Nose Shape

[Jon Matcho]

Jon,

 

Any specifics on the AeroCanard nose mod you're thinking of?

The Cozys and AeroCanards have 2x2 seating, making for a wider fuselage. Long-EZs on the other hand have tandem seating, and is why I personally feel a more pointed nose on a Long-EZ works better aesthetically than on a Cozy/AeroCanard.

 

Since I am building a Cozy+AeroCanard, I am on the lookout for the perfect nose shape, which I am of the opinion is NOT pointed for this design.

 

Attached is one idea, but I'm even thinking to make less pointed.

[Waiter]

When carving the nose, remember that the plane is parked on its nose. I went through this when I carved mine back in the late 80's

 

Waiter

[Jon Matcho]

Ah... but actually another reason to make a 5' long nose and stuff it with 50 lbs of lead in the front -- so you no longer need to park it nose down.

[mfryer]

I have been mulling the nose shape of my Long-EZ since I have begun the project and I think I have a strategy. I am planning to extend the nose about 6" at this time for two reasons:

 

1). I don't really like the look of the plans build nose. It has a boxy look and doesn't seem to have a nice smooth curve. And I do not think I would like a really long nose that some folks have. Waiters, Waynes look super duper cool however, I just want a comprimise and something a little different.

 

2). I have not decied on a power plant, however I am leaning towards an O-320. That being said, from what I have read to date, I may need to move many components forward and/or balast the nose. The modest extention may allow for more room for these things.

 

My SL-30s have already been made to plans so my strategy to extend the nose is to place a 2.5" foam block to move the NG-31 forward and then add enough foam forward of NG-31 to make a nice shape. The bottom of the nose will follow the plans curve to ensure it can still be parked without the pitot hitting the ground.

 

If anyone can think of any reason to advise against this, or has any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks

 

Martin

[longez360]

If you're using an electric nose gear retract (Wilhelmson, Wright etc) moving the battery in front of NG31 is not necessary for a Lyc 320, or a 360. I believe a long nose looks better however.

 

You will see many long nose contours that are not natural, and consequently they look like they have been dented when viewed either shaded or in the sun. Few show continuous lines from the firewall. They need to be created using some 'rules of thumb' or mathematcially.

 

Geometrically speaking;

 

1. The nose needs to start with the NG30 lower shape. The curve gets tighter in radius as WL increases with decreasing FS. If that curve is continued naturally, that allows the aircraft to sit on it's nose and keeps the pitot out of the dirt.

 

2. The sides curve with decreasing FS at the same rate as the fuselage sides were pulled in from front seat to F22. The extension of those side lines will eventually intersect line 1 above. The curves in my case matched the AN5312 pitot closure angle.

 

3. With a round pitot, the nose changes from the F22 location (essentially rectangular) to a circle. The nose should never have a circle along it's length until you hit the pitot.

 

4. The top nose lines start with the canopy rails. REcommend: Core your canopy thru canard cover thru pitot in one hit, glass them in one hit. knife trim out the canard and canopy (I had already completed the layups on the canard fairing faces for & aft, so I simply knife trimmed it out).

 

5. The Fuselage bottom to side radii, decreases in radius to the pitot. Assume linear reduction. Any change to that will make your nose look dented.

 

If I were doing it again I'd still create equations for those curves mathematically (coz I enjoy math), but I would create a more rounded nose tip.

[mfryer]

If you're using an electric nose gear retract (Wilhelmson, Wright etc) moving the battery in front of NG31 is not necessary for a Lyc 320, or a 360. I believe a long nose looks better however.

 

No electric lift. I am using a stock brock assembly. However as I approch the big 40 I seem to be not quite the stick I used to be. Perhaps ballast will come naturally.

 

1. The nose needs to start with the NG30 lower shape. The curve gets tighter in radius as WL increases with decreasing FS. If that curve is continued naturally, that allows the aircraft to sit on it's nose and keeps the pitot out of the dirt.

 

understood. I plan to follow the plans curve up to the pitot to ensure I don't have a lawn dart.

 

3. With a round pitot, the nose changes from the F22 location (essentially rectangular) to a circle. The nose should never have a circle along it's length until you hit the pitot.

 

that makes sense...

 

4. The top nose lines start with the canopy rails. REcommend: Core your canopy thru canard cover thru pitot in one hit, glass them in one hit. knife trim out the canard and canopy (I had already completed the layups on the canard fairing faces for & aft, so I simply knife trimmed it out).

 

Concern here. Are you recomending I hold off on the nose untill I have the canopy? Perhaps I could make a false canopy (just the front area). Or perhaps the canopy would be an interesting diversion....Hmmmmm

 

Thanks Wayne, you have given me some further things to ponder. Good input.

[Edge 513]

Tony's LongEze nose was one of the best Longeze nose /slash/ Berkut hybrid noses I have seen, and IMNSHO something along those lines looks great! The plans built LongEze nose is a classic though. Many good looking Cozy's and Longs/Vari's have stock noses. Nat has a stock nose and it looked very good. Marc as well. I think how they get painted or not painted also affects some of the appearance. Some guys seem to have an "eye" to make the shape "right" even though it is stock. Some guys just are not sculptors and create a cobby stock nose. Heck, even a couple of the longer noses look REALLY odd. It's all in the guy who is sculpting that nose. Creating a flowing curved shape longitudinally as well in section means trying to go slow and sand the shape and look at it from the proper vantage point and do this several times. It's a FEEL thing. Its easy to go to fast and then you have to visualize how you are going to add with the micro finish to fill a too sanded area. No problem though, it's just glass work and is easily done.

Have fun with it. FWIW, for me blending the nose into my canopy was very important as I wanted to have my acrylic extend as far forward as possible and sculpt around it with the nose top to try and not have a blunt junction between the two in profile. This was tricky because I needed space for the FHC standoff, so my hinges would work. Not a factor for you, I know.

I think if I was building a Long, as well as getting a longer nose done I would be asking Todd to blow me a canopy that was about 2-3 inches longer raked/sloped in front and that would REALLY add to the whole snarkiness of the design. I would have my canopy in hand. and notched on the IP to build the nose and nose top too, [as I actually did- and I liked the results], if I was to say something here.

YMMV

 

But thats my .02 Cents

 

Below is a pic of Eric Cobbs nose, which isn't to long but adds a nice effect. Notice what would happen with the longer raked/sloped front of the canopy?..It would mirror the nose shape more, and be tasty!!

[TMann]

I detailed how I did mine in this post:

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3296

 

I did end up rebuilding it. This REALLY is not a good fit with the vacuum bag technique (experience talking here.) It had a tendency to twist slightly possibly due to the heat and or vacuum pressures. In any case it was not good.

 

I drew it all out in Autocad and then plotted each station but you can do the same with a little imagination.

 

You need to make templates that accurately depict the top profile as well as the side profile. You should be ablbe to come up with these by using a piece of .25 mdf and a long piece of .75 x .75 pine. Have someone(s) hold the pine aligned along the fuselage and then trace that outline onto the mdf. Leave a blunt end (about .75 from the centerline) which you will round off later.

 

Stack your foam and hotwire to your templates to block out the shape.

 

To make your incremental templates, start out with the shape you have at F22. I sliced my rough shape starting at FS 16 then every 4 inches thereafter. That will give you a break at FS 0.0.

 

Now measure the height of each segment and compare that against the original FS 22 template you made. You should be able to go someplace like Kinkos and photo copy your template to the proper size once you get the pecentage (i.e. Height of FS 16/ height of FS 22 etc.)

 

On my second attempt, I left the inside surface as a straight surface and curved the exterior. I figured that by curving the interior as I had in my first attempt, I was in effect decreasing the structural integrity of the nose which has to be able to handle the loads of the battery in steep turns as well as the shock of the nose gear on landings and who knows if maybe you might have a landing with the nose gear retracted.

 

I also reassembled the inner (waste) cores and used them to help maintain the shape until I finished the exterior glass.

 

I used Tony's nose drawing from ez.org as a starting point but it really is quite long. I believe my nose terminates at about FS -19.

 

Clear as mud?

 

Oh ..... one last thing. If you plan properly, you can slide the nose section on over the NG 30s as one piece and then glass on the NG 31.

[mfryer]

But thats my .02 Cents

 

Below is a pic of Eric Cobbs nose, which isn't to long but adds a nice effect. Notice what would happen with the longer raked/sloped front of the canopy?..It would mirror the nose shape more, and be tasty!!

Thanks for the pennies. I agree that Eric Cobbs nose looks really good and my goal is to have something similar. Not an outragious long nose and not the stubby stock nose (yes I agree some stock noses still look good). Your ideas with the canopy would be interesting to see, however I like the looks of the stock canopy.

 

At this time I am seriously considering ordering the canopy to ensure that I have a really nice smooth and proper looing transition from canopy through canard to the pitot.

[mfryer]

I detailed how I did mine in this post:

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3296

 

Yes I did see your post and I think it is an interesting approach. However I feel comfortable shaping the nose freehand, even more so if I can employ my brother who is an artist/sculptor/carpenter and has some body work experience.

[longez360]

mfryer,

 

Building the entire upper section of your aircraft concurrently works well. If you can afford to buy your canopy bubble, and do this, I absolutely recommend it. I also built my canopy frame, instrument panel cover area, canard cover and nose using styrofoam. I hotwired what I could; nose bottom, nose to canopy top, and nose sides. I also hotwired the canopy foam although not as accurately as the nose. I then sanded the entire area to templates. Worked great. It was one of the great joys of the project, becasue it gave my aircraft it's individual character.

 

Pre-downdraft pics of my aircraft best representing nose attached.

[mfryer]

mfryer,

 

Building the entire upper section of your aircraft concurrently works well. If you can afford to buy your canopy bubble, and do this, I absolutely recommend it.

I just got done sending and email request for a quote from Todd's canopies. After seeing all the photos of your craft it would be difficult to justify not following your advise.

 

When you say "entire upper section" are you also referring to the cowling as well?

 

I understand that I missed your Long at last years Arlington fly-in by a few hours. Are you planning to return? I plan to arrive more prepared with extra batteries and memory for my camera and expect to gather as many notes from builders as I can.

 

Thanks

 

Martin

[Phil Kriley]

 

Pre-downdraft pics of my aircraft best representing nose attached.

Pretty bird - and it's not white! Would you mind sharing with us the paint and color that you chose?

 

I've been leaning towards the pearl-white color that is used on the Cirrus plane - paint made by PPG.

[longez360]

Martin, thanks for the kind words.

 

When you say "entire upper section" are you also referring to the cowling as well?

 

WB: I didn't, no, because I made my own upper cowl to suit airframe and engine (undecided at that time) afterwards.. However if you are using somebody else's cowls I would certainly do it if I could. It would mean hanging an engine and prop extension and raising the aft canopy to get a smoot line all the way to your spinner. At first it sounds like extra work, but I'm happy with the results.

 

I understand that I missed your Long at last years Arlington fly-in by a few hours. Are you planning to return? I plan to arrive more prepared with extra batteries and memory for my camera and expect to gather as many notes from builders as I can.

 

WB: I left Seattle back in 2005 and am now back in Australia. Unfortunately, I only ever made Arlington in 04. I'm a little tired of airshows, but Arlington would have me there every year if I was still living stateside. Great fly-in with great people.

[longez360]

Pretty bird - and it's not white! Would you mind sharing with us the paint and color that you chose?

 

 

I've been leaning towards the pearl-white color that is used on the Cirrus plane - paint made by PPG.

PPG Deltron 2000, DBC Basecoat, color OEM LY7W Mfg: VAG/Volkswagon, LVI, DBC 37637H, SILBERSEE

 

Looks great, but was Seattle weather color... I dissapear against cloud... Not good. It's bad enough against a blue sky, here ;-) I'm pleased I have a good strobe system.

 

My aircraft now has patches of grey primer on it for all the mods I've done since. Next is the canard and both winglets. Soon, I'll be painting again. Silver metallic is not recommended for developmental aircraft. :-) As such, on reflection I'd paint it white, or yellow. A fella down here had the idea to paint his LEZ white, with different color squares painted here and there. When you make a mod, paint another square... :-) Not a bad idea.

[mfryer]

WB: I didn't, no, because I made my own upper cowl to suit airframe and engine (undecided at that time) afterwards....

 

...It would mean hanging an engine and prop extension and raising the aft canopy to get a smoot line all the way to your spinner. At first it sounds like extra work, but I'm happy with the results.

Well I don't have an engine, spinner or cowel yet and will not for quite a while. This almost is turning into the old chicken and egg paradox (but not quite).

For now I will just try and make everything clean from the canopy forward and worry about the aft end later (future self, please don't hate me.).

 

WB: I left Seattle back in 2005 and am now back in Australia. Unfortunately, I only ever made Arlington in 04.

I Must have been misinformed, someone I met at Arlington said you were there, or perhaps I misunderstood.

 

Anyhow I just sent off a check to Todd Silver for a canopy. I look forward to it's arrival. This should be fun..

 

Thanks.