Arbiter Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Hey Folks, It's been a while since I've posted.... Been working on a project of my own. Coming down to some initial sizing decisions around the engine. The issue I have is I need ~180-220 hp to meet my cruise constraint on the design. The aircraft will cruise @ 12,000 ft, and 150-160 Kts. As we all know, a normally aspirated engine's Horsepower dies down with altitude. I have given some thought to turbocharging, which would get me the required horsepower at altitude I need to maintain the cruise speed I want with my given power loading. The issue I am running into is Lycoming's Thunderbold TIO-360 starts at $60K.... The IO-360 @ ~$34K..... Is there any way to SAFELY convert the IO-360 to (T)IO-360 for cheaper than the $26K they want for the upgrade? I called them and was told the turbo itself was $15K, which I find hard to believe (Maybe I am wrong, but car turbos are like $3K for a big one). In addition, they also said the pistons are a bit different and they added oil squirters, presumably to allow the generation of that horsepower at altitude... I am looking for your thoughts on this, and if anyone has heard of a conversion like this and about how much to expect to pay... For $60K I'd rather go with a bigger engine normally aspirated.... Anywho, thanks for the input up front. -Chris Z Quote Chris Zupp ~Aircraft Designer~ Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer Private Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilK Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 You might want to check with Bart Lalonde at http://www.aerosportpower.com. He is a great guy to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbiter Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 Neil, Thank you VERY much for the link! I noticed he doesn't seem to do turbocharging though. Have you heard of anyone who has had that done by him, or a site like his that sells turbo-ed engines? Thanks very much for the reply! -Chris Quote Chris Zupp ~Aircraft Designer~ Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer Private Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longez360 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 You might want to check with Bart Lalonde at http://www.aerosportpower.com. He is a great guy to deal with. I completely concur. I recommend AeroSportPower and Progressive Air work without reservation. They don't get better than Bart (and Sue) in terms of product knowledge or for customer service. I've met them twice. Chris, he's the man to ask. Quote Cheers, Wayne Blackler IO-360 Long EZ VH-WEZ (N360WZ) Melbourne, AUSTRALIA http://v2.ez.org/feature/F0411-1/F0411-1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbiter Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Wayne, Thank you very much! I am starting to lean much more towards a turbocharged IO-360 installation in my design. The difference in preliminary sizing is 30-40 Hp... The trick is now going to be finding an engine TIO-360 source that is like $30K for re-built or ideally factory new. I will talk to the two folks suggested in this forum. Thank you all for your replies so far! More are always welcome too. Has anyone successfully turbocharged a non-turbo-ed IO-360 or other lycoming? I'd greatly enjoy a discussion about those experiences! Thanks! -Chris Quote Chris Zupp ~Aircraft Designer~ Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer Private Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZUCZZ Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hi, About that turbo thing :-) Alfons Gessl has an TIO motor in his Velocity. The heating problems in the area of the turbo are immense and has various resultant problems. It melted (nearly thru) the one aileron linkage on that side. now fixed. Anyway, this problem has been going on for 2 years and he is considereing (so i understand) removing the turbo. FWIW. About your intended cruise of 150-160 kts at 12K ... just a 180hp would do that, IMHO. regards Chris Van Hoof Cozy Mk IV, IO-360. Johannesburg Quote I live in my own little world! but its OK, they know me here! Chris Van Hoof, Johannesburg, South Africa operate from FASY (Baragwanath) Cozy Mk IV, ZU-CZZ, IO-360 (200hp) 70x80 prop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbiter Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Hi Chris! Thank you for the information! The turbo will definitely heat up!... If it's an exhaust type, the turbo uses exhaust gasses to power the turbine and thus the inlet impeller. You definitely don't get something for nothing, and the additional heat load will have to be accounted for! I am not sure 180 HP will be enough, the aircrafts MTOW is around 2700 lbs, predicted, which is around Velocity size. Velocities use IO-540's with a bit more hp than 180 I believe... However, if I drop my cruise sizing point to 8,000 ft, then I can get down to about 210 hp required for 160 kts. The issue I am running into is my Weight/Power ratio is already 15.5, which is higher than most home-builts. So, as an engineer, I have to skeptical that I will be able to go toe-to-toe with Lancairs and Velocities in cruise speed with LOWER horsepower . One of the issues I found that you run into is some websites specify only the speed, and not the % power! Lancair for example says 215 mph as the cruise speed. But when I asked them, they said with the IO-390, the speed would really be 207 mph at 75% power.... Not much of a difference, but they may be quoting 85% power. So, bottom line is, there's a lot to think about, and overall, what is really important, 160 kts cruise @ 75% power, or the $20K price difference?!? I think the price difference will win out, unless I can find a turbo-ed TIO-360 for $30K or so... We'll see. Thank you for your input and putting up with my ramblings . -Chris Hi, About that turbo thing :-) Alfons Gessl has an TIO motor in his Velocity. The heating problems in the area of the turbo are immense and has various resultant problems. It melted (nearly thru) the one aileron linkage on that side. now fixed. Anyway, this problem has been going on for 2 years and he is considereing (so i understand) removing the turbo. FWIW. About your intended cruise of 150-160 kts at 12K ... just a 180hp would do that, IMHO. regards Chris Van Hoof Cozy Mk IV, IO-360. Johannesburg Quote Chris Zupp ~Aircraft Designer~ Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer Private Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Tomblin Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Have you seen the UL 520 Turbo ? 220hp to 15,000ft. However they aren’t that well designed, use a small oil sump, I hope they have finally switched to Forged pistons. See this: I wanted 6 cyl and a turbo, but not the issues Ive seen here. http://www.myulpower.com/p/blog-page_27.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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