Air conditioning in FL

[cncdoc]

Hi there fellow "glass monkeys" and the rest of you "glass monkey" wannabees...

I just started on a project that is at the end of chapter 9. I drove to California to get it and I must say it was worth it. I have been doing research for 6 months and arrived at the Cozy decision 2 months ago and have been waiting to pounce. So I pounced.

I plan to use the KISS system (for now) and stick close to the prints etc. However because I live in South Florida, I need air conditioning on the ground and up to about 5K ft to keep from becoming a sweat-drenched mess etc.. presently flying a Commanche 250 with a very able heater and open door prop a/c...not good..

After reading the many exploits of John Slade, and the struggles to make the system work and wife happy and the rest of that stuff I will have to learn, I was wondering if anyone has thought of using a Vortex cooler?

I design, build and service automation and CNC equipment and down south of the Mason Dixon line, many manufacturers require electrical cabinet cooling to keep the delicate control systems from getting fried. There are several types, but the one I like is a system based on the Venturi principle and uses compressed air. It is quite efficient and small (and light). This put a light bulb on in my head (woke up the wife and she made me turn it off) and made me wonder why pneumatics aren't mentioned as actuators in many of the systems of the Cozy? And, of course what about the moving part-less cooling system? It would fit in nice with the 2 moving part engine..

So I tried to secretly email John, to avoid the embarrassment of mentioning something that someone else has thought of and discarded for various reasons, but to no avail...he is incommunicado.

So, in the fashion of others before me with wacky ideas, I run naked (metaphorically speaking) before you and will take the embarrassment like a man.

 

Wincing ever so slightly...

 

Kevin

[dust]

OK, for us dufeses, what the heck are you talking about, splain please, sounds interesting, even though i am a northerner

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

[John Slade]

So I tried to secretly email John, to avoid the embarrassment of mentioning something that someone else has thought of and discarded for various reasons, but to no avail...he is incommunicado.

No I'm not. You have .com at the end of my email address, rather than .net

 

Anyway, forget the email and come up here and say hi.

 

As for secret emails to avoid embarrasement - forget them. This isnt the old style list where people get slammed for brainstorming. Just come out and ask.

 

Yes, please explain the cooling system with no moving parts.

Regards,

John

[Norm M]

Pneumatics could be used to push the nose gear down (you may stiff need some type of spring and over center mechanism), and you could lower the belly board with an air cylinder. Problem is:

 

1: You need a source for high pressure air

2: It is nice to be able to tease the belly board down as you need it, rather than on-off.

3: You need a plan for backups.

 

If you use a reasonable sized air cylinder on the nose gear, you can't get a high enough spring rate with just the air pressure and the diameter of the cylinder. So you would need to use something like the plans over center mechanical system, but replace the worm gear set with a cylinder. Seems to be a lot of work to replace the gear set. You could probably use an air over oil, with an accumulator, but now you are adding a lot of weight back in.

 

The electric actuator for the belly board is very light weight, and the installaton is almost trivial.

 

I think these two systems are a case of where it is a lot easier to write the check for an exsiting nose lift system, and buy the actuator for the speed brake. Or build the plans version.

 

You need a compressor to create the pressure, and an accumulator of some type. Then the valves (which really are slick pieces to work with) need a home. By the time you get the components added up, I suspect the weight is going to be a wash as well.

 

Keep building (and put in a wider piece fo rthe belly board actuator topush on!).

 

Regards-

Norm

[cncdoc]

OK....

One quick reply and I have to hit the sack..

John:

I was going to put .net because I never heard of .com for bellsouth but that's what is at the bottom of your page..

 

I must admit that I was straddling the fence when it comes to homebuilding, I have been flying since 1974 and had a 112 Commander and now I have flying rights to my brother's Commanche 250 (he owes me BIG TIME) but I wanted something fast and big but not addicted to 100LL like the Commanche..anyway, after losing all electrical power one night during a landing and watching my airspeed indicator go like a guage in a Frankenstein movie one time and then seeing the 40 year old aluminum construction and it's foibles, I thought to myself "self, these airplanes are just like all the rest of the manufactured pieces of C--p foisted upon us consumers because we can't make em ourselves...or CAN WE???" So after settling on a Cozy, I was perched on the fence. When I read how a body could sit in a hot tub and engineer the thing and test part fitting whilst naked, why, I was IN!..

So, thanks John. (my neighbors may grow to hate you...but then again, I may lose 40 lbs and charge money)

But I digress..

I work with these things (industrial pneumatics) all the time. Now, I wouldn't change a thing with the nose gear..but pneumatics have improved quite a bit in the last 5 years. The actuators are small and light and versatile, but powerful. I was thinking of a small reservoir and a small on-demand air pump for a/c and perhaps a speed brake or landing light gizmo, gear doors, pop up canopy, brake cooler etc... The electrically controlled solenoids can be mounted anywhere and the higher the altitude, the better they (actuators) work (the harder the compressor works though). The Cooling unit is the Vortec http://www.vortec.com/

it doesn't use high pressure 30 -40 psi, but it uses a constant flow.

I have one you can test if you like, it may work or may not, but when you said the ac system weighed in at 35 lbs, I had to say something...check your email.

My look at the time!

I must be off..

 

Kevin

[Jim Sower]

I had heard of that kind of cooling a number of years ago, but figured it was noisy so hell wouldn't have it. How do you quiet it down? Does it need an intercooler? Can you describe the cycle and components in more detail and a notion of component size and all?

Inquiring minds need to know ... Jim S.

[John Slade]

>I never heard of .com for bellsouth but that's what is at the bottom of your page..

oops. That's been there for months. I fixed it. Sorry.

 

>I read how a body could sit in a hot tub and engineer the thing and test part fitting whilst naked

Wait till you get to the sanding and filling part.

 

>I'd be interested in learning more, but my installation is pretty much complete. How does it work out in terms of BTUs for HP's? You need a lot of BTUs fast, not a few BTU's slowly. Anyone know how many BTUs a car AC unit puts out?

 

>check your email.

I didn't get anything from you yet

[cncdoc]

It's me again.

The device is based on the venturi principle where air gives up it's heat when it is accelerated, it's the same principle that gives us carb ice. that's the Doctor Suess version, but the guys at Vortec have it down to a science. They are cylindrical aluminum devices anywhere from 1 to 3 inches in diameter and 6 to 12 inches long. They weigh less than 3 lbs.

They do make some noise, but not very much (I could mike it and plug it into your intercom jack and with the noise of the air coming through the leaks in the canopy, the engine noise, the airframe leak noise, farting, and ATC on the VHF I doubt if you could hear it)

My (wacky)idea was to put a small compressor on the engine with an accumulator/reservoir and a pulley clutch, mount the cylinder in the back and run a insulated hose to the front, split it and nozzle it. The most cooling is needed when the plane has been sitting so I would have a place to run a air hose from the hangar and cool it off during preflight, (just like the shuttle) disconnect, start up and flick the switch to the compressor then: Voila! AC!

I think it would work. The rest of the pneumatic periphery was a logical afterthought with a compressed air source on board. I agree with Norm, it wouldn't be worth it for the sake of the rest of the stuff.

I know the device works well and it seems like good match but time will tell.

Besides, what kind of fun could you have on a forum where one person had all the answers? Like my Dad used to say "Those who think they know it all are especially annoying to those of us who do"

If I had all the answers, I'd be rich and have someone building a Defiant for me...That's right! a Defiant.

I'd be laying in a hammock between two palm trees supping a marguarita (top shelf) gazing at the rolling Pacific through Top Gun Ray-Bans between my sand-speckled feet on the beach somewhere in Costa Rica talking on my satellite phone and asking what's taking so long and why do you need more MONEY Doggone it!!!

(I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's "sand-speckled toes":eek: )

Well it's Wednesday and it's a workday so I gotta go sell some stuff (My hobby is recording, the Cozy is being built in a recording studio. Im keeping my recording stuff, I moved it all to the office room in the house, now the sound booth is the clean room, but I gotta get rid of some sound reinforcement stuff. Live sound setup doesn't pay well and these alternative music prima donnas think I owe them to let their sound bless the boards and cabinets..I was looking for a new hobby anyway...)

So I must be off...

 

Kevin.

 

PS. Vortec.com has the specs and pictures for anyone wishing particulars on the cooling system.

[dust]

just like to make a small comment, when in arizona nat took me up in his cozy and is is quite diferent than a spam can

 

the temp was about 100

 

we taxied with the canopy open until the runup and then did the run up and took off/ climbed to 4000 in three minuites and then to 6000 in like time and i was never hot.

 

because of the canopy is open the plane never turns into a hot box.

 

enjoy the build

 

Mike

 

oh in case you think it is not hot in az because of the humidity, or lack thereof, you are wrong, it is HOTTTTTTTT

[Wayne Hicks]

It's IS the humidity.

 

We took off in a Long-EZ from Danville, VA, on a 95-degree day. Humidity was high too, probably 70% or higher. I didn't stop sweating until we got to 11,000 feet (as in eleven thousand). Just in time to start the descent and make another swimming pool of sweat in the seat.

 

...Wayne Hicks