Reynaldo Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I received my plans last week and I'm from Puerto Rico. The only epoxy that I can find here is the West System Epoxy. I need to know if is Ok to use. I can't order MGS because is hazard material and can't be send by air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I received my plans last week and I'm from Puerto Rico. The only epoxy that I can find here is the West System Epoxy. I need to know if is Ok to use. I can't order MGS because is hazard material and can't be send by air.West is most certainly NOT acceptable as a structural epoxy - I believe that the plans explicitly say this, but if they don't, it's been said in the newsletters and the on the COZY mailing list many times. Order whatever epoxy you need far in advance, if it takes a long time to get there, but do NOT substitute unapproved epoxies. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 way back when.....1983 i read in kit planes a new way to build planes, i was going to build, but just started this year,ch 13 now. In there it had "west" all over it in all the testing,imo if u go to west use the slow hadner. i use boat epoxi in my bird its called maz,and i have read the last test report (the pucks) and like what they say. some one said to me in a post once that im under building 10 % but the spar will hold 9 g's i pass out @ 4 Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelortiz Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 So, what is the technical issue with the West System epoxy? I am interested too, as Reynaldo I live in Puerto Rico and planning to build a Cozy. Hazard charges are very expensive to send MGS epoxies by air. West system is ready available here at the local West Marine. Any experience with System Three epoxy? That can also be locally sourced thru the marine industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 So, what is the technical issue with the West System epoxy?....I thought that I had corrected my incorrect statement previously, but that must have been in another thread. SOME of the West System epoxies are acceptable - they are listed in the COZY newsletters as to which ones are and which are not. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Gougeon makes these epoxies: 1. WEST epoxy (wood epoxy saturation technique) not approved for structural layups. 2. Pro-Set epoxy, which is approved. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Gougeon makes these epoxies: 1. WEST epoxy (wood epoxy saturation technique) not approved for structural layups. 2. Pro-Set epoxy, which is approved. Actually, Wayne, that's what I thought too, but SOME of the WEST epoxies ARE approved. According to Newsletter 56, the West 105 epoxy with the 209 extra slow hardener is approved for structures, along with the Proset 125/229. I THOUGHT that I had read somewhere that the WEST 206 hardener was OK too, but don't take my word for it, because I can't find the reference. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 If the WEST 209 hardener is okay, I'd think the 206 is okay too. I do know the 206 hardener kicks off ALOT faster though. :-) Ya know, all we've ever heard is NOT to use WEST for structural layups. I vaguely remember Nat quietly saying WEST would be okay, so thanx for pointing me to the newsletter. A physicist friend of mine, the smartest man I personally know, and from MIT no less, has worked personally with Jan and Neade Gougeon for over 30 years. They used WEST on jig fixtures and on Apache helicopter blades during some tests for the Army. He always balked at me making the statement about WEST not being acceptable among our builder community. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Whoops! That's Meade Gougeon, not Neade....... Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miguelortiz Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I just got this email from Nat: Dear Miguel, Armando Vargas (and architect in San Juan) is almost finished with his Cozy, and there is another builder at the other end of the island. You should talk to him about his source of supplies. West System is approved. Systhem three is not. Regards, Nat v/r Miguel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3_C Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Just wondering if anyone in the Long Eze community has had anything to do with West Systems Epoxy? Like other countires, here in Australia we also attract the Hazardous goods cost. I do believe there is an MGS distributor here in Australia but I know for a fact I can get hold of West Systems epoxy. Opinions??? Jamie Quote "An upsidedown Australian that wants to build an aircraft that flys backwards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 The same rules apply to Long-EZs as for Cozys (in the absence of official and current support) -- SOME West epoxy systems are approved -- read the posts prior to this for which one. If your distributor has that type, you can use it. According to Newsletter 56, the West 105 epoxy with the 209 extra slow hardener is approved for structures, along with the Proset 125/229.Here's a link to Cozy Newsletter #56. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 WEST is not a company and WEST does NOT MAKE epoxy. WEST is a brand of epoxy manufactured by Gougeon Brothers, Inc. The resin (the ONLY resin) is labeled as "105" to which you mix together with 1 of 4 hardeners -- 205 fast, 206 slow, 207 special coatings, and 209 extra slow. As Marc Z points out you need to use the 209 extra slow hardener. The 205 and 206 cause the mix to cure at elevated temperatures that have the potential to melt the foams we work with. So use the 209 hardener. Gougeon also manufactures the Pro-Set brand of epoxy. www.gougeon.com Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Gotcha WAYNE! I did not know that there was only one West resin type. The 205 and 206 cause the mix to cure at elevated temperatures that have the potential to melt the foams we work with. So use the 209 hardener.How do we know this? The physicals look rather similar across all different hardeners. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3_C Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I have the West System Epoxy R105 data sheet attached has all the good guts info. Attached also is the specific engineering data. Jamie westsystems data.pdf westsystems eng data.pdf Quote "An upsidedown Australian that wants to build an aircraft that flys backwards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3_C Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I cannot find an answer to Jon's question though. Jamie Quote "An upsidedown Australian that wants to build an aircraft that flys backwards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Guys, neither of these references cite the temperature during cure or worse, exotherm. But you can get a good feel for it by looking at the pot life. 205 is 4 times quicker than 209. I can tell you that I cannot hold a cup of 205 when it's kicking. I can hold the 209 all day. I have no official data or reference I can point to, but you might check the CPs or the canard aviator archives? I remember us discussing why 209 and not something faster when Burt "approved" it for use. I also may have heard it second hand from Nat. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rivera Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 West epoxy is good for filler and other non structural uses... ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Yes, and it is also approved for structural layups too. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Juan replied to the forum's automatic e-mails, which I eventually get. There, he wrote: Is it approved by Rutan?To which I reply: No, it was approved by Nat Puffer, designer of the Cozy Mark IV, but... Half the epoxy systems that were approved by RAF are no longer available RAF does not approve anything these days Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 In the canard scratch-built world, it was RAF who first approved the WEST for structural layups. It was Nat Puffer who then approved WEST for use in the Cozy because and only because RAF had approved it. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Now THAT I did not know -- thanks Wayne! Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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