chuckthedog Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 If a Long-ez and a Cozy have the same wings and canard, and say both have the same powerplant. Why dose the Cozy have a higher gross weight than the Long-EZ? Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplafleur Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Doesn't the fuselage also provide lift? Quote Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155N68ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 I don't know? I thought it might have something to do with the langing gear. I know Dick Rutan flew N79RA at over 2,000 pounds on a long cross country record flight. Alaska to Grand Turk island. His first try he had to turn back because of fuel problem on take off, and landed at over 2,000 pounds. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mplafleur Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 There is a max landing weight that is routinely less than max takeoff weight. I don't recall what it is for the Cozy, but it does have to do with the stress on the landing gear, which takes much more stress in landing. At least it does on my landings. Quote Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155N68ML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 Nat says 2000 and change. Burt says 1325 landing,1425 gross Do you think Nat gets a kick back from States that tax AC on gross? Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 The landing gear is built for the higher weights expected in a 4 place. The canard is SHORTER in a cozy The cozy is similar to the long, just 2 generations or so past it. Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 I hope you don't think I'm splitting hairs. Looking at the pics on gear instals for the CozyIII and it looks like 3/8 bolts are used to attach gear to plane. same as the Long. The axils are floxed and bolted by 4, 1/4 inch bolts to the gear leg. same,same. The gear looks heavier,but I would think the bolts are the weak points. Also when Long-ez builders put in larger engines some will also increase the max gross. I know that paper will stand still for anything, and that figures don't lie, but liers figure. Bottem line. I did a new W&B on 24DJ she has gained 90 and change pounds in the last 12 years. EZ-nose lift,Strong Pitch trim, electric landing brake,Alt. Starter,Transponder, encoder, electric Gyro, Catto prop, and stuff, kept the 140 HP Lycoming and pilot heat. I used big Batts for balast up front. figured if I needed weight it might just as well do something. I have carried a lot more than the 1325 Rutan calls for infact I have been over 1600 Lbs. CG at 101.7. It uses more runway and is about 7 to 10 Kts faster on approach at that weight. If I increase the max gross on paper. I got to give the state more money 1/2 cent a pound. How do you figure Max Gross Landing weight? I'm A builder, not a speller. Dewey fonetik sistem. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Well, i don't have my landing gear attach studs on me, but i'm pretty sure they are 3/4 inch and the threads are rolled/NOT cut, he he he, the darn things are expensive. The attach tabs are 45 layers thick and the gear is designed for the cozy, it is not the same landing gear strut as the long. The front landing gear is also more robust, as it should be, for a larger plane that the cozy is. Nat did not just make a bigger fuselodge and call it a day, I would also guess that the spar caps are also thicker on the cozy than the long, you want to count the layers and I'll count mine? Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 Dust, bolts are mesured by bolt Dia. not the socket size.HE HE. I used 3/8 instead of the AN number cause I don't know the AN #. Off hand I would guess a 3/4 bolt would have a 1 1/8 Hex? right? Are the axil bolts 1/4, 7/16 Hex I think my spar has around 74 plies bottem and 54 on top? It has been awhile. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 These are not bolts, they are custom fabed 3/4 inch studs, no head to measure, he he he. But the point isn't what's bigger on the cozy, the point is the long is a great 2 person plane that works and in my humble opinion the cozy is a great 4 passenger plane that works. I was surprised at the delicateness of the nose gear and main gear on the long after i saw one and was intimatly familiar with the cozy gear. Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 The 64 dollar question is. How is Max Gross figured? Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 On a certificated plane, to the last possible pound that the plane can handle under published circumstances. On a rutan/puffer plane, so that no problem can ever occur in a plane built by a poor builder doing shoddy work. on a 210 if you shake the wings AT vne, they fall off. Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 Luscomb's and DGA's If you could close the door. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 20, 2003 Author Share Posted June 20, 2003 Well I guess I just answered my own question. I went to canard.com Long-ez flyers list. It seems 0-235 use 1325 to 1425 for max Gross 0-320's use 1325 to 1800 max,and 0-360's use 1800 to 2250 max. Thanks to all for your input. Did you know airodynamicly a Bumble Bee is not sapose to be able to fly. But he don't know that. So he fly's anyway. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargePrime Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Urban Myth Alert http://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/~ben/zetie1.htm Quote We know who you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 chuckthedog wrote "I went to canard.com Long-ez flyers list. It seems 0-235 use 1325 to 1425 for max Gross 0-320's use 1325 to 1800 max,and 0-360's use 1800 to 2250 max." Were all of these long's built the same, except for the engine, of course? Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckthedog Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 As far as I know. Quote If the phone don't ring. It's me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Tomlinson Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The Cozy has a much different landing gear from the original Rutan birds, so the gear isn't really the limiting issue, Nat is - as the designer he declared the max weight. The 10 +3/4" landing gear attach studs are 1/2 inch rolled Cad plated 4130 steel on the MkIV Personally I'd like to "file" a higher regulatory max gross weight so that the government couldn't violate me for exceeding it - using the designer's weight for all practical purposes. The absolute gross weight is otherwise determined by a large number of factors and tests - Wing Loading is one of the big ones, as is engine/prop combination for the climb test. If you cannot pass the climb test (1000 feet in 3 1/2 minutes) at gross, your gross must be reduced! Of course, the overall design of every part would require review and potential strengthening or other changes to increase the gross weight properly. No matter really - after recently checking my (2001) selection notes, there were only 3 homebuilt aircraft that seat 4 and have a possible useful load of 1000 pounds or over! - So, build it and build it light to maximize your payload! Quote /dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 As the builder of the plane, under US rules, I will determine the gross weight. My gross will be substancially above nat's. End of story, the plane is built strong. The CG limits are the bible and will never be changed. My plan for determining forward cg is to use a 12000 runway for flight testing and determine how forward cg and gross weight uses up the runway. The rear CG will not be messed with, unless i can figure out how to install parachutes to stop a deeeeeeeeeeeeeep stall. Enjoy the build Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleturtle Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Some of us have a higher personal gross than others! If you substantially increase power, won't your gross go up? (Excluding for a moment the increase in weight that the larger power plant adds to the equation.) Quote This ain't rocket surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.