Bob Setzer

Nice. But I really worry about post-curing with balsa in there. 200 degrees Farenheit (110°C ?) is quite a lot. The Tg of MGS is somewhere up there, and you don't need to raise the post-curing themperature to or even above the glass transition temperature. Heating to 20°C (40F) below ultimate Tg for 5-8 hours or so is sufficient, there's no need to heat it up that much.

Are you going to try this out on one of the smaller molds first? I'd hate to see the bigger ones ruined since the balsa started to outgas or something.

Your right about the balsa being a possible problem. After talking With the Rep from the Mfg. of the tooling surface coat, he expressed the concern with bringing the tooling to a temp above the boiling point of water. Wood by nature has water content I’ll be honest did not thing of that.

With post curing the parts at !60-170 degrees (which will fall in the 40 degree range) it was recommended that I bring the tooling to a temp close to the tg of the resin one time.

I have taken the three smaller pieces of tooling to 200 degrees over a six hour period, just over 2 hours of that time was at 200. These pieces were built with the same lay-up schedule as the main tooling. All is well for how with these pieces.

Thanks for the input.

Bob Setzer

Bob,

 

Will you be taking orders to sell the completed parts?

Keith

Thanks For showing Interest.

For Now I’m trying to keep the thread educational, for what it’s worth.

With the Holidays out of the way we are going back at it. Here in Florida the weather has been a problem, high in the 40’s with a low of 27 tonight.

To bring you up to speeds on what is going on I am making a heat box to heat cure the tooling to the 200-degree range. I’m hoping to have a Fuselage by Sun-n-Fun. I have a hangar here at Lakeland.

I’ve been working with an engineering firm to see what it is going to take to make an autoclave to make the spar in. It might be over the top but I’d like to build it that way. We will see.

We have been working on the hot wire cnc files for the wing and canard, I’m getting ready to start on a canard. I’ve got the jig table ready to build a set of wings.

If I have said this before Floor space is becoming scariest.

For how this is not a full time project, and in these time you have to be careful for what you wish for.

All the best to all.

Bob Setzer

impressive numbers.....a huge work!

what kind of glass cloth did you use?

Airnico

The E-Glass fabric is a #7500, a 9.66 oz. per sq. yd., .014 thickness.It is a heavy weight boat or tooling cloth. Plain Weave. Thread Count 16 x 14. Breaking Strength 450 x 410 lb./in. Finished Weight 9.40 oz. per sq. yd.

How things going on your project.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Bob,

 

I did not realize the core is balsa, I thought it was made out of pvc bricks linked with a net.

sometimes ago I tried to build the cowling mould using pvc bricks, but it's not as easy as one could think.

when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface they separate creating a lot of empty spaces to fill with micro.

putting the micro in the voids is not that easy: if the micro is too thick it doesn't fill the voids completely because it's not able to go down where the voids are narrow, if it's too fluid it drips somewhere else and at the end the voids are never 100% full.

on the other hand the quantity of micro used is very very big.

again, when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface some voids are created under the bricks also, as the fuselage curvature is smooth and the curvature created by the bricks is not, so you have to put a bed of micro before to put the bricks.

again the quantity of micro is very big.

another problem: the bricks want to be curved in one direction only, now I see that you used small pieces of bricks-net instead of just a big one and put it diagonally, is it the secret to do a good job?.

do you have any idea about the quantity of micro used for the whole fuselage?

and how long did it take to do the job?I guess really a lot....

but it has turned out as a great job!!

Airnico

The balsa I used was a scrim and scored style cut I inch squares.

I cut the material in 4 by 10-inch pieces for the most part. To build the tooling I applied 6 layers of material with 4 additional layer to the flanges, that makes 10 layers on the flanges (this is the way all the tooling has been made). After a small break we installed the balsa by applying about 1/8 inch micro to the fiberglass and coating the back of the balsa to wet it out. Once each piece of balsa was installed it was never pull off for repositioning, so care was taken at this point, I would say care was taken through out the process). After the balsa was installed we started back at the beginning of the installed balsa and filled the larger gaps with micro (the balsa took around 2 ½ hours to in stall of the lower fuselage tooling. The whole process took 12 hours with 6 people.

The following day I took some 36-grid sandpaper and sanded off the hi spots, than applied a coat of micro slurry to the balsa surface. I used a mil-fiber mixture to fillet around the balsa edge, than 4 layers of material with additional 6 layers on the flanges. That makes a total of 20 layers of material on the flanges, around .26 inches of thickness. This process took 8 additional hours with 5 people.

So it took 20 hours to build the lower fuselage tooling (just over 100 man hours).

11.5 gallons of MGS resin and hardener.

Just the fuselage tooling alone there is around 30 gallons of resin and harder, 300 square yards of fiberglass cloth and 5-6 pounds of micro. Also 2.5 gallons of tooling surface coat.

To this point I have built the Canopy Frame Tooling, Spar Tooling, Speed Brake Tooling, Front Hatch Tooling, Canard Cover Tooling and Fuselage Tooling. Also I have built a really neat 4 axes CNC hot-wire

Cutting machine to cut my Canard and wing cores. I’ve got the canard and elevator down, but have not had time for the wings. I guess that I have to many things going on, what can I say.

The secret to laying the balsa in my case is to cut the balsa to a size that can be applied without trapping air, also I played with the mirco mixture before I got everyone together so as to have everyone mix micro at the same ratio. It worked out really well.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Thanks Drew, You have a great web site with interesting info.

All of the tooling has been built with the use of 7500 series tooling cloth and MGS resin sandwiching a balsa core. The tooling surface coat is made by PTM-W and is an epoxy tooling gel surfacing produce that is made to be use at higher temps than the tooling will run at. I’m going to heat cure the tooling to 200 degrees. I’m looking at curing the parts at 170. The tooling should hold together for awhile at that temperature.

I did find out something the other day about the use of balsa as a core for the tooling, balsa has some moisture in it that on using it at a temperature that exceeds boiling point it could damage the tooling. Only taking the tooling to 200 only one time I hope the tooling will last for awhile.

As far as making a fuselage I’m using MGS resin, E- Glass with a Divinycell core.

Bob Setzer

A-solution

Norm

#1- Did you get a set of aircraft build plans and engine install plans with the airplane.

Its sounds like you have bought an airplane with a preexisting problem.

With that being said you have to start at the beginning.

#2- Did the builder deviate from the plans in the fuel delivery layout (vent lines, fuel valve and gasculator install). When was the last time the fuel lines were replaced (and for that mater the vent lines, you need to check for obstructions in these lines, don’t just look at the lines remove and check them for obstructions). What material are the fuel lines made of (not part of your problem but need to be replace if they are the vinyl style from the tanks to gascalator).

#3- Do a fuel flow check as pur the engine install manual.

After this you can move on to an engine-related problem (which would include how the engine control cables were installed to the “carby”, check the plans).

Bob Setzer

Well another piece of the puzzle gets accomplished.

The lower tooling was removed from the plug today.

It’s always a process to get to this point, such as making supports and a stand to put the molds into. All part of the build process. It’s hard to imagine the area that the tooling is starting to take up.

Still a lot to do.

Progress moves on.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Those molds look nice. Keep up the great work Bob.

Wayne

Thanks, I will be lucky if I can accomplish with molds what you were able to do without them.

Bob Setzer

I was sorting through the photo's I've taken of the project, came across the tooling for the spar. These photo's are of the spar plug, I will post the mold for the spar later.

I've been building the supports for the lower Fuselage tooling so as to get ready for its removal from the plug.

Progress moves on.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

After 6.5 hours of lay-up on to lower fuselage tooling today the major part of the tooling is done, I’ll be cleaning the tooling up in the next week so as to get ready to heat cure the tooling. I’ll be building a hot box to do the curing of the tooling. and parts in the future. Still a lot to do, progress moves on.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Well

Being a person of few words here we go. We started this mourning at 9 and after 13.5 hours we are ready for tomorrows finishing lay-ups. I had five of my friends come out to the hangar to share the fun (wore them out). Most will be back in the A.M. to finish up. I figure about another 7 hours to finish, I could never have done this with out there help. Know longer a one man job to move the tooling any more. Just to big.

Progress move on.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Monday we installed the upper tooling back on the plug to get ready to build the lower tooling. I’m putting the needed supplies together to get ready for an early November build. A little wax on wax off and the plug will be ready. Weather is starting to cool here in Florida, 51 degrees early today.

It takes about two weeks to put five friends together to help out. So the swing in Florida temperature comes into play.

Bob Setzer

A-solution

Gotta love that fiberglass!

TMann

Can't fraise it any better, I do like to work with it.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

After finishing the speed brake recess, I got to looking at the hinge mounting area. It did not measure out, It didn’t have enough of an angle in it. Out comes the router again. I used a piece of aluminum to set the angle to 45 degrees, something I should have paid more attention to. When building a plug if you have any doubt fix it.

A job done right is a job done twice.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

I’ve finished the speed brake recess and finished buffing the lower fuselage plug.

The next step will be to reinstall the upper fuselage tooling to the plug to use the tooled flanges made on that tooling to match the upper tooling lay-up with.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Hi guys

I don’t know what happened with this thread, I couldn’t find it any more so I came to a different area “General construction”

I hope the ones that were advising me about what to do with this Varieze 0-200 mount with a bent tube can see this post.

The mount was mounted so I don’t think any other tube was affected; I took it off to take better pics and have it ready for the repair.

Another question is: Is this material so fragile that can not be bent back to the right position? It looks very flexible.

I was thinking after bending it back; have it inspected with Magnaflux if it’s not more expensive than changing the tube.

Here are the pictures

 

Forward view – Upper right bent tube – Upper left good tube

[ATTACH]2965[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2966[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2967[/ATTACH]

If that crease is there you should replace the tube. I think the hardest thing is going to reposition the original drilled mounting holes.

Someone else may have a idea on a drill jig fixture for that operation.

Again I may be wrong at what I see in that picture (I hope I am).

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Congrats Jerry

Looks like your taking a path of good judgment.

A lot of great days ahead.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Last week Paul Lampasso came over to the hangar to work on his degree. He wet sanded the upper tooling to clean it up, did a great job. I followed up with a buffer to finish it up.

Moving on I’ve started on putting the recesses in the lower fuselage tooling, the photo’s show the start of the speed brake recess.

Progress moves on.

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

In other words, you were one of the lucky ones.

 

Other people have had miserable results with the UV SmoothPrime, and I can give you a list of names if you'd like, on COZY MKIV's alone.

 

In other words, you are one of the lucky ones, as Mike Melvill has been. Please do NOT use your luck as an indication that it is reasonable for ANYONE to assume that they will be as lucky as you if they are as reckless, which is exactly what you have been.

 

Barrier cream is useless. Good gloves are the only localized protection, and good organic vapor masks or air flow hoods are the only systemic protection for long term exposure. There was a very good discussion on the canard-aviators mailing list on this exact subject recently.

 

It amazes me, with what medical science knows about allergic reactions, their severity and the causes, that anyone is willing to take the chance of getting epoxy on their bare skin on a regular basis.

Marc

You hit this right on the head about epoxy usage.

Wayne, your are a great builder but Marc is so very right about proper epoxy handling. Start wearing a good pair of gloves, this goes for every one else using the same practices. This stuff does not tell you that you should start using better judgment when using it. It’s a time bomb that goes off in seconds and if you are lucky enough to be able to continue working with epoxy you will be one of the lucky ones. Like any product you have to respect it .

My .02

Bob Setzer

Thanks Guys- I'll past on the recognition to the help

As I had gotten into there were smaller pieces of tooling that were pulled from the fuselage plug before the main tooling was started on. Those pieces included the canard cover, front hatch cover, and lower speed brake. Those molds were heat cured to 200 degrees.

I did an vacuum bag engineering lay-up on the front hatch cover, heat cured to 170 degrees.

Here are a couple of photo"s of that part.

Thanks again

Bob Setzer

Wow, that picture was such a big hit, I thought I would post another from the same flight. It really is a beautiful airplane.

I have to say its a BIG inspiration to see a great looking RG Eze do what it does best.

All the best

Bob Setzer

A-Solution

Weather has been great here in Lakeland, Florida. We are still in the 90’s during the day.

Its been 3 days from the last laid up on the left side tooling, a long four weeks from the time the right side was laid up.

I had my good friend Paul Lampasso come out to the hangar today to help remove the molds.

At this time I have to give Paul a big That A Boy, he’s been a great help, when that second sets of hands were needed he was there.

One of the best degrees that an individual had earned was a Ph.D. in Sandology

And if that person views this post I have to tell her I thought that was a great line (call me shallow put it took me a couple days to get what that degree meant). With a little added humor, Paul will get a degree in Sandology if he stays at it.

There a lot of work left in this project. I’ve told my friends that “if it were easy every one would do it”, you have to get satisfaction from it.

Back to today, here are a couple photo’s of molds pulled from the plug. Paul is standing by the two halves.

You have to always thank those who help, and for the friends that have helped when I needed it THANKS.

One other note, the fuselage is 154 inches long from the back edge of the cowling lip to the nose, 28.75 inches at it widest, about 27.75 inside once to fab work is done.

Bob Setzer

guauuuuuuuuu,i´m impressed:)

Thanks you so much, we will stay at it.

Bob Setzer

A good question was asked today after looking at the molds sitting atop the Fuselage plug.

The question asked was how do the two halves stay lined up being that I’m going to use them to make one part from two halves. There are a lot of ways to do it, I chose to use steel markers that were built into the tooling. The steel markers will last far longer than the fiberglass tool.

Hers a couple photo’s of the canopy frame tooling and how the markers look installed.

Bob Setzer

AIRNICO-another question:

why did you build a downward(and forward)inclined surface where the canard is supposed to be attached?

Reply With Quote

After the main part of the fuselage plug was built the canard point of attachment was calculated the front point of the downward incline is about the W.L. were the canard will set, that point is forward of the leading edge of the canard.

The tooling for that cut out (so that cover for the canard cover could be made) of that area was taken from the plug, than that area was removed for for the finial shape of the tool.

The first part of the downward incline coming off W.L. 23 will be left after the cut is made to allow the canard to sit in place. This allows this front part of the incline to become part of the longeron just behind the rear of the canard.

If you look closely at the photo's you will see that the turtle deck additions were made from the canopy tooling and than transferred to the main plug to finish that area.