Vortal

I work for Bombardier as an aerospace engineer, designing parts of the Challenger 300 interior And on evenings and weekends, i'm trying to develop my own canard to eventually start a business selling it, but this is still a couple of years away...

This was my point from the start concerning the upload this is the message i have i have tried in PDF and ZIP both under the maximum size (1.11MB) So i might just mail it to some one so he could put it on the forum Agree 100%, just proposed to do the drawings à la berkut, not to incorporate the actual design changes from the berkut on my side (nothing to do with open ez) i'll do what i do, but i still want to contribute to the open-EZ project as defined by jon

That wasn't my understanding, i meen, if it's just to use as is the RAF dwgs via TERF and the templates, then the job is done, buy the terf CDs (we won't give them for free here for understandable reasons), get the templates on the master post of the thread and just build the aircraft and call it an open EZ. What i thought is that we re to do a modern drawing package (by redoing the drawings on a CAD system) incorporating all mods certified by RAF and all CPs in the package. so that people can build the aircraft via this open source project. if i'm mistaken, let me know now because i'm not building a "baseline" EZ mine is going to be heavily modified (lets say new) canard, and i wont waste my time to do drawings nobody will use to build an aircraft. might buy them then, we'll see if it's worth it...

Mak, i never said that my aircraft would be a baseline Open-EZ and if you had quote properly what i said, you would had noticed that i was taking about the way the information was provided on the Berkut drawings Jon posted, not about the design itself, but thanks for making me realize that i wasn't that clear in my statement. About John griffiths drawings, what i have read is that he sells the actual paper drawing, i'm more interested in the PDF, or electronic format of the drawing (and manual?) to my understanding, jon started to scan these drawings (correct me if i'm wrong...) and/or break them down to smaller drawings (i'm willing to take them as is, i'll explode them if needed....) Let me know Regards

Hello All! (not mutch action these days here...) Jon I had a question for you concerning this http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1511&page=8 Is it still actual? Is it still possible to bye/get them, i would like to "berkutise" my EZ with a couple of modification incorporated in this aircraft, and the drawings are very nice and comprehensive, i might go this way for my own drawings, or at least get inspirited by them (and eventually make the Open-EZ project benefit from those) Let me know

Yup 1.11MB Here is the message : The guy must have 25 messages! By the way, here are the standards i use for drawings Standards : Colors Black : models, view titles, area fills green : notes, dimensions orientation,dress-up(center lines, construction lines)... Line type Large : Models (except boundary fillets) Narrow: dress-up, area fills, Title All view to have a title, scale (if applicable) and an orrientation (view looking FWD, AFT, LHS, RHS INBD, OUTBD...) Main title in larger character than description of view (scale view orientation...) Acronyms : FWD Forward AFT (self explanatory) LHS Left hand side RHS Right hand side INBD Inboard (looking from outside towards the CL of the Aircraft) OUTBD Outboard (Looking towards outside of the aircraft) CL Center Line REF Reference Dimensioning Everything to be dimensioned so that you don't need to print to scale to get a dimension imprecisely primary positioning to be via FS/BL/WL secondary positioning to be relative to object defined by primary dimensioning. secondary positioning to be used when distance between object is more revelant/critical (for minimal material between holes for example) FS BL and WL values to be circled for better visibility A/C origin axis to be shown (if possible) and to be a circle with alternate black and white quarters Notes : notes to be numbered, and if applied to a view or element of view, number to be triangled if applicable, when a dwg is revised (revision letter change), notes to be added to describe what the changes are for better change tracking voila, if i thing of something else i'll let you know

seem to have problems with the server when i try uploading stuff anyone else?

Ok, i Am pretty much done with the instrument panel (i have a problem to attach it with this reply...) Its called OEZ(as in OPEN-EZ)-043(used in chapter 4 step 3)-31(ATA chapter of instruments)00001(first drawing)-NB(revision not released, a bit like BETA) Give me your input (correctness of the values, and general looks of the DWG) You will notice i have put directions on the typical layup view, the manual doesn't specify any direction, these values ar arbitrary, usually 0,90 45,-45 gives a nice all direction/moment resistance so i decided to put these values, but it was mainly to put something, so it's reference only(i'll put a note on the drawing about that)... Regarding the standards i use i will attach a .txt file with a description of it (easier than a long post) Voila

Ok guys! 1) i have received my TERF cd () I'll get cracking on that! 2) about Mak790 statement i don't agree : once you have started introducing modifications, you never stop and you end up with a mach1twinrock8seatdualmagneticfieldinductedaircraft and your lost, i think in our structure we shoul have a "baseline" defined as Jon has said (i.e. LongEZ+Roncz+airbrake+Ruder bizness) with associated CAD and instructions, manuals and so on, an the in a "modification" section (juste like in this site) you would have all the gizmos (with eventually associated CAD and instruction) that people can chose to use or not, and having a standard will help us in that direction i'll tel you why later. 3) what Jon stated about standards and revisions and release system, i also agree, working as an aerospace engineer, i can tel you what is usually done in the business (what works and what doesn't, we will decide where to go next as a vote, and suggestions). i can also provide you with my drawing standards so people can use it (if we chose to use these ones, i'll write a new reply). (it goes quite deep in details). Having a standards enables us to know what is people taking about (as Jon stated whit the chapters) and also enables easier modification (a DWG with the same format as the standard ones but replacing informations, views, templates... (and these info clearly documented) 4)no problem Jon for Alibre, if you are looking for a more powerful 2D cad (free also) try solidEgde 2D, autocad is better but not free, and this is the best you'll get for free (unless someone has a better chose, i'll go for it!) 5) the website is already structured in chapter on the construction area, lets make a new locked thread and use it as our release database whith the same structure as we ar using now. final : i'm going we you are going, what ever i'll follow Voila thoughts?

I'm also ok with the vote stuff, but if we vote, we need to go with a hole package, to be homogeneous from a drawing to an other, you can't have one template from one standard and the next one from someone else with a different standard... The sharepoint (or similar) is also a good idea to access and order what is beeing done and by who (20 person doing the same job doesn't add much. .. Is someone thinking about an electronic and revised (with the modifications like the air brake...) version of the POH? I redid the title blocks using mfryer's logo (with your permission?) i'll update the initial drawing of the instrument panel with a couple of modification i was thinking about, i will resubmit when it's done Then ill start on one of the airfoils (there to i have ideas) I'm happy it all goes so well on this, i have seen so many projects on many forums dying in the middle of nowhere because standing on one person's shoulders, but for this project, there is a real community, and i'm realy confident about all this (happy note )

Ok hem other question(s) what will be the "baseline" of the Open-EZ, is it the same baseline as the Long or are we directly going for the all modified EZ (roncz canard, large rudders, air brakes...) let me know so i wont bother put in the GU airfoils and so on...

Ok, I have received a couple of DWGs and model form mfryer, i'll check them out for the title block and so on and i'll let you know For the 3D model, i wont be able to help you since i don't use autocad (parametric rules! try alibre xpress for instance, it's free!) Apart form that as you (who's you?) have originals, please check the correctness of my dimensions, to have an accurate product at the end Voila messieux

Ansi E is larger than ANSI F?? (i'll never understand your standards...) Correct me if i'm wrong, E = 44in x 34in ; F = 40in x 28in So yes it's very possible to put it on a E format, no problem.... My next stages are to check these drawings vs the templates you have given on the Open-EZ main thread and go thru does TERF CDs as soon as i have them in hand and the draw... I suppose that with the building manual of raiki (or others), we'll have a pretty updated set to build this aircraft.

Thanks, Even in France, the aerospace industry is in inch (unfortunately ) and i suppose you prefer this to cm's, i only removed the fractions (to much of a headache) For The F size, i'll try to make the bulkhead fit in a smaller sheet, but i wouldn't think so, the hole point is tho have a 1:1 scale, just like the original, to be able to work as a transfer sheet (again like the templates)

This is what i had in mind The drawing is far from finished, i still need to see the instruction from the TERF cds (corresponding chapters), but it's mainly what i'm thinking about This drawing is a detail drawing of the instrument panel (not checked over the templates) there will be assembly drawing for installation purposes... Any remarks? BTW, This is scale 1:1 and on a printable standard format (ANSI F format), your local print shop will understand, and no headaches with proper scaling the sheet, do not resize on the iner box, as this is the drawing area and not the external limits of the sheet. INSTRUMENT PANEL - DRAFT.pdf

Ok then, i'll start with the templates then, i know it's been done before, but right now it's the only thing i have in my hands... still waiting for tef CDs Any format wanted? (PDF i suppose) I will do one part/one model/one drawing and use ANSI format for prints Please give me your inputs in case of discrepancies in format/sizes i'll try to do my own checkings but still i do not have any originals and by the way, i do not guaranty or take any responsibilities what so ever on the information on my drawings (to cover my back)

I had the same issues with copyrighted stuff... templates are one thing, the hole project (TEF CDs lets say is an other) I will still do the aircraft in cad version with associated DWGs for my personal use, and if Jon wants to have them as soon as the the copyright question is sorted out some way or an other, i'll be happy to give them to the OeZ project My objectifs is to create and sell my own kits (not an OeZ, some thing else), and this is a pretty good exercise on how should be presented the drawings and manuals and have people comment on my work.

Seeing your model confirms me that the TEF CDs are going to help Did you do the hole aircraft?

By the way, I'm doing the 3D CAD model of the Open EZ and i'm already having trouble with the templates, not in there accuracy but in there spacial positioning (specially F22 To high or instrument panel to low) I'm wainting for my TEF CDs, maybe this all will make sens when ill get them, if not ill let you know The purpose of this is to have a baseline model of the OeZ as a basis for modification (and also do a virtual buildup of the aircraft before spending cash on materials and tools) and also have a more detailed (specially in dimensions) detail drawings of each component Next will eventually be to create the Dwgs usable for construction with BOM and so on... Intentions or incorporations : long nose, more rounded section, canard modifs, main wing and winglet modifs... reading the post in the forum is instructive on what is useless to try out (Flaps for example) an want could be done VorTaL PS : French is complex because of onprononced letters and the gender of words (masculin or feminin)... (i'm from there so i have a bit of experience on that point)

The mistral website has been updated today apprently...

Or maybe just move forward the single (or multiple) exhaust pipe with hot gases shooting 45degres downwards (see quick and dirty hand drawing attached) This would let hot gases (here in red) cool up and mix with the cold free stream (in blue), and the air arriving on the prop would be cold if not cool enough...

The point of this message was to see if they should incorporate the Roncz template in the Open-EZ package or not, if RAF was still selling the templates they just didn't wanted to impact RAF's remaining business (or what's subsisting of RAF) So the day which RAF will definitively be dead, they will add all the options of the Long EZ in the Open EZ templates, utile then, you can buy these option at RAF