Cozy Build/Epoxy fumes?

[KB2QQM]

I am pretty sure that I will be building the Cozy MKIV, and have begun to prepare a shop..

The space I have is the basement, and half of the garage. I want to start out in the basement for the smaller parts and then move to the garage for the fuse/wings etc.

I have never worked with epoxy in aircraft, but was wondering if there are overpowering fumes from the epoxy curing,that will make our house stink. Something I might be concerned about with a young child in the house. Would it be better just to set up the 1/2 garage, and leave it at that.

Any ideas or suggestions welcome.

Greg

[Sjoslin]

Your question was one that I had considered for a long time. I bought my plans about a year ago (1278, maybe one of the first AC Spruce sold) and have been on hold for awhile while other "life events" worked themselves out.

 

That being said, I chose to use the MGS products for the virtually zero odor... I too will start on the basement and graduate to the full two car garage as needed... I went to another builders layup who was using the MGS and was really surprised by the lack of fumes / odor / etc. Whether this equates to "safe for infants" I seriously doubt it, but its a far sight better than some epoxies I have been around. And yes, I realize that just because I / we can't smell it doesn't mean its not harmful...

 

In any event, in the next few weeks I will begin building the bulkheads and sides... my kids are older though, (6,6,9, and 13) and actually anxious to help Dad build an airplane.. (seems none of their freinds Dad's do anything so nutty.. go figure)

 

Good luck deciding, check the MSDS sheets for all; the approved epoxies and decide which will be safest for your own situation,

 

Stew

[Jon Matcho]

I am in the same situation, 2 kids, basement, and attached 2-car garage.

 

For smell, the MGS brand epoxy is the way to go. Heck, it's the way to go regardless. You'd have to put it on your lip to smell anything. The hardener has a nasty smell, but only if you get up close to it.

 

I chose the garage not so much because the fumes, but for the dust that is created. I just didn't want fiberglass particles being filtered by my family's lungs as they were distributed from the basement's central air system. Sure, you could seal the dust off, but then there's the odorless epoxy fumes worry.

 

If you can squat on half of your 2-car garage, that might be the best way to start. It was for me, and have master plans to complete the takeover of the entire garage this spring.

[KB2QQM]

Thanks for the replies and ideas. I will probably do the build in the garage. It's a little cold right now here in Wisconsin, but I found a propane...ventless heater at lowes for like 85 bucks...and will build a curing tent out of plastic and a small fan driven heater. I will eventually take over the garage or find another house.

I read alot of other posts as to the safety of using gloves and respirators when working with the different epoxies...so I guess I am a little overwhelmed at the different types. I have started the garage/basement cleanout on ebay...to help with some of the expenses so it should be interesting. I am also futzing around with the cozy in Xplane..and it is fun.. I will probably be buying the plans soon.

Although I was .....contemplating building the Bearhawk. I need good speed, and 4 seats... I am not the smallest dude in aviation at 260#, but I guess I could use building as a goal to lose weight and the atkins deal. It's worked before.. I just really don't want to build for like 10 years. I want to get it done...and get on with my life....flying...

[Jon Matcho]

I read alot of other posts as to the safety of using gloves and respirators when working with the different epoxies...so I guess I am a little overwhelmed at the different types.

I am using MGS 285 and nitrile gloves. I don't use a mask unless I'm sanding, but am on the fence about using a vapor mask when working with the epoxy. Some say to put cotton liners beneath the nitrile gloves, and even big butyl gloves over all that, but I don't see the point just yet. I wear long sleeves as well, even in the summer. Some don't.

 

Although I was .....contemplating building the Bearhawk. I need good speed, and 4 seats...

Build what you feel is best for you (or buy), but the Cozy will give you good speed and 4 seats.

 

I am not the smallest dude in aviation at 260#, but I guess I could use building as a goal to lose weight and the atkins deal. It's worked before..

You know what you have to do, for gravity's sake. :-)

 

I just really don't want to build for like 10 years. I want to get it done...and get on with my life....flying...

This is the biggest problem with building from plans 100%, and why I wanted my first project to be a kit. I wanted it to be a canard, but couldn't afford the Velocity, and so I went with the Cozy. I am hopeful that www.aerocad.com develops a healthy business turning out quality parts, because I possibly might want to buy a year or two from them.

 

Another option is to wait for someone to give up on their Cozy project. It usually happens around Chapter 6, but sometimes later. These offerings tend to appear every 3-4 months or so.

[Dan Tomlinson]

<A>Thanks for the replies and ideas. I will probably do the build in the garage. It's a little cold right now here in Wisconsin, but I found a propane...ventless heater at lowes for like 85 bucks...and will build a curing tent out of plastic and a small fan driven heater. I will eventually take over the garage or find another house.

 

<B>I read alot of other posts as to the safety of using gloves and respirators when working with the different epoxies...so I guess I am a little overwhelmed at the different types. I have started the garage/basement cleanout on ebay...to help with some of the expenses so it should be interesting. I am also futzing around with the cozy in Xplane..and it is fun.. I will probably be buying the plans soon.

 

<C>Although I was .....contemplating building the Bearhawk. I need good speed, and 4 seats... I am not the smallest dude in aviation at 260#, but I guess I could use building as a goal to lose weight and the atkins deal. It's worked before..

 

<D> I just really don't want to build for like 10 years. I want to get it done...and get on with my life....flying...

A: But - you do have a garage - I'm in a "tent"! in the same climate 2-3 days later!

The "early" part of the build, chapters 4 & 5 are not space hogs, and they're flat, so I'd do them inside, and there is almost no sanding, so minimal dust. That couple of months will give you a fuselage in the garage (end of chapter 8) around early July, just in time to visit EAA for additional parts.

 

B: Nitrile gloves, vinegar and "Lava" soap for washup will do most of it.

I use latex (cheap) over the nitrile, mainly because I take off the latex when I'm done a layup then go over and check (and touch) the uncured epoxy. Bad habit, with bad results for me if I take all the gloves off. Cotton under the gloves absorbs sweat and is a little cooler. I don't use a respirator, but always have fans and ventilation in the shop.

 

C: Size is an issue - but checkout threads here and the other place on minor enlargement possibilities - how depends on the weight distribution - shoulders, gut or butt.

 

D: What I've seen with kits doesn't seem to cut the build time that much. Adds a lot to the cost though! You can have a fuselage basically inside 6 months, another 6-9 months for wings, canard and spar. Add strakes, canopy, nose and the airframe is basically done.

A while to make it look pretty, then a noisemaker on the back and you're done.

 

IF you can't commit 2 days a week or equivalent, you're not really interested in finishing in great time. You MUST visit the project EVERY day. It may not show accomplishment every day, but even 5 minutes doing something in the shop (even cleanup!) is critical to finishing the project!

 

/dan

[argoldman]

A: But - you do have a garage - I'm in a "tent"! in the same climate 2-3 days later!

The "early" part of the build, chapters 4 & 5 are not space hogs, and they're flat, so I'd do them inside, and there is almost no sanding, so minimal dust. That couple of months will give you a fuselage in the garage (end of chapter 8) around early July, just in time to visit EAA for additional parts.

 

B: Nitrile gloves, vinegar and "Lava" soap for washup will do most of it.

I use latex (cheap) over the nitrile, mainly because I take off the latex when I'm done a layup then go over and check (and touch) the uncured epoxy. Bad habit, with bad results for me if I take all the gloves off. Cotton under the gloves absorbs sweat and is a little cooler. I don't use a respirator, but always have fans and ventilation in the shop.

 

C: Size is an issue - but checkout threads here and the other place on minor enlargement possibilities - how depends on the weight distribution - shoulders, gut or butt.

 

D: What I've seen with kits doesn't seem to cut the build time that much. Adds a lot to the cost though! You can have a fuselage basically inside 6 months, another 6-9 months for wings, canard and spar. Add strakes, canopy, nose and the airframe is basically done.

A while to make it look pretty, then a noisemaker on the back and you're done.

 

IF you can't commit 2 days a week or equivalent, you're not really interested in finishing in great time. You MUST visit the project EVERY day. It may not show accomplishment every day, but even 5 minutes doing something in the shop (even cleanup!) is critical to finishing the project!

 

/dan

 

Although kit time savings being small might seem the case, a tremendous amount of time is spent in smoothing the wings, canard and fuselage just to make the bird filyable let alone presentable. This activity probably represents the single largest expendature of time in building.

 

Just think of the hundreds of square feet of rough, uneven material that you must fill, conture, fill conture, fill conture (did I mention filling and conturing) and smooth. You will not be able to understand this unless you have done it.

 

One main advantage of the kits is that the outside surfaces, at least, are made in a mold. The time savings of having the parts premade is also significant. One thing that you know, if you are building, or will know when you start is that all procedures take much longer than you expect them to, not to mention the remakes necessitated by incorrect interpretation of plans or the many other factors that creep into this "sport".

 

Smoooooooth

 

Rich