TDubs74

On 7/25/2020 at 9:09 AM, Kent Ashton said:

Here are my costs for a Long-EZ, FWIW.  $38531.  That was with 2nd-hand avionics, an $8500 engine, 2nd hand prop and I made the engine mount and most of the parts people buy from the Cozy girrls.  Anyone who can come in under $40K to build one is doing pretty well, I'd say.  The biggest cost-saver is to buy an advanced project.

Awesome Kent.  Really like how yours shows how you went about acquiring some of these parts.

After much eye crossing, here is the basic airframe cost sheet.  A couple of items are missing still, so figure probably a couple hundred more as it is some foam.  The running grand total is in the upper right.  Keep in mind, this has no prefab parts like canopy, cowling, engine mount, or gear legs yet.  If you are thinking of using Eureka for precut cores, add another $1500.  

Also, please do not take these prices or part numbers as gospel.  Make sure you double check.  But it gives a rough estimate as what you are into aside from prefab.  Also shipping could probably add at least another thousand. I know the canopy is about another $700, No idea on the cowl.  Main gear legs are about $600, and so on.  I'll keep updating as I get the info.

Open EZ Build - Sheet1.pdf Open EZ Build.xlsx

For those that might be interested in building the Open EZ, I am putting a spreadsheet together with modern day costs, suppliers, and part numbers.  I am about 70% done.  This would be the average build cost and would exclude engines, props, and avionics due to the fact that those will vary greatly from builder to builder.

I have found that a lot of the info online  is way out of date, or ballpark averages at best.  I should have it done by the end of the weekend and will post here.  From what I am finding so far, is it adds up fast, and the recommendations from those that have gone before, and offer the advice of picking up a project that is for sale on the cheaper side, should not be ignored.  Not to discourage a new build by any means.  It just might surprise you to see the deal you are getting from what raw materials alone cost.  Not to mention the labor saved.  

Anyway, be sure to check back here for the sheet.  

1 hour ago, Kent Ashton said:

 

There is an Excell file of changes here.  It was a little funky to open but I eventually go it opened and it looks pretty thorough.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8ljui4BNLG8NTg5WXBfa3E3ODQ/edit

This.  It is a good quick reference to the changes.

9 hours ago, macleodm3 said:

Will they cut it to the thicknesses required by the plans?

Yes.  They said they cut it to thickness, and that the .2" was not a problem.

6 hours ago, jridge said:

The offer bulk discounts?  I'm gearing up to start a Long EZ soon too and I'll need the same stuff.

Jeff

He said he could get me OEM pricing which beats out Spruce.  Did not discuss any bulk discounts.  As I said if the price is good enough, I will just order all PVC foam from them.  Don't know if that would be considered bulk in their eyes.  I will let you know what I find after I talk with the local sales rep.

I know a lot of guys around here that have put their stuff in RV's.  Nothing but good things to say.

Just got off the phone with a sales rep at Diab, the group that makes Divinycell. I can order direct from them. Price will probably beat out ACS. If that is the case I may order all the PVC foam from them.

He is putting me in touch with the local sales rep tomorrow, so I will let you know what I find out. Good news is, I don't have to spend a month researching foam!

While I cannot answer you question, I can say hello and welcome to the show!

Just starting an Open EZ myself, and from what I am finding so far, "scrounge" will become a daily word to you with either plane.  As long as "can't" doesn't become one, no reason you won't have what you want.  Good luck!

Thought I remember reading something about a shortage as well.  I know Burt was a huge modeler and used balsa extensively.  Probably a reason he did not choose to use it.  But that is purely speculation on my part.

28 minutes ago, Voidhawk9 said:

2. Don't move house every 12 months, it takes a long time to get the workshop set up and functioning again!

I am actually thinking about starting it in the hanger it will be completed in to avoid possible moves.  I know that if you are home you are more likely to work on it, but tons of space and less distraction may be more my preference.  Plus No good workspace at home, so you have to play your hand.

21 minutes ago, Jon Matcho said:

I totally agree! I forgot that my current shop is now my 3rd from when I started (along with my 3rd home). Very disruptive and taxing. Every time you move you have a whole world of more "honey dos" and "must do" before you get to work on your hobbies.

Divorce........Check.

Dogs............None

Children.......None

Home upkeep...Assigned

Checklist complete.  Cleared for Takeoff 

A wife can divorce you for many reasons.  At least you get an airplane out of this way.  lol.

23 minutes ago, macleodm3 said:

It takes 4000 hours to build a Cozy...  so if you build an hour a day and work on it 300 days per year then you have a 13 year build.

Thats what takes time... how many hours per day can you work on it?

And to think Rutan said 500 hrs for a fuselage.  Lol..

I can easily do 3 hrs a day once I get things running smooth.  More on weekends.  I will have to make it a point to just keep at.

4000 for a cozy?  No s***?  Thats a lot of work!

Oldie but goodie.

Hey John!  Good luck and share any pearls you come up with.

24 minutes ago, Kent Ashton said:

For me the holdup is parts--gear legs, canopy, Cozygirrl parts, premade cowls and wheel pants if you want them.

What did you find to be an average lead time on items like these?

Not wanting to spend a decade on my build, I was looking for some input from those around this longer than myself. 

What do you all see as potential pitfalls that turn these projects into 10 or 11 year builds?  I would venture to guess that cash flow would be the number 1 answer, so let's say other than money. 

Go!

4 hours ago, Voidhawk9 said:

Hi Tim, congratulations on the decision. Keep us updated on your progress!

Thanks very much!  Looking forward to it.

Looks like the folks building Cozy's are using Last-A-Foam for the same bulkheads.

1 hour ago, Kent Ashton said:

Page 7 here  http://www.cozybuilders.org/Canard_Pusher/1982-10_cp-34.pdf

Yep.  I saw that.  Only problem is it's the substitute that is now impossible to find.  

Fun, fun, fun right off the bat.  The EZ calls for a few sheets of H-250 foam.  ACS no longer supplies this, and has no recommended substitute.  My question is do you all know of a sub I could use.  Last- a foam is listed at ACS in the correct thickness.  The plans call for 16 cubic foot pounds.  This shows 18.  Does anyone have experience with it, or think it's a good substitute?

I have looked for other suppliers non- aviation related, and have still come up short.  I suppose I could contact the group that makes the Divinicell directly, but at looking for options in case its a phased out product.

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Hello Everyone. Tim here. In the final phases of getting an Open EZ build in motion.  Look forward to talking to all of you!

Is Rough River 2020 still on, or has it been canceled?

1 hour ago, Kent Ashton said:

the plans are copyrighted but Burt has told people he doesn't care, just don't call it a Long-ez because he doesn't want the liability.  All the EZ-related newsletters and additional plans are online.  The FAA does not care--never has.     That's where it stands.

Thanks Kent.  Much appreciated!  

1 hour ago, Jon Matcho said:

Hi Tim!

Kent covered your other questions, but yes, presently you need printed plans. TERF offers these, but are not yet available as part of the Open-EZ download.  

This is a key point. Burt has specifically asked for any Long-EZs build outside of RAF support to be NOT registered as a "Long-EZ". We should all respect that and is why new planes should be called something else, such as an Open-EZ, Xerox-EZ, Tim-EZ, etc.

Thanks to you too Jon!  I can fully appreciate that.  Look forward to hopefully asking more questions!

Hello everyone!  Several years ago I contemplated building an Open EZ, but there seemed to be much back and forth over the legalities of doing so.  I was curious to know where things stand as of 2020 with going down this road.  I see people saying you just can't call it a LEZ.  Anything more than that? Also, do you still need to by the TURF plans?