Eccentric

The other issue, the canard profile is off by quite a lot as you can see in the attached picture. Bottom profile, is from the OpenEZ plans.

In the picture, the top profile is the Roncz canard. The lower profile looks like the original Long-EZ canard.

Perry ..... what prop are you turning now.

In looking on your site it appears you have gone to an adjustable pitch.

I'm still using the fixed pitch. The Vari-Prop is a true variable pitch prop with it's own hydraulic control system independent of the engine. That makes it good for use with the rotary engine. I did a couple test flights over a year ago. It weighs over 50 lbs. so I'm currently waiting for a lighter hub they are building for me.

The aluminum block, Buick V-8 was the powerplant that the original eRacer was designed around.

I think Spencer's is based on a Ford engine. Direct drive. Don't remember the details on the Buick eRacer except he had a lot of issues.

7-22-2009

 

My rotary Long-EZ has been flying for 10 years.

 

720 hours TT

 

Zero glider time

 

http://www.mickaircraft.com/duckt.htm

It's great to see the Experimental category being explored so well. Perry is one of those guys that walks the walk.

 

I watched Perry fly his ducted fan version when I lived in Seattle during a small canard group fly-in in 2002. That set-up was certainly not successful - EXTREMELY loud and reasonably slow for the fuel burn. I work with Ron Ligeti (anyone recall his father Charles' Ligeti Stratos) - it used a reasonably successful ducted fan on the first prototype.

 

With the duct gone, early performance was 172 mph TAS at 8.8gph which seems inefficient for an equivalent power Long EZ? Then the addition of some better wheelpants. What performance is he getting now?

Hi Wayne, good to hear from you. Hope your bird is doing well.

 

The ducted fan was loud because of the fan tip speed. It's the same engine installation now but it's much quieter. People say it sounds about like any other airplane. I don't have a muffler installed.

 

My engine is running rich best power all the time. Probably 12.5:1 air-fuel. Throttle control only, no lean control. The ECU has an atmospheric pressure sensor and automatically compensates for altitude. No issues up to 14,000 feet - haven't been higher yet. The ECU still thinks it's in a car. Others have had great success leaning the rotary. I built an electronic circuit to manipulate the signal from the airflow sensor before presenting it to the ECU for lean control. It did work but I removed it to increase the control range and haven't re-installed it yet. That's the status as of now. I'm just flying these days and not modifying. The fuel burn doesn't bother me since I burn mogas and the price came back down since last summer's peak. The advantage of having the lean control would be to extend the range, that is already considerable.

 

720 hours TT. July 19 will be the 10th anniversary of first flight.

I wasn't aware of all the great builders in the Area. Bruce, I would love to help out. a Long-EZ is the only Canard I have seen up close. There is a gentleman in McMinnville who has one that I drool on, on occasion. Sunday's I work at the FBO in McMinnville fueling airplanes.

That must be me, as far as I know my Long-EZ is the only one based at MMV. Have we met?

 

There are a couple VEZs and a Cozy flying out of UAO, and a Long-EZ now based at 7S5 - a transplant from Idaho.

 

Eccentric - 13 year build, 10th year flying.

Further looking, there is a photo with canard installed.

I would say it needs a canard but I don't see where that has been provisioned for in the pictures? The nose is very short. Perhaps the intention was flying wing.

Attached is a simple diagram of the airport incident that I put together. It's helpful to have a bit more of a visual of what occurred so that we can learn from it.

Thanks for that picture. I don't understand why the collision took place so far down the runway and on a taxiway off to the side of the runway? I admit I haven't kept up with the latest info on this accident that may have come out the last couple days.

A friend just told me my plane is visible in google maps at coords 45.1981,-123.1414

 

I posted a screenshot at http://www.bridgingworlds.com/googlemap20080222.jpg

Well I would say that the obvious problem is that the Rotary just does not work if it's facing the wrong way. I mean, you have all those guys flying the RVs with a r0tary and they don't have problems.

 

I wouldn't say they haven't had any problems. Some are accumulating significant hours now.

 

Actually in a pusher the engine is oriented in the correct direction - same as in the car. It's those tractor guys that have it backwards.

I don't have any fundamental disagreements with your analysis Mr. Zeitlin. It's always good to have some data to analyze.

 

A few comments:

 

Richter had a turbo 13B, not a 20B. I've seen this engine in a hangar in Everett Washington, now being installed on a Long-EZ.

 

Al Gietzen is flying his 20B Velocity out of the San Diego area I think, not sure which field.

 

Sorry, I forgot about Steve Brooks. Knew I was probably forgetting somebody!

 

If I were flying around with a Lycoming, I would be worried about the piston blowing out of the cylinder, as Dick Rutan experienced recently.

 

With my rotary, I don't worry about a failure of the engine itself. If I ever experience an engine stoppage it will not likely be due to the engine itself, it will probably be something else related to EFI, electronic ignition, overall electrical failure, coolant leak, or PSRU related. Regardless of installed engine, it's not wise to take too many risks flying your canard at low altitude over hostile terrain.

 

I considered but discarded the turbo option, IMO just not enough room and too much engine compartment heat for a Long-EZ. A turbo increases the chance of detonation which can and does fracture apex seals.

 

I was flying about 100 hours a year but that's tapered off a bit lately. My running average now over the last 8.5 years is 80 hours/year. If I don't fly at least once a week I get withdrawal symptoms.

I haven't done any MagnumPI work on the Rotary-pusher install users since my reading of Slades and Bulys work. So since this pusher-flyer was kind enough to post his positive install [and he is the only one- to post suchly] I was just asking for more info and any other pusher-rotaryfliers he might know of. I am just trying to help people get some info. One guy is good, but more pusher-install experiences would be better.

Ron Gowan (Texas) put a couple hundred hours on a rotary Long-EZ in the early 90s.

 

Greg Richter had a turbo rotary in a Cozy for awhile, he replaced it with a jet engine. That rotary engine with turbo is now being installed in a Long-EZ in the Seattle area.

 

George Graham (Florida) flew a rotary Eracer for several years, he accumulated several hundred hours. His first flight was about the same time as mine, circa 1999.

 

John Slade turbo Cozy you know about.

 

Al Giezen is currently flying a rotary Velocity in Southern California, still in test period I think.

 

Mike Perry (Florida?) has been flying a rotary Long-EZ, haven't heard much from him lately. Despite the similarity of the name, he is not me.

 

Paul Conner flew a rotary SQ2000 but unfortunately had a fatal accident while still in test period. Fuel supply to engine or injector-related problem.

 

Joe Hull (Seattle) flew a rotary Cozy for awhile but is now installing a Lyco. He had some adventures with his homebuilt exhaust system and broken spark ingestion (incorrect spark plugs IMHO).

 

That's all that comes to mind right now for flying rotary canards. Apologies if I missed anyone. With about 675 hours now I think I have the highest time in a rotary canard. There are other aircraft types flying with more rotary hours, RVs and gyrocopters.

Well howdy eccentric! Like the 1st Austin Power movie.."there you are..."!! You have to be the moment of inspiration here- since you have a pusher install. Do you have any similar powered buddies out there in canards? Are you turboed or not? Pictures pictures pictures please. Theres a lot of interest from several here. Too much to bait them with 3 short sentences and tip your hat!!

There is more info at the website link I provided. You have to click some of the links on the page to get more pictures. Of most interest to builders would be the link "how to install a rotary in your long-ez".

Approaching 9 years and 700 hours on my rotary. Kein Probleme. Wouldn't fly anything else.

http://www.ductedfan.com

Well, dynamic pressure is equal to 1/2 * the density of the fluid * the velocity squared.

Lets say 150 mph(thats indicated) 150*5280/3600= 220fps

Density of air = 0.002377 lbs/cuft (approx. )

so (0.002337)(220)(220)= 113lbs/sqft of pressure

divide by 144 for sqin =0.786 lbs/sqin

atmospheric pressure = 29.92 in mercury or 14.7lbs/sqin

2.03 in mercury/1psi

0.786*2.03= 1.6" max theoretical pressure gain

 

I think the 0.002337 is density in slugs/cuft.

Didn't you forget the 1/2 factor?

0.5 * 0.002337 * 220^2 = 56.6 lbs / sq ft

At 10,000 feet (where we travel) the density drops to 0.001756 slugs/ft^3

0.5 * 0.001756 * 220^2 = 42.5 lbs / sq. ft.

or 0.295 lbs / sq. in.

or 0.6 inches of mercury.

 

Using 160 knots that I travel at and 10,000 feet you get

64 lbs / sq. ft = 0.9 in. mercury, about what I see on my manifold pressure gauge.

__________________

 

 

Not a guess, but an actual number. 160kts represents an air pressure of just a little over 1 inch of mercury.

 

Waiter

I was too lazy to do the calculation, but that is about what I see on my manifold pressure gauge.

I have a ram air inlet on my rotary install. I notice a slight effect at cruise speed, 160 knots. You don't get a lot of pressure boost from ram air at these speeds.

Aren't you relying on the pan bolts to hold the engine to the plate?

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

If you are referring to my design, the oil pan is an integral part of the plate. The plate, otherwise known as a Schertz Beam, is 1/2" thick, not because it needs to be that thick, but because the rubber bushings are designed for 1/2" thick material. As shown in the previous GIF the rearmost eight pan bolts are longer and bolt into the iron rear housing.

you have a really incredible plane.

Regards, Chrissi

Thanks Chrissi! I really enjoy it, an incredible design thanks to Mr Rutan.

I think welding the oil pan as an integral part of the beam would eliminate any concerns.

I initially replied to this thread after Joe asked about oil leaks around the pan, which I do experience. You could eliminate 1/2 the leakage problem by integrating your oil pan with your mount plate as well.

I show eight 6-mm screws in a C pattern, that bolt into the rear iron on the engine. Considering your canard is held on with only two 1/4" bolts, this would seem sufficient, but if you can prove otherwise by analysis I'll listen.

I have found some heatsink extrusion that has fins on both sides so I thought since the cooling air goes by there it may be worth some free cooling.

Regards, Chrissi

I've been flying for several years now with an aluminum oil pan welded up by a friend who does welding for a living. It has fins both inside and outside on the bottom surface. I was hopeful this would help with oil temperature but it made no noticable difference. Can't hurt and looks cool though.

How well does the plate and oil pan seal? I do not know how many of these sandwich plate designs are in operation but i was wondering if they are prone to leaking. From my old drag racing days any time a small block Chevy was opened up it was a challenge to get the pan to seal on the first try. Thanks

 

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

My Long-EZ has a small oil seepage leak (from being parked nose down) that started about about a year after the 2001 re-installation. My existing mount has a 1/4" aluminum plate between engine and oil pan. I just live with the leak because I don't want to remove the engine and reseal.

 

The next time I have to remove the engine for whatever reason, I plan to build a new engine mount. The new engine mount design does away with the plate - it combines the Schertz beam with the oil pan so there is one less seam to leak. There is a guy in Seattle currently installing Greg Richter's turbo engine in a Long-EZ with this engine mount design:

 

http://www.bridgingworlds.com/LEZ13B/LEZ13B.htm

 

If you want a pre-fab mount you'll have to buy Chrissi's because I'm not producing this mount design, just providing the info for do-it-yourselfers.

I never knew this is the Long-EZ system

What I meant was "stock LEZ fuel system" up to the EFI dual-pump sump, which is not part of the stock system. I already had my plane built per plans when I decided to go rotary EFI-EI. So I put the small EFI dual-pump sump where the gascolator is shown in the plans, with EFI fuel return to the sump rather than any fancy valving stuff trying to get fuel back to a main tank. Later I moved the sump to the cold side of the firewall.

 

I don't really like calling it a "sump" because it sometimes creates confusion.

I'm not familiar with the Berkut sump, but that sounds like the system I have. Stock Long-EZ fuel system, the selected main drains by gravity to a sump tank that is bolted to the cold side of the firewall, very low! My tank is made from steel and has two high pressure EFI pumps inside. The fuel return from the engine goes back to this sump tank. The sump tank must be vented, but you don't want it pressurized higher than the mains from forward facing vents. My sump vent is lower (above and behind the passenger's head) and has a very smaller inlet compared to the main tank vents. Sump only holds about a gallon, there is no "fuel heating" as some have theorized. No issues in almost 700 hours of flying.