dpaton

I suppose I should have detailed this up front. I've spent a lot of hours going over the project in my mind and on paper. I've done lists, spreadsheets, esssays, and tables to try and organize my thoughts and my needs. The Long and the Cozy IV both will fufill them. The tough call is tandem or side-by-side. The rest is all taken care of ;-) -dave

Jon- I suppose GIB is a bit of a misnomer with the Cozy IV on the table as an option. Non-PIC seat is just such a mouthful though... I like the idea of the Velocity, but I think they made too many compromises when they did their design. I'm just not as big a fan as I am of the L-EZ/Cozy IV. There's also the cost of entry...the plans built planes can be built for smallsums over a long time. A Velocity takes a fair amount of initial cash, which I don't have. I admit to a long term love affair with the L-EZ, but the practicality of the C-IV (C4? no..that would be bad shorthand..) is making me think about this very hard. -dave

Waiter- Duly noted. I used to drive by that area regularly. Maybe I'll head out when my schedule settles down a little. Thanks -dave

This is my shameless request. There are many like it, but this one is mine. I'm looking to hook up with pilots of a flying example of both a Cozy IV and a Long-EZ for a ride and some hanger flying in the Chicago (06C, KDPA, KARR, KIKK, in order of preference) area. I'll by gas, lunch, or both depending on the quality of the offer. I'm not begging on my knees, but that's the next step if this doesn't work Circumstances have removed the plans I had from my poessession, and while I have a line on complete replacement versions for both, I want to take the opportunity to make dead sure of which I really want before I spend the next 6-8 years of my life building something other than what I really truly want and need. Disclaimer: I don't have a PPL. I have more than a couple of hours in ultralights, but an UL is not a canard. I've got lots of sim hours in a highly accurate sim, but a sim is not a canard. I've spent weeks and weeks and weeks over the years imagining what it would be like, but my imagination is definitely not a canard. It's been too long since I got a ride for those memories to be reliable. I need a refresher. I don't particularly want to fly the planes I'm looking for demo rides in, since that's a major imposition on the pilot, and I don't feel terribly comfortable with someone else's plane as an unlicensed passenger with no type experience. I could be convinced otherwise if the PIC really wants me to, as I have some yoke time with GA planes, albeit none of it legal. I mainly want to see how comfortable the airframes (still) are for me, how well I deal with them now that I'm beyond the giddy discovery phase, and get a little demo about how they perform, probably from the back seat. I've been the GIB since before I could see over the panel in a Cessna 150 (nearly 2 decades). I have my own headset, and I'm more than comfortable around planes. This is the very last step before I start mixing epoxy. Help? Thanks -dave

Mine are got The nice people at Terf Inc have a licensed compendium for the plans and manuals and everything you need....except the templates. My search is now on for those templates. I've got a couple of leads, but no success yet. As for building, I plan on taking my time. Canard first, then the wings, then the tub. Partially because I can hang wings and a canard from my garage ceiling for zero-space storage, and partly because the tub and strakes will need the most modifying for what I plan, and I'd like to defer it until I can accumulate some more cash. -dave

That should say: I've secured plans. I'm NOW just looking for a complete set of templates. Originals preferred, measured and verified copies are acceptable. If you can loan me your originals, I can get the copies done in short order. That's what you get when you post without proofreading. -dave

There's nothing wrong with that at all. It's how I've lived since 1984. I've got plans on order though, and hopefully I'll get my first epoxy-stained shirt this winter. Welcome to the almost-builders club -dave

I hear you Rich. I'm trying to think of something cooler and more creative than Super-EZ RG, but it seems like a lot of the good names are already taken I'm not worried though. Getting to that point is enough years away that this is nothing more than conjecture. I still haven't got a good lead on templates -dave

Jon- Yup, that's pretty much what I was getting at. There's also the vague and sticky issue of abandoned copyrighted works, unavailable from the original sources (for 20 years now!) yet still of great value to the public. I'm going to specifically discourage any further discussion of it, but I wholly agree with your remarks, especially since the plane I want to build will be for research, not only into my building and flying skills, but into small but meaningful improvements to a proven design to make it more ammenable for long distance flights. I completely understand RAF's wish that we (the modifiers and unlicensed plans builders) seperate ourselves from them, and I'll do so happily. The liability for changes are on the builder alone. No questions asked. As for profit...I'm not sure anyone actually makes money on EZ airframes if you include time invested. As for my templates, I was put on a waiting list for a set to copy last month, but it'll be many more months at the minimum. I'm apparently #11. We'll see if I can't locate real ones before then. -dave

Jamie and Jon- RAF actually had a very nice clarification of the licensing issues in CP issue 46. The nice folks at ez.org posted it here: http://ez.org/cp46-p9.htm Basically, as long as you buy a set that was bought from the factory by someone else, RAF is completely out of the loop. Legally speaking (IANAL, but I work with one who glances over my shoulder from time to time), anything not acquired from RAF is unsupported by them and more or less fair game. The responsibility falls on the seller, the 2nd party, not RAF. That said, I'm fully comfortable building from plans as old as I am, and only receiving support from the existing flying community. As long as my build logs are in order and I can demonstrate quality, proficiency and expertise, I'm OK under FAR 21 and 45. Jamie, I've been in contact with David about plans before. His new email address was posted by in one of the other EZ plans threads. The compendium from Terf was just a better deal for the most part (plans, updates, CPs, and the Composite book for the cost of Section I). I'm still working on templates tho. As far as my choice of the Long, it's partly due to the fact I'll be flying the plane solo mostly, partly because it can be built very inexpensively (until you get to the glass cockpit I want) and partly because I'm so devoutly right handed, I'm not sure I could deal with the reversed control positions in a Cozy compared to...everything else. The incredibly long history and breadth of modifications and enhancements made by builders to the airframe (Cozy, Berkut, E-Racer, et al included) give me a lot of confidence in the original design, both in my ability to build it in a safe, flyable manner, and my ability to tweak it to be uniquiely suited for me. The panel space isn't a huge issue with the lower cost EFIS systems coming out (Blue Mountain's EFIS/Sport comes to mind) and 2 1/2" steam gauges for backup. Being a skinny dude, the width is also less of a concern to me than the length. Most of my 6'4"-ness is leg. I don't fit in much comfortably, and if I want to do long trips, comfort will be a requirement. Actual cockpit space isn't too bad either. Luggage can go in the back seat, and I tend to accumulate travel detritus less than the average bear. I prefer things efficient to bulky, lithe to muscular, etc. The Long, with it's light weight, tandem seating, and long history just seems to fit my personality better. As for the legality of calling it a Long, I'm quite positive that it won't be called a Long-EZ on the registration. Super-EZ RG comes to mind, or maybe a DP-EZ. We'll see, as that's still a number of years off. -dave

Addendum: I'm not just looking for a complete set of the templates. Originals preferred, measured and verified copies are acceptable. If you can loan me your originals, I can get the copies done in short order. Thanks -dave

Jon- Thanks for the support. I've actually been on the hunt for my plans for the better part of 6 months now. I lurk regularly on Barnstormers and eBay, and I've got hooks into a few locals who are closer to the builder community than I am right now. Finding the template set I fear will be much harder than the plans, which seem to be in the $300-$400 range for section 1 alone. I've decided to order the Terf CDs (also about $300) instead of waiting much longer for a complete plans set, and just focusing on the template acquisition (measured copies?). I've got access to printers to make the book myself if I need it, and I can do the microscaling required to match the printouts the same as the originals. I've been slowly building my knowledge of airframes and composite structures since I was about 10 and built my first model boat. I'm not afraid of the nose stretch or the RG. I'm frankly amazed at how durable these little planes are, in spite of my experiences. Burt did an amazing job when he designed the bird. Composite is amazing stuff. There are also enough EZs flying that I'm confident that someone, somewhere, has encountered any problem I might have. It's fitting I'm planning to build an aircraft whose plans are only 5 months younger than myself. 25+ years of builders will be a grand support group I think. Best of luck to us both -dave

I am preparing for my first adventure building a canard, and flying somewhere other than the right/GIB seat. In 1988 I took my first trip to OSH for the show, and was blown away by the smooth lines and compound curves of the composites there. Up until that point, I'd only ever seen and flown in the tin cans my dad rented. At the tender age of 9 I was hooked forever. Cars, boats, and college all got in the way over the years, but I never quit going to OSH when I could afford it ('88-'95, '99, and I'll be back on '06), and I never quit looking at canards. Now, with the acquisition of a house with a building space 2 car garage and stable, gainful employment, I'm seriously considering building the Long-EZ (that I've lusted over since I was too short to see over the panel), partly for the flight performance, and partly because I'm a wiry 6'4", and I need all the legroom I can get. It seems that a Long EZ (with maybe a little stretch)is the place for me. I don't expect to finish quickly, as I don't even have plans and templates yet, and I won't be able to give the project the 15-30 hours a week it would need to be completed 'quickly'. I'm also not planning a precisely stock EZ. Mine will probably end up as a SuperEZ or somesuch nonsense, but with things like the Infinity retracts, a mildly stretched nose (4-6", mainly to round it off a little more and give me room for my feet and some antennae), and a non-Lyc/Cont engine, it won't be too terribly uncommon either. The eventual goal is a craft I can fly around in on the weekends, with semi-regular trips to the coasts from my central (Chicagoland) location. I'm not going to get into the retract vs fixed debate here (there are enough threads already), but I'm more than satisfied that it'll be good for economy on long trips. Me? I'm an electrical engineer with a passion for things that go fast, high, or both. I approach things with precision and attention to detail, the result of both my upbringing and my profession. I tend to do things right, rather than fast. I plan on building a plane that I will fly for a very long time, or until I build another one, which ever comes first. I'm just starting my ground school home study course. After flying right seat for 15 years, it looks like I'll be a quick study. The next step will probably be my Private (nothing light or slow enough to rent at KO6C if I get a Sport cert), but not this winter. Assuming I can get plans, this is going to be a fun ride. It's great to have a forum like this as a jumping off point, along with CSA, ez.org, and the CP compendium. -dave

Yup, this is my me too post. I've seen a number of sets recently with the plans, but not template sheets. It's not really fesable to build an EZ without the templates, so they're a condition of mpurchase for me. I'm looking for a set of plans with the full set of templates, in a condition usable to create a new bird. Unused would be wonderful. I'll settle for used as long as they're not hacked up or have stuck together pages. A copied set will only be acceptable if it has been verified against an original set and contains the full sized templates. Feel free to email or AIM. All offers considered. -dave