Clive Douglas

Hi Len You wrote:- "Electric fans? This thing will NEVER fly! We have several unmanned hovering vehicles in development here, and the single biggest practical problem is the weight of the motors and batteries that is required to produce the thrust to lift through fan propulsion only." I'm probably the least knowledgeable about aircraft in the forum but I think you've missed the point behind the concept on the particular plane. The electric power is supplied by a high performance petrol engine (a Scandinavian made paraglider engine) driving a couple of Permanant Magnet Alternators (PMA's). It is these PMA's that knock out enough electricity to run both fans and any ancillery equipment. Apparently they're hoping to do all this on 5 liters. per hour. Due to the high cost of fuel in UK this is an extremely attractive feature if they can manage it, as unleaded petrol over here is heading towards £4/gallon or $7.20. Although it's difficult for me to say I suspect any port/stbd control would be via the ducted fans turning independently and also the option to vary the output from each fan which would effectively turn the aircraft. Just a thought, anybody else have any idea's. Best Regards Clive

Hi Everybody I don't know if this new design has made the news in the states yet, or anywhere else for that matter. It was recently featured on a BBC program called "The Dragons Den". Budding entrepreneurs have to try and sell their idea to a panel of five millionaires and convince them to invest their own money to get the business on the road to success. Anyway thats enough of the background, have a look at:- www.kestrelaerospace.com This is (currently only) a single seat VTOL aircraft that runs from 2 electrically powered fan units. I'll spare you all the boring details, which are available on the site. I look forward to seeing all your thoughts/opinions on this unusual twist on aircraft propulsion Regards Clive

Hi Jon I'm suffering from a chronic lack of will power, or as a friend says "won't power". Despite the fact that I can't yet fly anything (properly) and have several models part built I couldn't help myself chasing up the plans for the Long EZ from the geocities site of Son Model. In the return email to my enquiry the guy said I would have to pay by Western Union money transfer and no other payment method would be accepted. He is based in Indonesia. Here the UK there have been numerous reports in the media that many people had been ripped off by unscroupulous sellers on ebay using the Western Union system. Now this is not to say this guy is doing the same thing but why do these people insist upon a payment system that offers the buyer no type of security or traceability during the puchase process. Surely if they where a reputable organisation they would at least have a Paypal account, or similar. Has anyone bought these plans (from Son Model - http://www.geocities.com/rclong_ez/index.html), or indeed know of anyone who has done so. Any help or experiances you have had/know about regarding this matter would be gratefully received. Best Regards Clive

Hi John GRP (in the UK) stands for Glass Reinforced Plastic which is just an acronym for fibre glass. In hindsight I agree that the plans must be $48 all in. As you can get them emailed for $30, I may be tempted. There is a plan print & copy shop in town so I'll check with them to see if they can handle tiff image files. I'm supprised that your lagging behing us in electric flight. Practically every model shop in the UK now carries stock of electric models and equipment. A good friend of mine has been using electric models for around two years now and he is probably the most knowledgeable guy in the club. Many of his models have been set up with brushless motors & you wouldn't believe the performance. He has a 2.5mtr glider that he can hand launch into a near vertical climb and it excellerates as it goes up. Very impressive with a price tag to match. Another German company, Multiplex, has come out with several electric models and one of the nicest is the Sonic Liner, http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/parkflier_HP_SFS.htm It flies well and it's twin electric motors have an almost distinctive whine of a jet engine. I'll try to get some pictures next time I see him flying it. Our club is based just outside the Lake District National Park in the North of England in the county of Cumbria. If the pictures work out ok the background will be very scenic although the weather of late is lousy. As I write this it is absolutely poring down, great for gardens but precious little else. Time to get on with some DIY, I'm renovating a house ready to put out to rent. Hopefully it should be complete before the years out. Now where did I put those overall's (called coverall's in the states, I think). Best Regards Clive

Hi John Thanks a lot for all these links. The geocities site show a great model built from plans but unfortunately is to ambitious for me as it is skinned in GRP. I don't quite understand the pricing of the plans ? Do they mean $48 per plan set or per sheet (P.P. meaning per page) i.e. PRICE Printed plans : US$ 48 P.P. Folded Raster image file : US$ 30 sent by e-mail It is certainly worthy of a future project once I get some experience working with GRP. The link to the Velocity kit is great, what can I say. This is one beautiful model. A little to expensive for me at the moment but certainly one to keep an eye on. The only drawback I can see with this model is it's take of run of around 200 feet. I the club I have just joined (and the only one in my local area) have a strip only 60 yards (180 feet) long. By all accounts the farmer who gives his permission won't allow anything any longer. They are negociating with a local engineering company who have a nearby airstrip to see if limited access may be possible in the future. Such a shame about the Fusco fiasco but these things occasionally happen. Maybe they can sort something out in the future. The link to the Vari EZ was a supprise as I had not found any info about canard models in the UK. I guess I need to sharpen up my search engine skills. The shop that sells them is around 100 miles from me so next time I traveling that direction I'll look in and check it out. The electric craze is becoming more and more popular over here. I guess the huge improvement in battery technology over the last few years has help improve flight times and performance. I have never learned to fly anything yet but I do have three models in various stages of build. A friend has advised me it would be better to learn with a nice gentle glider and then move on from there. I have therefore just bought an EPP foam glider from the German maker Robbe, called a Ranger. I had my second lesson yesterday and thing are going great. Just about all of the UK is having a lousy summer which means I'm trying to learn in pretty stiff winds when I'd prefer something a little easier to start off with. My other models are a Robbe Calibre, a 2mtr glider which I hope to have finished in about 4-6weeks. When that is complete I will be finishing of another long standing project which a Precident T240 a rather large 2.4mtr high wing plane much like a Piper Cub. Third in the line up is something I bought via an advert in a magazine from a plans company and the picture was about the size of a big postal stamp. When the plans arrived I immediatly dropped everything and eagerly pored over them and my heart sank. I was no where near good enough to build this model. It is called an Optica, full name the Edgely Optica. An unusual yet very attractive plane (well I think so) with a large helicopter type bubble canopy at the front and a large ducted fan unit immediatly behind it. You can see some picture of the model here:- http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/optica.htm This version is electric with a larger span than mine and the builder has made extensive use of GRP. The plans I have sent me down the all Balsa/Ply route. It is around half complete and I'm struggling to to understand how to carve the canopy structure. Needless to say all these problems are at the bottom of the pile until I get all the other models finished and flying. I will post pics as soon as I can. Hi Rob If you ever do decide to scale down your plans could you please let my know. I know time is tight with many people and I agree with you that your time would be better spent bulding the full size version. Maybe one day in the future you may be getting a little bored over the winter months and this little project might just fill your quiet time. I've just got back from an Model Air Craft Rally at RAF Woodvale just north of Liverpool and what a great show. The best model by far was a B52, 26 foot span and 8 working jet (or gas turbine) engines. Some great demonstration and lots of large models lined up to look at. Unfortunately there were not so may trade stands, only about 30 and prices were no cheaper than normal magazine ads. Despite that it was a good day out and very, very hot. Just briefly getting back to the electric craze, one of our club members said he had heard about a new type of battery that will be coming to the market. He thinks they were called Saf-Ion, have you any info on these new type of batteries? That's all for now, take care everybody Clive

Hi Jon Thanks for your quick response. It looks like I'm heading down the same road as several others after their first sight of a Rutan Long EZ. There's something about these planes that gets under your skin. GRP & vacuum bagging are still a mystery to me but after reading your posting they're no longer a worry, I'll have a go at just about anything. If you have any info about Long EZ and Velocity kits I'd appreciate any info/links you may have. I forgot to mention that I'm in the UK and I'm not aware that these kits are available over here. I'll keep you up to date on any developments. Best Regards Clive

Hi Everybody I've just joined this forum and hope I'm in the right place to get some help. I'd like to get some plans to build a radio controlled Long EZ or Cozy, around 60"-80" wingspan. I have found a place that sells plans for a GRP (Fibreglass) model but this is a method of building I have never used. I would hope to get some plans for a more conventional build i.e. foam/Obechi covered wings and a balsa fusalage. Plan sales are big business in the model aircraft world so maybe the makers of the full sized plane could move into this market. Afterall most of the design work is already on a PC. Any help is most greatly appreciated. Regards Clive Douglas