SAF_Zoom

I ear you... just saw on the web a Varie EZ in tub state (no landing gear) for 300$ thats why I was trowing this idea out there...

Hi guys I'm new around here. I'm seriously thinking of acquiring a Long EZ (or building one) in the very near futur. My question is what is the best retractable main and front wheel system available on the market. Not a question on best bang for the buck... but which are the best... period... Your input is very appreciated, As a side note, as anybody ever saw a EZ using a "Harrier Jet" or "Glider Type" undercarriage... To illustrate... you would have a single gear in front, One aft of the CG and two small retract gear at both wing tips (who only tilt backward into the airstream)... Could be a cool desing. But I doubt there is space for a gear to retract internally in the belly of the EZ... What do you guys thinks.... Regards,

Just look around you can buy a incompleted cockpit for cheap... No building required... just put in you favorite fsx or fs9 stuff in...

I ear you, 20 poeple working on the same plane is very unproductive. Although some are experienced... they all have to approach the project assigned to them with 0 experience on type. But 20 people building 20 planes by building 20x the same parts is very productive. Its all in the learning curve. As for your last comment... I'm a business man and no fool... that is why i said for this to work you need a contract... And also money must be put "in trust" as a protection if poeple try to bail. What is the expression I'm thinking about... ha yes... No money No candy... lol Hell, its the way Ford redifined production lines... But i sincirely understand your point.

Very nice plane +++, But its not a question of not wanting to build. Its rather a question of how can we improve the building process. Because 3000 hours represents about a little over 8 years at approx 7 hours of building per week (an hour per day). Which is approximately what most will take to build their Long... 5 to 10 years... Needless to say that this is probably the single most important reason why most of these project never get finish. Although the process must be VERY interesting. I know that if it is possible to cut down its lenght for a few of us to about 2-3 years... it would make for more EZs flying. Which is a good way to keep this project alive and well. My idea is all about building on the experience of others. A lot like you offered to build me one for cash. I would benefit from your experience. But seriously, I have no intention of spending over $ 100,000 on a Long EZ (parts a labor ). I would buy a complete Velocity RG for slightly more. No waiting period and better resale value if it ever comes to that (like if I loose my licence for medical reasons... gods forbids.. as I have no intention of resaling the plane). But as a few indicated here, I will look near my location it its possible to put together a team of builders. As for all of you out there... if you are interested in cutting down on your building time... lets unite.. Regards,

I ear you... its the problem with 3000+ hours projects.... Let's see if others are interested. BTW... before anything can get started we need to write everything down... As for how much I'm willing to pay... well what I mentioned above is more of an exchange of services.... Due to the laws up here in Canada I know that I will have to do most of the stuff that gets perminently inclose... But still some kind of arrangement can be made... Regards,

See my other post (I have a crazy idea) and we may be in a position to help one another...

Hi guys, would it be a good idea for the head of this project to have a series of plan printed that are all up to spec and make them available to us for purchase. I know I would like that idea. And BTW just put a big disclaimer on it... has you did for the entire project... Regards,

Hi Steve, What type are you building. Is it a Long EZ ? Are all mandatory modification included in your design. I would like to ear from your project. I would be certainly interested in buying a complete wing. Hope to ear from you, Regards,

Hi Chris, I know that the retrofit should not be a problem. But I'm looking for one with a few mods including a longer nose. So the retrofit would include other stuff... and a longer down time... Regards,

Well I'm not strap for cash... and will probably buy a complete aircraft... life is to short to spend 5-10 years building... But I understand the satisfaction that must comes from building such a fantastic aircraft As I said before it is just an idea... The comment about a partnership is totally off topic. As this is in no way an "ownership partnership". I would NEVER enter such a partnership. But I realise that for some who just don't have the financial resources to own/operate a plane it could be a viable option. That being said... If one wants a Velocity.... one can get a "quick build" kit. Which reduces the build time significantly. This would be a way of doing just that. I realise that a team of 10+ builders would be hard to coordinate. But it could still be done on a smaller scale. The way I see it having a quality control system in place is critical, as is having a way of resolving conflicts/disputes. I'm now a forensic accountant, and the way I see it is quit simple. Have everybody in the project deposit a certain amount "in trust" through an attorney. This act as a warranty if any problem should arise. Instead of buying the material needed to build every single parts, one could buy enought to build two. So the one he is working on and the upcoming parts. This would serve to keep the cash output to its minimum and would reduce the risk of downtime due to inventory shortages. If a dispute should arise as to the quality of one workmanship... the "builder" and the "acquirer" could each mandate a fellow builder (a member of the team) to review the part in question. Each of the "mandated builders" would then appoint a third builder who is essentially the tie braker. This makes for an impartial review and conclusion. The part could be ship from one to the other in order to reduce cost. This is often used as an alternate dispute resolution method (instead of going to trial). The decision of the panel of mandated builder should be binding and without appeal. Either the part is deemed: - satisfactory and as to be paid for; - unsatisfactory and the maker as to rebuild it and the buyer pays for the new part ONLY; - the buyer elects to builds the parts himself and as no obligation to pay for the unsatisfactory part; or - Something along these line. The key to such a relationship is to have a clear CONTRACT that lays done what is expected of everyone.

Sorry if its a repost... the first one seems to have just dissapear I guys, I'm new to this forum but like all of you I was bitten by the Long EZ bug when I first saw one being put through its passes (first test flights) by one of our teacSorry her there back in my college days (studying at the National Institute of Aeronautics near Montreal (1994)). Well now I have the financial resources to build (or buy) an Open (Long) Ez. I know that I want an O320 version with all the bells and whistles (including a full glass cockpit and three axes autopilot). But as it stands now... even if I do buy a pristine flying Long EZ it will have to be retrofitted with the Glass Cockpit I want. Which means a serious $$$ output and downtime. The downtime part is what I have a problem with. So I got to thinking, what if it was possible, for a period maybe not seriously longer (count maybe six more months), possible to build an Open EZ…. This is when I had a crazy idea when I was reading trough all of the post in the Open Ez (and other threads). Seeing how people here are legitimately trying to help each other reaching their collective goals... which is flying a cloned Long EZ… a proven design that should not bring them all the way to the sight of the crash... as one comedian put it. OK back to my idea. This idea came from a post I’ve read somewhere in here were one mentioned that it was possible to build a Long EZ in six months as Burt Rutan brother did it in the late 1970's. To this was answered that he had the benefit of having built one already. That got me thinking.... EXPERIENCE... here’s an interesting concept. So here is my crazy idea. What about forming a consortium of builders. Each could be assigned a series of component to build. These would then be “sold” for a predetermined price (being the price of materials) to another member of the consortium. This way you speed up the building process. Think of it as outsourcing (just like the big boys do it... i.e. Bombardier). So the building could be spread out as follows: So builder A : Ronz Canards builder B : Right/Left side of fusalege builber C : Bulkheads and seats backs builder D : Main Spar builder E : Wing builder F : Ailerons (2x) builder G : Vertical stabilisers builder H : Ruders (2x) builder I : Wing strake builder J : Engine cowlings Etc... BTW - Keep in mind this is just a rough example, people with a more intimate knowledge of the building process should determined the actual “splitting” of thing to do. This way you get a "QUICK BUILD" kit and not the build it from scratch type of project. Everybody capitalises on the building experience of others instead of learning as we go along. This also makes for the maximum use of all of the builders jigs. One setup, but multiples identical parts being made. Sure the first unit takes longer to produce but the following units get easier and faster to build. Also a quick build option would still be in compliance with the 51% rule. This is almost guaranteed to prevent the "builders quitting" syndrome that plague 3000+ hours to finish projects. Just look at the amount of unfinished projects out there... This is feasible if everything is build per plan. No deviations allowed. And everybody builds from a "uniform" set of plan. This is actually quit simple. We (member of a consortium) each sign a contract in which the only liability toward each other is for the cost of material that others incur in accordance with a predetermined delivery schedule. So in my previously mentioned example builder A would buy the necessary component to build maybe 3 canards (at a time) and would get busy (building a total of 10 altogether). As he finishes each canard, he would then ship them in compliance with the previously agreed schedule to its owner... Finally, this could also be an answer to those of you with limited space. As larger items could be contracted out, with you only fabricating smaller components. This could also capitalise on the strength of some (i.e. some here a machinist and have access to CNC mills and hydraulic presses…). Well just my 2 cents,