Engines

[ekisbey]

I'm STILL researching costs, building requirements, pro's, con's, brands of peanut butter, and aything else I can think of before diving in this spring (I'll be getting the plans for Xmas, according to my wife--here's hoping). Budget has been and continues to be our largest concern.

 

Our biggest budgetary concern is, of course, the engine. My monthly budget for the plane is only a few hundred a month, based on what we've managed over the last few years. I'm looking at meeting sum financial requirements for the total airframe costs at around two to three years, taking into account bursts of both activity and inactivity, sans avionics and the engine. Construction could take me longer, but I doubt it, not with two of us working on it together. One of the selling points was this was going to get the two of us out from in front of the television. I hinted that maybe the hundred bucks a month we spend on cable could go towards the plane instead, though this met with limited enthusiasm.

 

 

Anyhow, I've examined the data available on the engines that are reccommended for the aircraft, and then looked at the alternatives. There were a few I wasn't too hot about, such as the twin Subarus, and a few I was excited about. The turbine engine from ATP scored nine out of a possible ten drops of drool. Another high scorer was the Mazda 13B and it's apparently large community of converts. It looks promising, and it's got a lot of benefits compared to only a very few credible drawbacks, but my bigest concern is it's not "proven," at least not enough to my satisfaction. Two or three years from now, perhaps, I might change my mind, but from what I've seen there hasn't been a lot of substantial progress in the last two years, so we'll have to see.

 

Anyhow, having examined the alternatives, I'm back to looking at the certified aircraft engines. I'm quite a bit taller than average and over 200 pounds, so after reading about the Franklin with its greater mass and horsepower, combined with its lower cost, I'm leaning in that direction.

 

I was curious about how many planes were flying with engine, how many were building, and if anyone could elaborate the pros and cons. I checked out the updates in the online newsletters from Nat's experiment with the Franklin, and got decent warm-and-fuzzy reactions after explaining it to my wife.

 

Additionally, I'm having trouble find out just who sells aircraft engines. After two months of searching, I've found a grand total of three reputable looking websites (and several not so reputable) that advertise aircraft engines, all Lycomings, but none specify price or inventory. Any info is appreciated here.

[John Slade]

>maybe the hundred bucks a month we spend on cable could go towards the plane

Good plan. I cut our satelitte service to a minimum. I never have time to watch it anyway.

 

I wouldnt agonize on the engine. As you say, progress is being made gradually on 13B and Subaru conversions. By the time you HAVE to decide, the decision may be a much easier one.

 

Get yurself an airframe!

[rmaddy]

John is right. You will spend the next three or more years before you even need to start thinking about what engine you need.

 

In that time there will be several more 13B's flying in Cozy's, probably some more Suburus too. And who knows what else.

 

Get the airplane built before you worry about avionics and engines. Avionics should definitely be the LAST thing you do because with the flux in electronics and what the FAA might decommission over the years (decades), this is the area with the most potential for change. Unless, of course, you are going to put it tried and true steam guages.

 

Enjoy

[ekisbey]

I'm not so worried about the "this side up" signs, gadgets, gee-whizzery or whatever else I put on the panel as I am about the engine. I'm finding myself forced to plan for a certified, and look for an alternative along the way as they present themselves. That's the only way I can be sure when it's time for the rubber band I can wind it up and go.

 

What bothers me is the lack of information I'm finding on just where one would go to buy an engine. Are there really that few engines being manufactured these days? It's hard to believe.

[Joe Cygan]

Eskiby,

There are a lot of Certified engines out there today and there very easy to find.Now,if your talking about inexpensive one's,then your right.If you want the best engine out there today (reliable),buy from BPA,Monty is a great guy and you will never regret it.His link is:

http://www.bpaengines.com/

[ekisbey]

I agree that "finding" an engine isn't too difficult, but I'm uneasy when they start saying "call about a quote on the price." That says to me that they'll sell me the engine for however much they can fool me into thinking I can afford.

 

As a business practice I suppose it's sound, but since I'm not very knowlegeable about aircraft engines in the first place any price I get quoted is immediately suspect. The next time a salesperson asks me "isn't that a great deal?" I'm gonna shove their great deal someplace dark and warm. I'm always tempted to scream "How the heck do I know if it's a great deal or not, I just told you I know nothing about it!"

 

I was hoping to find a website that can give a hard price line on a range of engines of different sizes and types by various manufacturers. I suppose I'm going to just have to start calling folks and comparing notes. I can't firm up on any kind of budget until I know exactly how much I can expect to pay, and a ballpark figure for two or three general categories-- let alone specific engines-- just isn't going to cut it.

 

I'm going to pay whatever it takes to get an engine that anyone who rides with me can feel comfortable about. That pretty much eliminates conversions for the near future. I've given up on inexpensive.

 

Still looking, I guess.

[dust]

i'm going with a new engine, hopefully the continental diesel and i expect to pay 35,000 or so, I also expect to pay 7000 for a constant speed prop.

 

That my good sir is the upper limit in my book, now, ifin you search around over time 6 - 8 thousand for a mid time lycoming 360 is not unheard of and 700 for a new peop, so thats your lower limit

 

Mike

[dust]

i forgot to add - the supply of 320's is plentiful, so they say, and they are cheaper than the 360 and the performance is very similar to the 180 hp 360, and a company out of texas now has a 360 kit, i believe certificated, that's 14000

[PaulL]

Ekisbey,

 

... What bothers me is the lack of information I'm finding on just where one would go to buy an engine. Are there really that few engines being manufactured these days? It's hard to believe.

I used a Franklin 6 in my canarad. I got it in parts and rebuilt the thing.

The whole thing w/o accessories was below $10K. You can add automotive alternator, etc. to keep price down, etc. It seems to give quite decent power, but since it uses a bed mount might be on the heavier side (300+ lbs). More info on my website: http://www.abri.com/sq2000

 

Franklins are available from several sources in US. The most advertised one is www.franklinengines.com. Also Bruce Kown in GA sell a lot of them (770-386-7435) and Susan Prell in TX (A1 dealership) 903-626-5115. There may be others.