Bruce

I just talked to Todd and he says he can make it 4" wider no problem. 4" longer is another story. He claims it ended up costing him 3 grand to make the limo canopy so he could sell it for $500...and he doesn't like to lose money, so max canopy stretch is about 2". I'm sending him a pic of my firewall template so he can give me some firm details and pricing info.

 

I'll end up making the firewall and canopy frame fit the canopy. No big deal.

Another possibility is the Berkut style of canopy(2 pieces), unless you're really married to the one piece. It'll give you a lot more flexibility in making parts larger.

I can see where it adds some cool factor to the look. But, will it be just as effective as the regular rudder or will you loose some?

Great...you have a phone number? All I can ever find are email addresses.

 

Mike

707-462-2939

 

Feather Lite Inc.

1327 S State St, Ukiah, CA

Hey Kent,

 

I found what you were looking for (somewhat). Hopefully the WMV will play OK. As you'll see, my camera work wasn't working at the time.

LongEZV8.wmv

I've seen pictures of this plane in CSA. Didn't realize how much performance he was getting out of it. Did you make the video Bruce? Wish you had asked him about his direct drive setup. Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

Yes, I was going through some of my tapes and ran across our chat, just edited it last night. Some other guys were asking him some questions about that while I was shooting, I'll go back and see if he goes into any detail on that particular part for you. Seems like he only mentioned he had a prop extension and no PSRU was all, I'll check.

Here's a link to a short video of Gary Spencer's LongEZ with a Ford V8 installed. He was at the Arlington Fly–In a couple of years ago and we took a few minutes to chat about his installation. I forgot that I had this and thought some folks might enjoy hearing about his V8 installation. It's a little less than 7-1/2 minutes long.

 

http://pursuitofflight.com/longezv8.html

Boy, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the world this morning.

 

Now I don't mean to be rude... .

Yes, Adrian, that's exactly what you mean here, you chose to type the words. Was someone twisting your arm? It's the sarcastic and condescending attitudes like yours that keep a lot of really knowledgeable people from wanting to participate in forums just like this. If you can't see where you're being condescending and sarcastic in your post, let me know and I'll be happy to point it out.

 

 

...Some may think this is bit rough, but that is my opinion...

It's not rough, just immature and sophomoric, personal attacks are boring and really get tiresome. Notice how the posters responses above you were simple and to the point, nothing personal said, just the facts. We all appreciate that type of etiquette, thanks guys. If more people were like them we'd have many more contributors.

 

 

Well, I can honestly say that over the years of building, I've had my share of "duh! what was I thinking" moments, well, evidently I wasn't in this case. So I was a little myopic while checking the plans so closely, for that, you summarily want to dismiss someone for not seeing the trees for the forest. And, from this you jump to the conclusion that I have no value to the project. I'm guessing from your grading system here, you grade yourself on a curve?

 

 

I apologise if I have offended.

You don't know me well enough for you to offend me. You did push my sarcastic/condescending nerve though and I felt a response was called for.

 

 

Bruce, they should be off by quite a bit. You are comparing the GU canard from the original EZ to the Roncz (as stated by others, but I thought I'd confirm given I drew the templates).

(Warning! Sarcastic/Condescending comment following) So, using your grading system for value, the only real value that I see in your post, was the first sentence (quoted above), the rest, was just internet dribble and did absolutely nothing to move this project ahead. (done)

 

Let's leave the sarcastic/condescending comments outside and try to raise the bar a little higher here.

 

 

 

Bruce

In the picture, the top profile is the Roncz canard. The lower profile looks like the original Long-EZ canard.

You're absolutely correct. So I guess the question is, do we leave out the original (GU?) from the new plans?

I took the PDF files to 3 different printers, Kinko's and two companies that print blueprints and got three different sizes. Kinko's - was off from 1/32" to 1/8", one other company(A) was off by 1/4"(both off length wise). The last one(B) suggested not using a laser printer but an ink jet, it was almost perfect using the tic marks Adrian provided. Company (B) also mentioned that they can adjust the PDF file so that the tic marks will align perfectly at the time of printing, they do that a lot. They mentioned that several variables come into play each time you print large format like this, type of paper, moisture, etc. Both (A) and (B) said having a .dwg file would make no difference in the end result when printing. PDF is less expensive.

 

When comparing the actual templates with the OpenEZ's, Kinko's and company (A) was off in the shear web from 1/16" to 1/8" in the width, depth was fine. Company (B) was a perfect match.

 

The other issue, the canard profile is off by quite a lot as you can see in the attached picture. Bottom profile, is from the OpenEZ plans.

I have no problem taking ownership of Chap. 14. I will create the drawings in both AutoCAD 2002 and PDF, at least for the smaller ones. My fervent hope is that we also get drawings for the high-performance rudders and the updated speed brake plans. I have also seen reference to landing light plans - I'd like to see them, too.

I'll be glad to compare them for you as soon as you're done, thanks Sam.

 

you are welcome to my chapter 14 drawing just remember to remove 3 inches from the inside dimension. My spar was extended by 3 inches on each side to accomodate the curved sides.

 

I formatted them such that I could print them full scale (1:1) on my plotter

Thanks, TMann!

 

Anyone able to cut off the 3 inches in CAD for us?

The goal of the project frmo the beginning was to create a LongEZ clone with the "latest approved and tested modifications". This includes the HP rudders, SP canard (Roncz), landing brake etc.

...If we revert to the original goal and stick to it, I am in and I would be happy to take ownership of chapter 4s drawings...

We do not differ at all on this thought, we actually agree on this. We just have a different approach as to how to accomplish the same end result. I want to just add them to the plans and you want to re-write the plans with this information included.

 

If we are going to go around in circles all over again I am out. Don't take this a threat, as I am sure you can do this without me, it's just it causes me to lose interest.

Re-writing the plans to include all the updated improvements (which really needs to be done) is an enormous amount of work. That's a project that I would not be interested in doing. Having said that, I'm still willing to assist the project any way I can, it's a big elephant. A lot of us will come and go as this goes along, hopefully our contributions will be appreciated by future builders, so, I'll do what I can until I don't like elephant any more.

 

The templates will be printed tomorrow and I'll compare all three and report back in a day or so. Adrian or any of our CAD experts, if the drawings don't match for some reason, would you like for me to take pictures and post them so you can see the differences, or how would you want that information?

 

Here is the part of the WIKI I don't like.

 

"Please note that all contributions to Open Canard Project may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here."

At Pro Composites, they use "Google Docs" for the Personal Cruiser Plans. Being a Beta builder, some of us have editing permissions while others do not. This could be an option for the project to reside until it's ready for the public to download. My knowledge is limited about it's workings, but, I'll check into it.

Bruce, I think you and I and I are on different wavelengths and it is causing some confusion on both our parts.

 

When I referenced duplication of work recently I wasn't talking about the full size templates. What I am talking about is your intention to redo chapter 4. Now if you want to do it then go ahead, no one can stop you but my point is I have already done chapter 4 and the construction method is identical to the LongEZ. I have added some text to clear up some points, added the wires in the screw heads at the firewall (as done by many people) and cleaned up the format.

 

My point is what you are striving for, in this particular chapter, is already done.

I'll be glad to help. Just as a recommendation, here's a couple of questions that I think should be answered first, help make the goal clear.

 

1) Do we keep it completely original at first with no changes? My vote would be yes. It's a proven design and the majority of the work is already done. If we re-write the plans, I think it becomes a set of plans for a plane that hasn't been built. I haven't checked lately on CH4, but when the CP's/CSA newsletters/forums make a reference to the plans, they're (some)very specific about where the changes are in the plans. If we re-write the plans, a lot of confusion will take place. We can add the upgrades and changes as addendum's, like your Ch4 Adrian.

 

2) Where do we start? I would recommend the templates, an easy and quick (easy for me to say) goal that will benefit all(see my earlier post). This could also be a two pronged attack, one on Ch???, the other on the templates.

 

3) I would include all the same drawings that are in the plans, plus add the 3D views to assist in the builders understanding.

 

In chatting with the printers, they mentioned that most prefer PDF files to print from. The cost per sq/ft went up to .90 instead of .25 if I sent the .dwg files. I didn't think to ask, would that be because the different files would be printed on different printers of different quality? My knowledge of CAD is starting to show.

That's effectively what the OpenEZ plans are, the LongEZ plans with better drawings, readable text, all the CP additions and proven mods. Seems pointless doing this all over again.

I thought the first goal and reason for the CAD drawings were to allow the next generation of builders to be able to print full size templates (like you can get for the Cozy) and not have to piece them together. Be able to take them to someone with a plotter and get more accuracy in the printing of the templates. The OpenEZ plans are templates only, not plans, they have to come from TerfCD. I thought this was the first goal in this long (pardon the pun) process. This would be a good improvement, not a duplication of what's already done.

 

The PDF files of your drawings will be ready for me to pickup Monday from a company that prints blueprints. I was going to compare all three for accuracy early next week and give a report back to the group and I think we all know how that will turn out. This company prints cheaper (.25 vs .75 sq ft) than Kinko's, will store the files there and anyone can order a set and they'll ship them to you. We can include their contact info with the templates, or they can use someone local, or use Steve to cut them out.

 

The second goal was to have the original LongEZ plans added to the mix, somehow I don't think Matt from TerfCD will let us use his CD's for the plans. Thus the reason for me to start with chapter 4. After the original LongEZ is complete (including CP's) and can be downloaded in one spot, then start adding the changes and mods as addendum's, so the plane will still be original.

 

A lot of you guys are good at CAD and bring that to the table. I can bring the transcribed plans less the drawings to the table and a willingness to help move this forward. If the above is not where we're headed, I guess I have the intent of this thread wrong. This is a huge project to say the least and will take quite awhile to complete (we all have regular jobs) but, it can be done a little at a time.

I read that link to the "unfavorable Eracer plans consideration". ... they are like water in a desert, sparse. There's so much reading in between the lines, Jack needed a proverbial red-phone-direct-link to Shirl. And Jack's a pretty darn bright guy!!

Have fun.

I would say that pretty well sums it up. You really need to have some working knowledge of these planes or have friends that have built an ERacer if this would be your first plane. After many attempts to email/call Shirl with questions and no responses, it became apparent that he was not going to give the same support that Nat gave for the Cozy, or even close. Being a first time builder, I thought the smart thing for me, was to not build the ERacer. I'm currently working on a LongEZ.

Do you mean each of the little drawings used in my CH4 PDF?

Yes, that's correct. I believe I can take them from that PDF individually.

I am not entirely sure what you mean here, they are already in the plans?

Yes, you're correct, however, I have no pictures in my transcribed plans, I'd like to insert your drawings and add the changes from the CP's as well. I know I could just scan in the pictures from the LongEZ plans.

 

Chapter 4 would be an interesting test, similar to what you did with the OpenEZ Plans PDF, but, use all original LongEZ plans with today's CAD drawings.

Hi everyone

 

I was trying to find some informations about price for E-racer plans. I didn't find anything. I was on www.eracer.org but as I think page is expired. I found some Word document on: forum.canardaviation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2379&d=1149122158 . I'm not sure is the contact data are wright. All of this stuff looks for me very strange.

Does anyone knows whats going on with this firm? Where I can check prices and get some informations about this plane?

Shirl Dickey was/is the designer behind the ERacer. He quit selling plans several years ago. He comments sometimes on the Canard Aviators list, found here. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/canard-aviators/

 

I purchased a set of plans from him around 5 years ago for about $350 (if I remember correctly )

 

I would consider Jack Morrison our resident professional on the ERacer (among other things) here on the Canard Zone.

Yup. http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1704&d=1211287960

 

This was a draft I did up ages ago to test the concept. Came out pretty good, but not really verified and some mods required (particulary the part about the landing brake).

Adrian,

 

Would you mind giving me just the drawings? I'd like to place them in the plans to see how they look.

Elsewhere on the forum are the wing templates I created that are all one piece. Try this (only right wing and aileron templates not done: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2093&d=1223534774

 

And here's the canard templates: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1706&d=1211433000

Adrian, I took these files to Kinko's tonight, had them printed and they look great. The 1" marks really helped in checking for accuracy. Measuring from one side to the other, the 1" marks went from right on, slowly progressing to being off by 1/32. The other one was off by 3/32. I had 18 square feet printed for a total of $13.50.

 

I'll check them against my printed templates from the OpenEZ files tomorrow. I'll find someone with a plotter and have them printed and compare all three(I would expect more accuracy from the plotter). Having the wing templates as a single piece and full size is great, nice work.

To help this along, I have the LongEZ plans transcribed in a Word DOC that I'd be willing to add to the pile. Not that they are needed at the moment, just so we know that part is done.

 

Is the thought here for a new builder to use the new CAD drawings to print off his full scale templates from, instead of using the ones that Jon has available here for the OpenEZ? Adding a scale to the CAD drawings to check for the correct enlargement size like Jon has would be very helpful for accuracy's sake.

 

Which file format would be the best choice for the average guy to take down to Kinko's and have the full size templates printed from? He'll also want to open them and view them on his computer as well. PDF?

Wow, a real thin crowd this year. Did everybody get a door prize?

One lucky person got a Canard Coffee Table Book.

I bought some EZ-Poxy (87) for building fuel related layups.

I used this for the front face of the CS Spar and will be building my rear seat thigh support/sump in the next week or so...

 

...I want to use vinylester for the final internal coat in the tanks but that has an even shorter lifespan when compared to the epoxy.

I didn't think that vinyester resin and epoxy would play well together. Won't that create a bonding issue? I'd think that would leave a rather big mess after some time.

Thanks guys, very helpful information.

Not sure if it was Wayne who did this, but, someone used a two step cutting process for cutting the openings. Cut the top layer of glass, remove the foam, vacuum, then cut the bottom layer of glass. This would certainly help cut down on the amount of debris going inside the tank.

Bruce

The canard move was taken from the front face of the firewall. it will set a F.S. 10. This move seems to have been proven to work by other flying aircraft.

 

Bob Setzer

Thanks. It must be hard to wait four weeks before removing that right side. we're all hoping it's perfect for you. Well, as perfect as you can get.

there are no reason for dual rudder pedals in a long ez . the rudders are only used during landing and take off and you can not land one from the back seat. during cruse, turns that can be made safely from the back do not require any rudder to make a coordinated turn.

Not wanting to high-jack the thread I moved my question under LongEZ.

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30140