then, again, the same could be said for almost all LSA type planes. The concept is still bouncing around his head, so I'd rather not spoil it.

 

It took me two days to get the punchline, but I think he's referring to the canopy?

Exactly! He's not a fan of that part of the design.

 

-- Len

[H.Zwakenberg]

Well, it won't be a speed demon, and there would probably be only about 50 safe flying days a year in Mojave for this plane. Then, again, the same could be said for almost all LSA type planes. The concept is still bouncing around his head, so I'd rather not....

 

Would that be a very light solar- and fuel cell powered plane - with the 50 safe days in Mojave you are alluding to being the turbulence such a light structure would need to endure on all other days...?

 

Just guessing....

 

bye

Hans