SOLD: 1997 aerocanard kit, barely out of the box

[Jon Matcho]

Ah, found it on AeroCAD's service centers page.

[TMann]

Just as a benchmark:

What he paid $8125 for in 1997 would cost you $11485 today based on the current prices.

[macleodm3]

Be careful here, when you say these are old parts.

Hello Michael, this is Andrew... I have been discussing your Cozy MKIV strake kit with you via email.

 

These are old parts.  They have been stored somewhere for 20 years... we don't know how much UV exposure has occurred (were they left outside?), if somebody backed over one of the parts with a pickup truck (crushed foam under glass is well hidden), or if someone sprayed them with an unknown cleaner.  It doesn't take much of an effort to damage any of these parts.  There is more of a risk buying secondhand parts than there is buying new parts.  Therefore, the secondhand parts have significantly less resale value than new parts.

 

 

 

 

And, the support comment was completely inaccurate, and without merit. AeroCad kits, components, and parts are being supported. Public comments like this can be damaging, and can easily find a person in a courtroom. Tread lightly. These are litigious times that we live in.

Yeah, I said that whoever buys these parts won't have any support.... that is incorrect.  I should have said they won't have support for these old parts.  Aerocad parts built by the Jeff Russell operated Aerocad are no longer supported.  I have spoken with the current Aerocad with questions about an Aerocad main spar that I own.  The current Aerocad was not able to answer my questions since the parts were built previously by the Jeff Russell Aerocad.  I was offered the opportunity to purchase a set of plans, but not an answer.

 

My question to Aerocad was very simple too.... "Where are the hardpoints for the rear seatbelts on an Aerocad main spar built for a Cozy MKIV?"  They are not in the Cozy MKIV plans location... so where are they?  I found them, but does anyone else know where they are?  

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... All the Aerocad parts I own are VERY NICE.  I own a turtleback, a main spar, a set of wings, foam winglet cores, and a set of armrests.  I have done a lot of work with these parts, and everything has worked out very nicely.  No complaints.  Except for the set of armrests... no micro was used for the glass layups on the foam, and they almost completely delaminated during storage.  I fixed them.

[EZ Speed]

These are old parts.  They have been stored somewhere for 20 years... we don't know how much UV exposure has occurred (were they left outside?), if somebody backed over one of the parts with a pickup truck (crushed foam under glass is well hidden), or if someone sprayed them with an unknown cleaner.  It doesn't take much of an effort to damage any of these parts.  There is more of a risk buying secondhand parts than there is buying new parts.  Therefore, the secondhand parts have significantly less resale value than new parts.

 

Yes, you're correct Andrew. This is what I was trying to convey in my previous post, but I guess I didn't do a good enough job. What I wanted builders to take from this, is that the idea of prefab parts or their plans-built project having aged along the way during years of building does not in any way make it less safe, or airworthy, simply because they took longer (20 years) to complete the airplane. If parts, or materials are not stored correctly, then they should be inspected closely to see if any damage has occurred due to exposure. Cold is fine. Direct sun (UV) damage is not, and can severely warp and destroy anything left exposed to it. We are in Arizona. The desert will turn anything exposed to it for any length of time into dust. It doesn't care if it's epoxy, rubber, plastic, upholstery, batteries, or skin. 

[EZ Speed]

Hello Michael, this is Andrew... I have been discussing your Cozy MKIV strake kit with you via email.

 

These are old parts.  They have been stored somewhere for 20 years... we don't know how much UV exposure has occurred (were they left outside?), if somebody backed over one of the parts with a pickup truck (crushed foam under glass is well hidden), or if someone sprayed them with an unknown cleaner.  It doesn't take much of an effort to damage any of these parts.  There is more of a risk buying secondhand parts than there is buying new parts.  Therefore, the secondhand parts have significantly less resale value than new parts.

 

Yeah, I said that whoever buys these parts won't have any support.... that is incorrect.  I should have said they won't have support for these old parts.  Aerocad parts built by the Jeff Russell operated Aerocad are no longer supported.  I have spoken with the current Aerocad with questions about an Aerocad main spar that I own.  The current Aerocad was not able to answer my questions since the parts were built previously by the Jeff Russell Aerocad.  I was offered the opportunity to purchase a set of plans, but not an answer.

 

My question to Aerocad was very simple too.... "Where are the hardpoints for the rear seatbelts on an Aerocad main spar built for a Cozy MKIV?"  They are not in the Cozy MKIV plans location... so where are they?  I found them, but does anyone else know where they are?  

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... All the Aerocad parts I own are VERY NICE.  I own a turtleback, a main spar, a set of wings, foam winglet cores, and a set of armrests.  I have done a lot of work with these parts, and everything has worked out very nicely.  No complaints.  Except for the set of armrests... no micro was used for the glass layups on the foam, and they almost completely delaminated during storage.  I fixed them.

 

Yes, you're correct Andrew. This is what I was trying to convey in my previous post, but I guess I didn't do a good enough job. These ARE old parts. What I wanted builders to take from this, is that the idea of prefab parts or their plans-built project having aged along the way during years of building does not in any way make it less safe, or airworthy, simply because they took longer (20 years) to complete the airplane. I have a Cozy fuselage tub that I started building 18 years ago (1998). It still looks like it was built yesterday, because it was kept in a climate controlled environment. I have no qualms at all finishing and flying that fuselage tub. If parts, or materials are not stored correctly, then they should be inspected closely to see if any damage has occurred due to exposure. Cold is fine. Direct sun (UV) damage is not, and can severely warp and destroy anything left exposed to it. We are in Arizona. The desert will turn anything exposed to it for any length of time into dust. It doesn't care if it's epoxy, rubber, plastic, upholstery, batteries, or skin. 

 

Your mention of not supporting the older parts is not completely accurate. Old parts, new parts, it doesn't really matter to me. Provided the parts are in good condition and a builder needed guidance on how they install into the airplane, on a case-by-case situation and time permitting, the support would be there to assist them in getting to the finish line. Heck, we all want to see airplanes completed and flying. That's the ultimate goal. We're all in this together my friend, and fellow aviator.

 

I'm not sure what happened along the way that would create an atmosphere of no-support issues with parts made my Jeff Russell, and parts made after the business changed hands to Al, but that is something that needs to change, and is being worked on as we speak. I worked alongside of Jeff for awhile, and I learned a great deal from him back at the turn of the century. Those were interesting times. I would fully support any parts made back then, as if they were made yesterday. They would simply need a thorough inspection. The installation methods of the parts hasn't changed.

 

My courtroom comment was just a knee-jerk. Idiots sue because they spill hot coffee in their lap. Evil coffee companies.    Our society is over-sensitized... and way too PC. Ya just gotta be careful out there. Businesses can suffer or fail overnight because of one comment posted via social network. Sad!

[Kent Ashton]

I bought an old Long-ez tub, cowls and foam that are flying now. The tub was dark brown--normal for an old project. The ouside of the tub was never glassed and had some abuse but it was easily fixed. The wing foam had some dents; fixed.

 

Used parts and projects are cheap because owners are tired of having their failures around and just want to unload them. Invariably, you will get all of their labor for free.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Kent Ashton

[macleodm3]

 

I would fully support any parts made back then, as if they were made yesterday. They would simply need a thorough inspection. The installation methods of the parts hasn't changed.

 

 

 

Excellent!  Its good to have builder support available.

[Lilipad]

Do you still have the project? If so, how much?

[aerocanard1]

I am the original poster of this kit.  

I was unaware of the long thread that they inspired.  (I thought I was supposed to get notifications of other's posts, but did not receive any.)

I appreciate everyone's input.

We are still trying to find a loving home for the kit.

 

Will put the negotiable price of $3500 dollars on everything and can provide more photos upon request.

 

Would also appreciate guidance from othesr as to whether I should repost elsewhere.

 

Thank you.

[aerocanard1]

More photos.  Almost all parts were kept in boxes indoors since purchase.

Merrill 

503 704 4369

 

[Rivilee]

It was good talking to you Merrill. My wife is excited to make the trip with me to Oregon!

[macleodm3]

So... did you buy the this kit?

[Rivilee]

Andrew, I talked to Merrill and he was pleasantly negotiable on the price. So sometime in July this crazy old man is making a 5000 mile round trip with his son to go pick up some foam and molded parts. There's even a slight possibility that I may be delivering my Q2 kit to someone on the way before I pick up the Aerocanard. I've never been to Portland so we plan on making it a vacation and stop in Yellowstone for a few days on the way back. Never been to Yellowstone either.

 

By the pictures it looks like the foam is in good shape.

 

 The ones microed to the wing spars can be easily removed,...

I'm assuming by that comment it's meant that if the foam is damaged it can be easily removed. When I first read it I thought you meant that the foam needed to be removed for some reason.

[macleodm3]

I'm assuming by that comment it's meant that if the foam is damaged it can be easily removed. When I first read it I thought you meant that the foam needed to be removed for some reason.

That is great news!!!  I hope the parts are in great shape and that you enjoy the journey.

I think you got a great deal on these parts.  You still have a huge project ahead of you, but these parts should help make faster progress.

 

As far as the spar / foam question... yes, you are correct.  If the foam wing cores are badly damaged then it is easy to cut them off of the wing spar and replace with new foam wing cores.

 

Everything looks like its in excellent condition in the photos... this was a good move for someone just starting a Cozy / Aerocanard build.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Andrew Anunson

[Rivilee]

Andrew, thanks for the encouragement. I've been around homebuilts a good while but could never really afford to build one (other than an ultralight). It seems like this one is really coming together. I have sold my Q2 kit without even posting it on a for sale list and the delivery is exactly on my way to Portland. And about 3 days ago I was hired at a job, that combined with my other self employed job (with a good steady income) I really will have the income stream to build this kit. And my wife is really excited about the Cozy as opposed to the Q2. She wants to be able to take some baggage when we go see our future grandkids. And maybe have space to steal one or two of them for a while.

[Craig Brown]

Merrill, have you found a buyer for this project? If available I'm interested but need a price.

Thanks

Craig

Canyon, Texas

 

P.S. I think you and I have talked about this several months ago.

 

[Rivilee]

Yes, it sold. I bought it and it's now home in Tennessee.

[macleodm3]

That is great!  So glad it sold.... I hope you can turn these parts into an airplane.