Long Eze Canard Wing Design and Icing??

[GeneralT001]

Hard to find any material wrt the laminar flow of a canard wing and icing/rain. I did come across some info that the wing design was changed because of a nose down trim change in light rain.

What is the latest info wrt any light icing?

 

Thanks

[Marc Zeitlin]

19 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

What is the latest info wrt any light icing?

As with ALL small GA planes that do not have anti-icing equipment, ANY icing is contraindicated. With a GU canard, it's extremely contraindicated, as is any substantial contamination. Roncz canards are less sensitive, but icing is still contraindicated.

Just don't.

[GeneralT001]

14 hours ago, Marc Zeitlin said:

As with ALL small GA planes that do not have anti-icing equipment, ANY icing is contraindicated. With a GU canard, it's extremely contraindicated, as is any substantial contamination. Roncz canards are less sensitive, but icing is still contraindicated.

Just don't.

Hi Marc,

Thanks. My frame of mind is in the "what if" category. Like suppose you leave with VFR everywhere and for whatever reason you get stuck on top of a cloud layer, say 2,000 ft thick. If you are forced to descend below that cloud layer and pick up a trace of light rime icing...is that enough to lose control of the flying surface?

I have a lot of icing experience in military aircraft that have de-icing boots or hot wings. I definitely respect icing. I've also experienced it in a Mooney I owned for a short spell. 

I don't intend to purposefully get into any icing but do I need to not fly even if there is the slightest chance of getting even a trace on the canard? How fearful do I need to be?

[sixfivelrp]

I think I recall seeing a video of a velocity that encountered icing conditions. Thought it was air safety institute or something. You can find that and see the pilot describe the outcome.  Basically lawn dart territory. 

[Marc Zeitlin]

1 hour ago, GeneralT001 said:

I don't intend to purposefully get into any icing but do I need to not fly even if there is the slightest chance of getting even a trace on the canard? How fearful do I need to be?

My COZY MKIV has a Roncz canard. I've had very light icing once, while descending through clouds during my instrument training. It was mostly clear ice - maybe a bit of rime ice on the canard and main wing. Maybe 1/32" thick - maybe 1/16". The ONLY symptoms I noticed (and I did NOT try cruising at normal cruise power with the ice there - we were descending at low power through the clouds for an approach to a VFR airport) was that during the downwind to base turn at 80 KIAS, the nose started bobbing, indicating a canard stall, which I would have EXPECTED to occur at about 65 KIAS, given our GW and CG.

So we flew around for about 10 minutes at 90 KIAS, with the OAT at 39F, waiting for the ice to melt, which it did, and then we landed normally.

Now, others have had light ice with canards, but I'm not aware of whether they were GU or Roncz equipped. Having flown GU canard equipped VEs and LEs, and knowing what I know about GU equipped aircraft's pitch trim issues with severe canard LE contamination (reference the 2003 Airventure Cup Race, where numerous canards had to declare emergencies while landing at OSH after having flown through a cloud of insects at the gate at Aurora, IL and had a buildup of dead bugs on the LE, which I had as well but made a minimal difference for ME with the Roncz canard) I would be substantially more worried about even trace amounts of ice on the canard if I had a GU airfoil.

So it will depend on which airfoil you have and whether, if you have a GU, you've installed either zig-zag tape, vortex generators, or other boundary layer energizing devices to enhance BL adhesion. It will also depend on what you define as "even the slightest chance". There's ALWAYS a "chance". If you're anywhere near icing conditions, just make sure you've always got an out to non-icing conditions, and quickly.

Hope this helps.

[GeneralT001]

4 minutes ago, Marc Zeitlin said:

My COZY MKIV has a Roncz canard. I've had very light icing once, while descending through clouds during my instrument training. It was mostly clear ice - maybe a bit of rime ice on the canard and main wing. Maybe 1/32" thick - maybe 1/16". The ONLY symptoms I noticed (and I did NOT try cruising at normal cruise power with the ice there - we were descending at low power through the clouds for an approach to a VFR airport) was that during the downwind to base turn at 80 KIAS, the nose started bobbing, indicating a canard stall, which I would have EXPECTED to occur at about 65 KIAS, given our GW and CG.

So we flew around for about 10 minutes at 90 KIAS, with the OAT at 39F, waiting for the ice to melt, which it did, and then we landed normally.

Now, others have had light ice with canards, but I'm not aware of whether they were GU or Roncz equipped. Having flown GU canard equipped VEs and LEs, and knowing what I know about GU equipped aircraft's pitch trim issues with severe canard LE contamination (reference the 2003 Airventure Cup Race, where numerous canards had to declare emergencies while landing at OSH after having flown through a cloud of insects at the gate at Aurora, IL and had a buildup of dead bugs on the LE, which I had as well but made a minimal difference for ME with the Roncz canard) I would be substantially more worried about even trace amounts of ice on the canard if I had a GU airfoil.

So it will depend on which airfoil you have and whether, if you have a GU, you've installed either zig-zag tape, vortex generators, or other boundary layer energizing devices to enhance BL adhesion. It will also depend on what you define as "even the slightest chance". There's ALWAYS a "chance". If you're anywhere near icing conditions, just make sure you've always got an out to non-icing conditions, and quickly.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Marc. Not sure what design of canard is on the one I am looking at. Will ask