JakeC

I've been digging around and I have found a couple of references to the IO-360 being 270 dry and 327 with accessories. I assume that 327 are with oil as well but there was no reference to oil so it might not be. This is right in line with the all up weights I have seen for Continentals at about 55-65 lbs over the dry weight.

 

As for Props, I have no real idea. Tracy Crook (Real World Solutions) quotes around 60lbs for a CS prop and prop accessories. I imagine that is on the high side though.

 

This is something that interests me as well so I hope some others chime in.

 

Jake

not all that much more than the old school RX-7 engines at that RPM.

True, I think the number for the stock non-turbo 13b is around 150 hp at 6000 rpm. Not a huge jump by any means but not too shabby either. After mods the Atkins 13b conversion is putting out 160hp at that number. The exciting thing for me is that with a turbo, in my un-calibrated pea brain, the Renesis should be able to easily push 220-230 hp without coming close to over stressing the engine at that RPM. There is talk of Mazda coming out with a stock turbo version at 300HP in the near future so it would seem that the basic engine was most likely designed for some upward mobility in the HP department. It seems to me that once you strip the engine of the un-necessary add-ons and conservatively turbo it, the power would be quite acceptable. Then the real fun starts.....Cooling the sucker down .

 

Do you think the 6000 RPM limit should be the limit for max or continuous? I guess it would be Max considering Tracy’s redrive would put that at just under 2800 rpm at the prop. It's going to be interesting what people like Tracy and Atkins do with this new engine. I've got plenty of time to wait and see.

 

Jake

One thing is for sure, even though the Winkle appears to be simple with its few moving parts, it is actually a very complex machine. Complex in its design, not its operation. How it works is very easy to understand, but if you told someone to go out to the shop and design and built one, that would be a very hard thing to do indeed.

 

Mazda has stuck with the design and has kept developing the concept while most everyone else has given up. I believe that they are just now starting to reap the benefits of that move with the Renesis. It's far superior power to weight ratio and it's now comparable fuel burn is going to be a huge success IMHO. The trouble is, it took them a very long time and a lot of effort to get to this point.

 

I think Detroit has too much invested in the piston to ever change the course of engine development, even if a design proved to be a better. It's simply too risky. Especially with Fuel Cell technology right around the corner. The world is full of examples of superior technology falling to the way side in favor of inferior designs because of big company influence, or public misconception. It's just a fact of life that the best designs do not always make it to the top. I'm sure someone will disagree with me but look at Microsoft Windows, VHS vs. Beta, etc...

 

The question is, which design is best suited to aircraft use. Some say Piston, some say Rotary, some say they both can make a good aircraft engine. Personally I think the last answer is closer to the truth. Both have pros and both have cons. The Rotary is tougher and more robust but has to deal with cooling issues. The Lycs have more history behind them and are air-cooled (read simpler installation) but have more catastrophic failure modes and vibration.

 

An interesting thing happened to me about 2 hours ago. I was in a cub with my new instructor and it was my first attempt at a slow pass down the runway with a go around at the end. It was also my first official lesson since I was 15 years old. I was flying down the runway at about 10 feet practicing keeping it down the centerline. I was having a great time and I was going a great job I must say . About 3/4 of the way down the runway the instructor says: "ok, let’s go around". I advance the throttle and start a climb. At about 75 feet the engine quits. Instructor takes control, switches from the left the tank to the right tank, and the engine comes to life in about 2 seconds. We land using the remaining runway and all is well. It's probably the best thing that could have happened to me on my first lesson. From this point on I will always remember that it's not my aircraft that is most likely to kill me, it’s my own stupidity and complacency!

 

Jake

 

p.s. Please remember, these are the ramblings of a Neophyte and are just meant for entertainment and discussion purposes only!

Hey Chuck,

 

They say it won't smoke like the old ones......If it is as hot as they say....

Can we see some references? Got anything to back up your statements for some good conversation??

 

 

Mazda is going to try a new Wamkel

Is it your assertion that the 13b was not a successful engine program or it was somehow poorly designed? I'd like to hear what you have to say.

 

Jake

Mark: Yes, that was a big help. When the subject of the 540 came up it sort of got me thinking about the Mazda 20b which I believe is similar in weight. I believe with the numbers you mentioned the 20b could come close to pushing the VNE at altitude. The extra weight and bulk would be tough to deal with as well. And really with the new Mazda Renesis coming out there will be no need to look at the 20b for increased power. The Renesis is actually smaller and lighter than the 13b and develops 250hp in a stock normally aspirated configuration.

 

No4: Thanks for the detail. I appreciate it.

 

TESS111: I'll shut up and let you have your thread back. No more Mazda talk!!

 

Jake

Thanks for the info Mark. Cozyaircraft.com was the first place I looked for the VNE but they have left it off the spec sheet for some reason. Do you know of anyone that is modifying their cozy in order to raise the VNE? It seems that with some of the higher HP installations going on that it would be pretty easy to exceed that number with the Cozy. Is this even an issue at cruising altitudes? The way I understand it the higher you go the lower your indicated airspeed. You have to forgive my ignorance in this matter. I'm not yet a pilot and I may have a skewed view of what is possible with indicated vs. true airspeed at higher cruising altitude.

 

Jake

Can anyone tell me what the firewall forward weight of the 540 is? I wonder if these folks are doing any modifications to the airframe in order to handle the extra power. Speaking of that, what is the VNE for the Cozy? Thanks in advance.

 

Jake

Are you going to get some pictures?

 

Jake

Perhaps the Lamar design will be finished by the time you're ready.

By the time I'm ready the RX-12 will be coming out with a 400HP 15 lb engiine in it.

 

Jake

Besides being insanely expensive, has anyone heard anything about the PowerSport redrive? As I sit and day dream about my future engine installation I'm often seeing a constant speed prop. It's not enough that I plan on using an engine that is much smaller, and about 70 HP stronger than a Lycoming. I just won't feel right swinging a prop that is only at its best in one flight mode. But....when the checkbook comes out, I bet it will be for a fixed prop and one of terry's redrives. $6500 vs $2890. Maybe Terry will develop a version that can handle a constant speed prop.

 

Jake

Wayne,

 

The link to your page in your signature is not working for me. Is the link broken or is the site down?

 

Jake

If you come up with any good ideas let me know!! My site is costing me 200 a month and my wife is starting to bug me for things like food and mortgage money . You know, sometimes I wish she could just understand what is really important in life.

 

Jake

Aaron might be on to something for you MT. An experimental class gyro with a hefty pre-rotator for VTOL capability. Go with a 13B Turbo and start enjoying your commute for a change. Sort of a homegrown Carter Copter. Gyros have a long history so most of the groundwork has already been laid.

 

Jake

If I learned one thing from my time in the service it's that any problem no matter how complex can be solved with the correct amount and the correct application of high explosives.

 

MT - I say go for it. One way you could go is build a 1/4 scale model and see what you can make happen. It won't tell you if it would be possible at full size but it could give you some idea about the behavior of such a craft in hover and transition.

 

John - Just take the nozzles off and fill the empty rocket tubes full of match heads then put the nozzles back on. That should work. If it doesn't let me know.

 

Jake

unless you can get a good deal on a used Martin-Baker

Now those you can get surplus. I know because I saved one from being sold surplus. I found one out at the FT. Stewart surplus yard and brought it home to my unit to serve as a training aid. It sounded like a good idea but the most use it actually got was by me pretending to fly F-4's around the training room when nobody was around .

 

To me it sounds like you might be better off starting from scratch on a design MT. The reason I say that is because you would most likely spend more time trying to modify the cozy design than you would beginning from a clean slate. To take an aircraft that is very tightly designed to do one thing very well and make it do two things very well would be a monumental task.

 

Jake

Are all you number crunchers crazy or just plane stupid?

1. 280 HP turbo Mazda. Come on thats brake HP not constant

How are Lycoming Horsepower ratings measured? I'm asking because I've always assumed (possibly incorrectly) that most if not all engine manufactures listed their performance in Max HP not continuous. Is this not the case with Lycoming and Continental?

 

codensr,

 

If you find some good info on constant speed props from somewhere other than this thread could you let me know? I'd love to hear about it.

 

Jake

Chuck,

 

Are you saying that the O-320 has less moving parts than the Rotary?

 

Jake

Omar,

 

You don't happen to know what the performance figures turned out to be do you? I would love to see some info on that Mazda installation as well. Any info floating out there on the web?

 

Jake

Looks to me, from what I am hearing, that the homebuilt moving maps would be good if you are looking for a moving map system to use during VFR or as a backup during IFR. Does this about sum things up?

 

How about mounting an infrared camera in the nose of the Cozy and piping it directly into the display? Now that would be very cool .

 

Jake

Oh yeah, the screen is also a touch screen. Not much different than smashing buttons I guess.

 

And the other consideration is Windows. I can't IMAGINE the FAA ever certifying something based on Windows or a derivative, and I sure wouldn’t want to be in a cloud with Bill gates telling me there's a system failure...ok?

 

Yeah, I guess that is a consideration. I wonder if it would support other Operating Systems. XP isn't nearly as bad as 98 or ME that’s for sure, but it isn't perfect either. Doesn't matter much if you can't read the display I guess. Maybe a pull out shade or something .

 

Jake

It's both, and it's not simple. None of the newer, smaller vendors (Blue Mountain, PC Flight Systems, Dynon, etc.) have tried to get approval because it's expensive and lengthy. You don't have a chance on a homegrown system. Sorry......

Don't be sorry, just wondering.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Jake

John,

 

Here is one example of a Tablet PC that might make a good candidate. It's got a 10.4 inch screen and it would look quite nice sitting in my dream panel. There are a bunch brands and models out there and many more are coming to market soon. It's a relatively new market so the prices are still up there a bit. This particular one is 1600 bucks but I would expect the prices will be coming down before too long. I can afford to wait but I know you are looking for something now so it might be a bit steep. In my opinion we are going to see a lot of homebuilts with this type of display in the next few years.

 

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10340632&loc=1977

 

Does an instrument like this need to go through FAA cert before it can be used IFR or is it the Software, or both? Thanks.

 

Jake

I think the way to go is going to be the tablet pc. What I envision is being able to snap the PC in an out of the panel when not in use. The tablet PC's now can use Windows XP tablet edition and are just about as powerful as a notebook computer. The nice thing is that with a snap in and out installation I could use it for other purposes when I am not flying. The other nice thing is there is no need for a keyboard or mouse because interfacing can be done with a stylus pencil like the ones used in the smaller note pad computers. I could also install a 70 dollar DVD Drive in the panel and watch in-flight movies and play music .

 

Jake

 

Here is an expample of one of the smaller tablet PCs. The come bigger if you like.

Sounds like an excellent Idea. I will file that one away for future use. Thank.

 

Jake

--Today in the news--

 

Local motorists were stunned today at the bizarre line of fire leading from the local airport to the home of an eccentric local who neighbors say have been building a "backwards" airplane in his garage for the past several years. When asked about the strange phenomenon, the man simpy waved the smoking end of a fire exingusher at our channel 11 reporters then got in his car and raced twords the direction of the airport" Before he left he was heard mumbling "God I hope this doesn’t get back to them sarcastic **&^^%$# on the CC." - More at 11.

. But seriously, I think it sounds like a great idea. I'm hoping that by the time I ever get around to completing an aircraft, Auto gas will be on every airport. Actually by the time I get around to finishing an aircraft, you will probably be pulling up to the charging station instead of the fuel pump .

 

Jake

 

p.s. Will you be putting some kind of inline filter in the system or will you be tapping into the line after the cars fuel filter?