The N23RR adventure begins!!!

[Bugstrider]

Not sure why my reply did not post, anyway..... here is attempt #2.

 

yarp, fast mover does have wing cuffs as per the original builder. I haven't read any issues regarding unusual flight characteristics in the logs.  From what I have read on TF fences, the biggest benefit is during slow flight.  They help direct air flow over the ailerons providing a little more authority on landing.

I've seen some absolutely huge ones on a variety of LongEz's, so I was looking at more designs for the ones on Vari's. 
 

cheers

Trevor

[slk23]

4 hours ago, Bugstrider said:

I've seen some absolutely huge ones on a variety of LongEz's, so I was looking at more designs for the ones on Vari's. 

Klaus Savier (who first put wing fences on an EZ) wrote an article about them.  It must have been in the CSA newsletter?  My memory is his fences were pretty small.

Here is what I did on my VariEze.  In the time since this picture I've replaced them with white plastic.

Edited May 17, 2022 by slk23

[Bugstrider]

Thank you!

pics like this are exactly what I was looking for. I was planning on using 1.5 mm carbon fiber sheets for my initial set. Would you by chance have the detentions of yours?

thank you again for replying to my question.

cheers

[slk23]

For the dimensions I would have to take some measurements on the weekend when I'm at the hangar.  But I don't think they are critical.

Here is what Klaus did.

Here's a Long-EZ example that's nice but fairly labor-intensive.

Edited May 18, 2022 by slk23

[Bugstrider]

Thank you, those two articles are very helpful.

Cheers

[Bugstrider]

Removed the D10A and shipped up to Dynon for a bench test and general once over.

[Bugstrider]

Looking into seat cushion options for the fast mover. Kinda wonder if the standard  pads offered by Oregon aero are worth a look. 

[Bugstrider]

Good evening everyone,

Tonight, when I moved the VE to the middle of our T-Hangar, I immediately notice the strong smell of Avgas.  The VE has the wings and canard removed and I am in the beginning stages of getting it back in the air.  Upon further investigation, I noticed that the glass fuel filter on the right take was dripping profusely.

This bring me to my question.  Since I am very new to VE ownership, there seems to be a safer fuel filter that can be used.  Is this correct or does the community commonly use the glass and metal old school fuel filters?

Thanks in advance,

T

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Bugstrider

[Marc Zeitlin]

7 hours ago, Bugstrider said:

This bring me to my question.  Since I am very new to VE ownership, there seems to be a safer fuel filter that can be used.  Is this correct or does the community commonly use the glass and metal old school fuel filters?

The VE fuel system as designed is a joke, with crappy plastic tubing and crappy components. If you have a fuel leak, you should replace all the nonsense in the hellhole with high quality rubber fuel lines from the auto parts store at the very least, with a high quality fuel filter from JEGS, Summit Racing, etc.

And never ask what the community uses, as if there's any wisdom in a crowd (or even any agreement). There isn't.

[slk23]

In my VariEze I have good quality rubber hose (as Marc recommends), some aluminum fuel lines around the fuel flow sensor, fuel injection style hose clamps (which stay almost perfectly round when tightened), an RC Allen fuel valve (05-29500 IIRC), and an Andair gascolator/filter.  On the engine side of the firewall it's all fire-resistant hose.

[slk23]

More info:
The fuel system is diagrammed in the VariEze plans Section IIA on page 11. 

My fuel system is exactly as pictured on that page except I added a fuel flow sensor in between the fuel selector output and the gascolator.  Also, the Andair gascolator includes a very good filter.  And as Marc said, replace the plastic polyurethane tubing that's specified in the plans with good quality automotive rubber fuel hose.  Regular hose clamps work but I prefer the ones designed for high pressure fuel injection systems because they stay round when tightened.

The fuel selector/value is 3-way: off, both strake tanks, or fuselage header tank. The original Weatherhead valve proved to require a lot of maintenance; the RC Allen valve is much more reliable and worth the money.

BTW the plans do not include a fuel pump; it's a gravity fed system.  In fact there is a danger in using a fuel pump with the wing strake tanks being teed together in case a fuel cap doesn't seal. 

Make sure the fuel tank venting system is per plans and not clogged; it provides some positive pressure.

[Bugstrider]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:08 AM, Kent Ashton said:

The yellow looks like Tygon tubing which is a good fuel tube but limited to 165 deg F.   https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23487&catid=864

Yours is on the cool side of the cooling system so maybe it's OK.  Yeah, flared aluminum lines and AN fittings would be my choice but how to fit them to your round manifold would be the trick.  You might have to build something new.  I would say if you are careful with the clamps (not to cut into the Tygon) you'd be OK and a fire that reach that area is going to be a pretty bad thing no matter what you use.  Aluminum welds can crack, B-nuts can crack, bad flares can leak so there's that to consider.

It is good practice to bead aluminum line-ends to keep flexible tubes from coming off.  Just sayin'.  Beading tools are very expensive but there is a cheap version.   https://www.wicksaircraft.com/shop/1-2-o-d-tubing-beading-tool/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIscT9n8zY7wIVSFtyCh2K1graEAQYBCABEgIoH_D_BwE  You're probably OK if you keep them inspected and there is no pull on the tubes.

Gascolator:  Somewhere I read that it was good practice to safety wire the 3/32" (?) retaining wires that hold the gascolator in place.  (pic)  Apparently a retaining wire can pop out of its hole and release the gascolator.  I go one turn around one of the wires, around the gascolator and one turn around the opposite wire.  The retaining wheel is also safety wired.  There is a screen filter in the top that should be inspected.  Easy to overlook.

Wire protections:  If I have any really important wires, I use about a 1.5" strip of thin RTV sheet--like baffle material--and sandwich the wire in the piece of RTV, then secure it with a tie wrap.  I hate Adel clamps and avoid them if I can.  The RTV piece will put less stress on the wire  than a plain tie-wrap  There is an old wives tail about dirty tie wraps cutting through a steel engine mount tube.  I don't believe in that grimlin but they could cut into a PVC wire cover.   Most aviation wire is not PVC though.

Thanks Kent,

I will look into a better wire retention set up.  The yellow Tygon tube in the engine bay is solely for venting into the oil separator, so no fuel in those.  My current fuel path is as follows.

fuel line and glass fuel filter from each wing. Each fuel line runs to a “T” junction and flows to a single line. It then goes to what appears to be a one way check valve(? Random guess), and then to the fuel valve that controls the “on/off” header tank. From there it flows through the firewall to the gasgolator(sp) and onto the carburetor via silicone wrapped fuel hose.

 

I will be changing the clear hose in the hell hole to a high grad rubber fuel line and circular FI clamps to tighten up.  I am not too sure about the check valve but I am still learning the VE’s system.  The gasgolator does have tie-wire on it so it looks good.  The two glass fuel filters look exactly like the ones at JEGS and Summit so I will plan on just replacing them.  My local buddy who has a LongEZ has the same filter but only one as it transitions to the main fuel line in the engine bay.

 

[Bugstrider]

3 hours ago, slk23 said:

More info:
The fuel system is diagrammed in the VariEze plans Section IIA on page 11. 

My fuel system is exactly as pictured on that page except I added a fuel flow sensor in between the fuel selector output and the gascolator.  Also, the Andair gascolator includes a very good filter.  And as Marc said, replace the plastic polyurethane tubing that's specified in the plans with good quality automotive rubber fuel hose.  Regular hose clamps work but I prefer the ones designed for high pressure fuel injection systems because they stay round when tightened.

The fuel selector/value is 3-way: off, both strake tanks, or fuselage header tank. The original Weatherhead valve proved to require a lot of maintenance; the RC Allen valve is much more reliable and worth the money.

BTW the plans do not include a fuel pump; it's a gravity fed system.  In fact there is a danger in using a fuel pump with the wing strake tanks being teed together in case a fuel cap doesn't seal. 

Make sure the fuel tank venting system is per plans and not clogged; it provides some positive pressure.

Thank you for all the good info, especially regarding the pump. I am looking into trying to obtain or fabricate the fuel cap chain and metal triangle retention piece like my buddies Long has on the fuel caps.

Are you still using the per-plans valve handle/flag just aft of the control stick with the better valve?

 

 

[Bugstrider]

The tie-wire on the gasgolator 

[Bugstrider]

From what I am seeing regarding cowling clearances, it appears that a spin-on oil filter adapter will clear everything. I had one on our C-150 O-200 and really liked the benefits of having a filter rather than relying on a metal screen.  From what I am initially seeing, I will need to rearrange an anchor point for the existing baffling.

[Bugstrider]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:16 AM, bmckinney10 said:

The plastic tube is for the tank vent lines.  Mine had the same.  They weren't cracked and were still flexible, so I kept mine. 

You may have to move your breather air/oil separator if you are going to add a starter.  My separator was on the starter pad.  I ended up putting the breather tube back on the original O-200 port (near the prop-end of the engine), but had to make one of those Aerobat-style extended tubes to keep oil from spitting out.  I still have a thin skim of oil on the lower cowling after a flight, but I am not losing anything significant.  I may figure out how to eventually add a separator back into the mix.

I am still looking into the lightweight starter option. Another friend gave me another style of an oil separator so I am hoping I can use one of them if I install the starter. We will see….

[Kent Ashton]

12 hours ago, Bugstrider said:

Another friend gave me another style of an oil separator

I can see why oil separators are a good thing on tractor airplanes to keep oil off the bottom but they seem like an unnecessary doo-dad on a pusher.  Maybe if you are planning over-ocean flying and concerned about oil consumption but otherwise . . ..    Either way, they are not seen much on pushers AFAICT.

[Bugstrider]

4 hours ago, Kent Ashton said:

I can see why oil separators are a good thing on tractor airplanes to keep oil off the bottom but they seem like an unnecessary doo-dad on a pusher.  Maybe if you are planning over-ocean flying and concerned about oil consumption but otherwise . . ..    Either way, they are not seen much on pushers AFAICT.

I was just going with what it already had per the build. The existing one may impede the starter if I install one and want to keep things statuesque. What was Mr. Rutan’s reasons for designing and installing one? Was it to keep oil off of the prop? I honestly don’t know regarding the VE. At work, if we don’t run one or it becomes plugged, my camera is non-operational due to the oil covering the lens.

this is the original per-plans one that is installed. 

[MaverickSawyer]

Keeping the oil off the prop would make sense, especially with a wooden prop.

As for more "conventional" birds, I think Kent has it right about keeping the oil off the belly. You don't see them on, say, a 172S, but will on a Cirrus SR22. I think it's more for appearance than anything.

[Kent Ashton]

A search of the Canard Pushers for "separator" suggests using one if your oil consumption is over 1/8 qt per hour and to keep the cowl clean  Search here   http://www.cozybuilders.org/Canard_Pusher/CPs_1_to_82_Sections.txt

    but a lot of folks just run a hose or pipe out along the exhaust or past the aft baffles.  I don't have a firm opinion on them except that I would like the moisture to go out of the crankcase and some say what is recycled is a milky oil/water fluid--I dunno, never had one.  It strikes me that if you are having high oil consumption from blowby past the rings, it might be best to get those cylinders fixed.  Lycoming allows 1 qt in 2 hrs but high oil consumption also reduces the detonation margin.  I suppose it is the same for Continentals.  My advice is pretty milky, eh?  😞

A quick wipe with mineral spirits takes the oil off my prop.  Lead needs a bit more abrasive cleaner.  Cerama Bryte is one I have used.

[Marc Zeitlin]

1 hour ago, Bugstrider said:

The existing one may impede the starter if I install one and want to keep things statuesque. What was Mr. Rutan’s reasons for designing and installing one?

this is the original per-plans one that is installed. 

"Statuesque"? I cannot infer from context what word you were going for here.

Mr. Rutan may or may not have had a reason for designing and installing one, but in any case he didn't either design or install one. Neither section IIA (continental engine install) or IIC (Lycoming O-235 install) of the VE plans show any instance of an air-oil separator. If folks have an air-oil separator on their engines (as I do) it's not because the plans call for it on any of the Rutan derivative canard designs.

Unless I'm missing it somewhere - if you have a pointer to the place in the VE plans that calls for one, I'm interested in seeing it.

[Bugstrider]

3 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Keeping the oil off the prop would make sense, especially with a wooden prop.

As for more "conventional" birds, I think Kent has it right about keeping the oil off the belly. You don't see them on, say, a 172S, but will on a Cirrus SR22. I think it's more for appearance than anything.

Thank you

[Bugstrider]

8 hours ago, Kent Ashton said:

A search of the Canard Pushers for "separator" suggests using one if your oil consumption is over 1/8 qt per hour and to keep the cowl clean  Search here   http://www.cozybuilders.org/Canard_Pusher/CPs_1_to_82_Sections.txt

    but a lot of folks just run a hose or pipe out along the exhaust or past the aft baffles.  I don't have a firm opinion on them except that I would like the moisture to go out of the crankcase and some say what is recycled is a milky oil/water fluid--I dunno, never had one.  It strikes me that if you are having high oil consumption from blowby past the rings, it might be best to get those cylinders fixed.  Lycoming allows 1 qt in 2 hrs but high oil consumption also reduces the detonation margin.  I suppose it is the same for Continentals.  My advice is pretty milky, eh?  😞

A quick wipe with mineral spirits takes the oil off my prop.  Lead needs a bit more abrasive cleaner.  Cerama Bryte is one I have used.

Thank you sir,

I will begin my CP archive search. When I acquired the VE from the original family, I did get all of the hard copies of the CP.  The plans I got are not in great shape and I need to look into preserving them for reference.  They are more like a pile of tattered separated papers.  I also have access to the digital copy of the CP on the COBA web site. Thanks again for the info, I am still learning.  Since the VE has effectively returned to it’s place of construction/birth, I want to do right for the family who wants to see 23RR fly again like they asked.

I still need to trace one of the lines on the “installed” oil separator on the VE’s firewall. Most are obvious where they originate in the engine area and where they end up at, there is one that goes back through the firewall and I need to find out exactly where it leads. Since the original builder passed away some years ago, I can only investigate and note what I find.
 

cheers 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Bugstrider

[Kent Ashton]

BTW, the Varieze plans are here under the Open-Vari topic, but not the engine section.

[Bugstrider]

On 8/31/2022 at 5:39 AM, Marc Zeitlin said:

The VE fuel system as designed is a joke, with crappy plastic tubing and crappy components. If you have a fuel leak, you should replace all the nonsense in the hellhole with high quality rubber fuel lines from the auto parts store at the very least, with a high quality fuel filter from JEGS, Summit Racing, etc.

In addition to the items listed above, are there any additional things that can be done to improve the VE's fuel system design?  I am currently reviewing this section in the plans I have with hopes of understanding the design better and the reason it was designed that way.  In the set of plans I have, I did read a section about adding an electric fuel pump.  I have not finished reviewing this particular section of the plans and still working through them.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bugstrider