SAF_Zoom

I would not go there if I were you....

Keep the aerodymics of the LE... or else you are looking at more then just internal airframe modifications... you are talking about a new airframe...

Maybe its been discuss before, but does having no bottom winglet (only a blended winglet) make the plane more susceptible to spinning when getting near the stall ?

Cetified management accountant specialising in forensic accounting and business valuation since 99.

In my previous life.... graduated from the National Institute of Aeronautics (Quebec, Canada).

Thats really an old idea... think WWII... the Luftwaffe was using a similar design in the Jumo 205 diesel engine (used in the Ju 86 bomber) ... These engines were also based on 1920's desings (used in marine application)...

So nothing new here...

but still interesting...

Well just got back on Monday morning from OSH.

Was a lot of fun. Talk to some nice Cozy owners.

Only down side is that my girlfriend got to see a couple of Cozy IV and Long EZ up close and want me to buy/build a Cozy IV instead of a LE.

Talk with some very friendly poeple also. Will go back next year for a longer period.

You may want to look around as a Quickie airframe can be purchase for about $1,000 (without the wings). May save you some time and $$$.

Saw one a couple of months back goins for $1,200, was only missing the canard, engine and prop...

If you can't get a chase plane to come up with you, you could use a cheap back up camera (they attache to the license plate) that the sell now. Just fixe it to the nose gear leg. This should give you a good rear view.

Is there a builder that indicate the weight of every parts he is making. I know many indicate the time it took them to make the part, but I wonder if any indicate the weight...

There is a Velocity 2006 FG IFR panel (19 000 $) and interior (seats and paneling for 900 $) for sale on barnstormers.

Maybe one of you is interested.

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php

BTW I'm not the seller.

i don't doubt that it can be done with a full crew of experienced people. but the glider wing is engineered to be built that way and the ez wing is not. so i doubt anyone can re-engineer the ez wing, build molds, build a spar and wing skins and assemble it in a few days. assemble it in a few days, Yes and all the other work required did not count because it was done in your free time?

You are absolutely right.

Reading Conlin's last post... I beleive I was right on...

Tchuss

Place an order... you crack me up...

The rest of what I typed... i deleted...

we are not negative. we just have been there and done that. you said and i quote "a lot of what im doing is to save time for myself aswell, i can machine and mould the wings in a couple of days". you and an army of guys maybe. if you had said a couple of months I might believe you have really grasp the magnitude of the project. even if you are the fastest composite guy to ever roll out the prepreg, the composites parts are only ten percent of the project. the cost of the molds will out way the cost of the parts. molded parts are made and assembled with different methods then the way the moldless composite aircraft are built. if you use molded parts then there will be a lot of re- engineering to be done to insure a safe aircraft. just because the part came out of a mold made from a cnc'd plug and all the glass was prepreg and cured in an autoclave doesn't mean it is better and stronger then the hand made part. first it needs to be engineered to be better and then it needs to be tested to prove it is better and only then will people really believe it is a better part. why does it need to be better? ask any Rutan canard pilot if his plane would fly any better if the parts where made in a mold and he will tell you that it can't get any better.

Hey Lynn it can be done, they do glider composite wings in two days. But they use molds and the guys that work on them are very fast. You got to love those German.

But I don't know about the Berkut of Ez wing....

Well that is all well and good TMANN but does it apply to his particular situation ? I think not.

He said something along the lines off "I'll be making parts for myself (using hi quality molds) and is willing to makes parts for others, as this will not require a lot of work and could turn in some profit for him".

That does not sound like, engeneering an entire plane and then selling plans and parts. The startup costs will most likely be very low in his case (he has a free access to the required tooling).

And what about royalties for Mr Rutan's design. Marc already told us that Mr Rutan is not enforcing it, so its a none issue. The problem he may have is with the owners of the BERKUT intellectual property, these people may want to inforce their rights. But for them to suffer damages they would have to demonstrate that they lost sales because of his actions (well in Canada it's the way it works). For the US I have no clue how it work.

As for liability issues, how is this defferent than the liability issues facing component makers like Cozy Girrrl, Eureka, or any others ? I'm sure they have proper disclaimers. He should too.

If he supplies parts to current Berkut builders he MAY not have to worry about the rights of the owner of the Berkut intellectual property as he only helping poeple that already purchase their plans/components from a company that is no longer providing support for that type.

So if he is willing to do it, and I repeat, for very little cost to him other than the cost of material, why should he not ? He may not make a living out of it, but he may just make enough to pay for his own bird plus operating expenses....

well just to clarify, a lot of what is requiered i am going to do anyway, the plugs and moulds for the fuse, wings and canard i will be CNC machining and molding from anyway for my own aircraft

 

 

a lot of what im doing is to save time for myself aswell, i can machine and mould the wings in a couple of days, and for me that is a worth while aproach and it has the added bonus of ending up with a better finished article, and the fact that i can just setup the machine and come back in the morning and have a wing pattern sitting in front of me beats the hell out of sanding, floxing, sanding floxing ect

 

so yes for most people this would be a very very expensive venture, for me im just using the tools and facilities i already have to my disposal

Well this is an all together different ball game. If you are doing it for you and that you can find some that are interested in the parts that you are making (at little or no extra cost to you other than the cost of material) then by all means go ahead.

I'm pretty sure that a costs to benefits analysis will show that you are in the money if you sell only one part

When you have an idea of how much one would have to spend for individual components tell us about it (fuselage, spars, canard, wings, winlets, stakes, cowlings, etc.). I'm sure you will find many interested parties, if you pass along some of those economies of scale (synergies). If I understand you right your cost should be limited to raw materials and very little labor, this would could result in a very attractive price point.

Well, actually, there are more Velo's registered with the FAA than COZY's. About 330 Velo's to 210 COZY's. So that's not a good comparison.

 

I do agree with you, Lynn, however, that if the desire is to replicate something along the lines of a Berkut in a molded kit, that the result will be approximately the same as Berkut - turning a bunch of $$$ into a smaller pile of $$$. It's not possible to sell the kits for a 2-place composite tandem high-performance plane for what Vans can sell RV kits for.

 

But hey, there's always people with more $$$ than business knowledge - just witness 90% of the folks in the homebuilt airplane kit market.

LOL, but Marc is absolutely right. The first question one should ask, is what are the needs of my intended clients (# seats, speed, range, payload, etc.). Once you've answered these questions, you will know if a Berkut style airplane will work, My guess is no, but a variant of the Berkut could (if it could be less expensive (with deminish specs maybe ?), maybe a 4 seater, etc.).

Start with the NEED of your client and then see how they can best be met. Also check what's out there in term of competition. Don't just assume your muffin will be better than that of the competition.

Oh, and don't forget the price, people tend to be ....

You may ask David Orr (a.k.a. Beagle) he is very knowledgable about the LongEzs. He does charge a small fee but it's very reasonnable.

He will point you in the right direction an he could even tell you about EZs for sale that are not "publicly advertise" sort of speak if the one you are looking at turn out to be "not to your liking".

I have ask Mr Orr to look around for me and he gave me very good advice. I'm just waiting a bit for the CAD $ to overtake the US $... should be sometime this summer....

Hope this help.

Here is a link to is web site:

http://www.canardfinder.com/

Putting the blanket on a Turbonetics ceramic ball bearing water cooled turbo should not be a problem, have the turbo and pipes hi-temp ceramic coated.

Do not put wrap on any pipes, like Lynn said it shortens the life of the pipes but more importantly it also prevents inspection.

Pipes are going to crack and break somewhere, sometime, especially with a turbo, especially with a rotary, inspect often and see it coming, wrap it up and what? wait for the surprise?

Tracy's ceramic coated pipes worked like magic, the heat goes out the pipes not into them.

...Chrissi

Lynn mentioned that aircraft grade pipes can handle the added heat caused by them being wrapped, but the inspection thing is a good point... If Tracy's coumpound is as effecient then it could very well be the way to go. If not, then this could be an alternative for thise that continue to have heat issues (even with Tracy's coating).

...... for the same reason you have sight gauges as a backup to the sending units.

Can you actually tell if its down and locked by looking through the glass port ?

Flying installation in a Long EZ

Anyboby know this guy ?

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php

Just scroll down in the experimental section (he is not in the Long EZ section)

Here are some pictures

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=338558&ZOOM=/classified_files/338558-GN-landing.jpg

...... off the subject:

No window to check the nose gear?

Why not just put in micro switches with indicator leds (for up down) ?

No. The front profile of the 20B is the same as the 12 & 13B.

If you check out most installations the transition is smoother. No bumps to allow for cylinders & heads of the traditional engine.

That's right you are going normally aspirated... no turbo...

Plans width internal. I rounded the exterior a bit so the midpoint of the exterior is wider.

Hey TMann I don't remember if I asked before, but did you also make the back end wider to fit the 20B in there ?

exhaust wrap is used to keep heat off other components in an engine compartment, it also helps keep the heat in the pipe to make the headers work more efficiently. the warp does have some effect on the life of the pipe material due to the fact that the pipes get hotter because they are not in free air. most aircraft exhaust are made of type 321 stainless steel and this steel can take the heat of a warped pipe with no problem. using the warp on pipes made of type 304 stainless steel or carbon steel will shorten the life of the pipe. with air-cooled aircraft engines the cowling has a large amount of air flowing over the exhaust and in most cases does not need to be warped. but the are many where the engine is tightly cowled and the use of exhaust wrap or heat deflector must be used to avoid the heat from destroying other components.

Thats was me idea... but I have no clue on the effect it could have on the turbo itself (i.e. its bearings) as pointed out by CG. Could be a win loose proposition.

Although I don't see why wrapping the EXHAUST only would be a problem... This would as pointed out Lynn protect the surrounding components from the radiating heat.

Just my 2c

There is two new products out used by guys that race RX-7.*Its called DEI titanium exhaust wrap and the DEI titanium turbo sheild.

As most guys can't seem to keep those rotary exhaust cool, you may want to research these products further.

You can find it here.

http://www.designengineering.com/index.asp

Here are the comments from a guys that race with the aforementioned.

Last but not least. DEI just released a new turbo blanket. I've seen a lot of these through the years and they were all junk to be honest. Hard to install, looked like crap, couldn't really re-use them after removing them once etc. This new product from DEI is just flat out SWEET! It is perfectly formed and sewn to fit the T3 housings. The material is actually made of Lava rock and there is an inner padding/insulation that is made of silica and has a temperature rating of 2,000 degrees F. The turbo blanket has three heavy duty metal bosses embedded in the material so you can safety wire the blanket to the turbo. The install, seriously took me 3 minutes, including twisting the SS wire with the safety wire pliers. I did the dyno pull, Trent stood in front of the car with the laser heat gun. Immediately following the pull he took a temperature reading of the turbine housing, 693 degrees F. The turbine housing, obviously at that temperature was so hot it instantly burns you. I worked on the car that hot. Right after it was installed I ran the car again, identical dyno run. Trent took another temperature reading and at the end of the pull the outside of the blanket was only 260 degrees. That's a drop of 433 degrees. After a few minutes of Trent and I talking about the results he happened to hit it again, the temp had already dropped to 130 degrees. I told him, "If that's right I should be able to touch it and not get burnt." I took the plunge, it was correct. I could lay my hand on the blanket no problem.

This is huge for heat control under the hood. That is a lot of heat gone from the engine bay. DEI is releasing a complete kit that will include the turbine housing blanket, a 2"x15' long roll of titanium wrap (made of the same lava material), ss wire ties for the wrap and safety wire for the blanket. This kit and the turbo blanket by itself will be available next month. Anyone interested we are going to offer both the blanket and the kit at 20% off for pre-orders. The blanket alone is $230 retail, it will be $184 for this introduction. The entire kit is $251 retail and will be $200.

It may be what the doctor ordered for some of you......