Progress

[goatherder]

No glassing yet as some of it is still in the mail. Just laid out the side panels and nailed them to the bulkheads to see wtf it'll look like.

[Wayne Hicks]

Now, where did you get the idea to jig upside down? You're not following the plans? That's heresy! Nat's gonna go up there and demand you call it something else, you know! :-)

[goatherder]

Uhhh, well....my plans say to jig it upside down and the top of the sides are straight and flat, so it only makes sense.

 

It's not a Cozy. Its kind of a Long-EZ...or maybe more like a Fat-EZ.

 

Still waiting for UNI from ASS.

 

ASS must stand for Always Ships Slow?

[steve]

Uhhh, well....my plans say to jig it upside down and the top of the sides are straight and flat, so it only makes sense.

 

It's not a Cozy. Its kind of a Long-EZ...or maybe more like a Fat-EZ.

 

Still waiting for UNI from ASS.

 

ASS must stand for Always Ships Slow?

i walked in to the store and got 10ybid,10yuni and it was kinda long and kinda heavy, so i mailed it home, hope it beets me there......lol

[goatherder]

Are you not in Tacoma Steve? I got your PM and will give you a call soon.

[steve]

Are you not in Tacoma Steve? I got your PM and will give you a call soon.

this is my month in sunny California, last week

I'll be mailed home on the 4th.

[Big Steve]

When I lived in S. Calif. In another life. I used to drive by ACS on the way home from work. It made getting parts very convenient compared to order and wait that I now live with. Steve hope you enjoyed the warm weather. I have found ACS to ship pretty fast depending on where it is coming from.

STeve build on

[steve]

thaks steve, and yes it has been nice.

(but i miss my dog ) and my build.

[goatherder]

this is my month in sunny California, last week

Damn...I'm jealous. Are there palm trees?

 

Its gray and nasty here.

[goatherder]

I did my first layups tonight...glassed the back of the F22, F28 and the IP. I won't know how they came out until I peel off the plastic sheeting, but I think I squeezed all the excess glue out along with all the air. Waiting on the 7725 BID to glass in the F22 doubler as the 7781 is not nearly pliable enough to be going around any corners. That stuff is a fairly tight weave...probably why its stronger.

 

One thing is for sure; the plans say you can lay these bulkheads up using strips to save BID cloth and thats not a good idea. Especially on the IP, which you're going to have to look at all the time. Its better to just cut out two full layers of glass and eat the scrap than try to piece it together. I should have known better but pieced it together anyway. Now I'll have to smear some micro on it to smooth out the joggles.

 

Luckily, I've got my trusty Porter Cable vacuum sander. Makes quick work of anything you go after with it...and the shop vac hoovers up 90% of the dust. I can smooth out that IP in about 10 minutes...but its just another thing to muck around with because I was being cheap and trying to save glass. Stupid F%#&@*$ Me...I have plenty of glass.

 

The Pro Set epoxy seems to be nice stuff though - fairly low viscosity and doesn't smell hardly at all. I probably used too much, and then squeegied alot of it back out again after covering with a plastic sheet.

 

I made a heat tent out of two 24"x24" 400w radiant panel heaters set in stands on either end of the layup, with cedar deck boards laid across between them and a sheet draped over the top. We'll see if it works.

 

Ok, thats it. Miller time.

[steve]

Damn...I'm jealous. Are there palm trees?

Its gray and nasty here.

 

I did my first layups tonight...glassed the back of the F22, F28 and the IP. I won't know how they came out until I peel off the plastic sheeting, but I think I squeezed all the excess glue out along with all the air. Waiting on the 7725 BID to glass in the F22 doubler as the 7781 is not nearly pliable enough to be going around any corners. That stuff is a fairly tight weave...probably why its stronger.

 

One thing is for sure; the plans say you can lay these bulkheads up using strips to save BID cloth and thats not a good idea. Especially on the IP, which you're going to have to look at all the time. Its better to just cut out two full layers of glass and eat the scrap than try to piece it together. I should have known better but pieced it together anyway. Now I'll have to smear some micro on it to smooth out the joggles.

 

Luckily, I've got my trusty Porter Cable vacuum sander. Makes quick work of anything you go after with it...and the shop vac hoovers up 90% of the dust. I can smooth out that IP in about 10 minutes...but its just another thing to muck around with because I was being cheap and trying to save glass. Stupid F%#&@*$ Me...I have plenty of glass.

 

The Pro Set epoxy seems to be nice stuff though - fairly low viscosity and doesn't smell hardly at all. I probably used too much, and then squeegied alot of it back out again after covering with a plastic sheet.

 

I made a heat tent out of two 24"x24" 400w radiant panel heaters set in stands on either end of the layup, with cedar deck boards laid across between them and a sheet draped over the top. We'll see if it works.

 

Ok, thats it. Miller time.

on the bulk heads, imo you should peel ply the 2" sides and bottoms.

plastic and peel ply need/holed in a lot of epoxy, and Burt knows that.

so he has you peel ply only the parts he knows you will bond to other parts.

all to often i look at the final part and think the peel looks better so i peel the hole part:( remember, you do not want the glass full of epoxy, just the fiber.

i use the plastic to wet out the glass,then cut to shape, then place over the part,squeegee the air out, remove the plastic and input peel as needed(and in most cases you'll need to add epoxy just to get the peel to stick.

the way you stated you did yours sounds like they were light and not over done:cool: next try tin foil for that crappy little layup behind the ip and the lower layup on the upper forward longeron(o wait, that one in in 2012).

[Wayne Hicks]

Didn't you make your intrument panel from wood? Then just sand off the glass and reglass the panel! Do it over.

[goatherder]

I peel-plyed (peelplied?) all the edges of course.

 

The IP came out fine - the top half that you look at all the time came out perfect...its just a little bit imperfect lower down on the sides and the center partition. The sides get covered with those armrest things and the center I'll coozy up if necessary. Zolatone paint would hide any imperfections anyway.

 

that crappy little layup behind the ip and the lower layup on the upper forward longeron(o wait, that one in in 2012).

2012???? Well...the side foam is already cut and formed, and I'm going to get wood tomorrow (he he) and cut the longerons out on the tablesaw. Then I'll make seatbacks and mock the whole thing up again. Once I'm satisfied with the locations of everything I'll mark it out on the sides and then glass them up. I just gotta know where to peelply, and I gotta figure out how I'm going to mount the main gear.

(as per plans or Cozy style)

 

So maybe a little sooner than 2012.

 

Besides...we're ALL going to be done in 2012 anyway. Haven't you heard?

[goatherder]

HOT DAMN! This Fein tool is the best thing since sliced toilet paper!

[goatherder]

But not quite. I didn't have enough clamps to do both lowers

[TMann]

If I was doing it over ..... I would not have even messed with the fuel sight gauges.

 

Berkut has a nice method of putting the sight guage just inside the strake which is a better angle anyway. With the sending unit available today ..... many don't bother.

[goatherder]

Yeah...so I'm told, and I shoulda known that. It was a pain in the ass to get the glass to lay down in those holes.

 

However, I guess I'll put them in now that I did carve the holes, cause if all the electronics crap out it might be nice to know if there's fuel in the plane.

 

Of course; at that point I would be a glider.

 

Perish the thought.

[mfryer]

Yeah...so I'm told, and I shoulda known that. It was a pain in the ass to get the glass to lay down in those holes.

 

However, I guess I'll put them in now that I did carve the holes, cause if all the electronics crap out it might be nice to know if there's fuel in the plane.

 

Of course; at that point I would be a glider.

 

Perish the thought.

Marc, I hope you plan on having some redundancy. I am not sure what options are available for an auto confersion, but if you have a separate electrical systems for the ignition you would'nt nessisarily become a glider.

[goatherder]

Marc, I hope you plan on having some redundancy. I am not sure what options are available for an auto conversion...

How about 8 ignition coils? Theres some redundancy. All controlled by the same engine controller though.

 

I don't know if there is some type of switch that will allow you to switch between two separate engine controllers, but there might be. I know Tracy Crook(?) at RWS has a dual ECM system for the rotaries.

 

Hey thanks for the help last night Martin.

[ErlendM]

I don't know if there is some type of switch that will allow you to switch between two separate engine controllers, but there might be. I know Tracy Crook(?) at RWS has a dual ECM system for the rotaries.

Al Wick is dealing with this issue. Have a look at his website: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index_files/Page467.htm

[ronny]

Redundancy is a very interesting topic.

 

How far should one go ?

 

Starting with two alternators, feeding two batteries, two ignition systems (one electronic and one mag??), double engine management instruments?

 

Should one work with a double bus? Suppose a verticalpower unit such as VP200 is installed. Would you still build redundancy in here aswell, like having an emergency bypass if the VP200 cuts out?

 

Double GPS for sure, I dont want to get lost. Double EFIS, Double radio's ? Transponder? Autopilot ( I guess not if this one fails it is allways possible to handfly )

 

But other stuff such as brakes, in this USAF report on the Long EZ, brakes were mentioned as a critical issue. So how about installing back up in this department ?

 

back up back up back up. It is very much like backing up your IT system, it s all worthless, untill the system does fail and the back up saves your neck.

 

But how far should one go ?????

 

Ronny

:D :D

[Kent Ashton]

Redundancy is a very interesting topic

Ronny, that's called "thread hijacking"

 

I will defend sight gauges: If they're installed correctly, you can run the tanks down to empty before switching and read the quantity to a half-gallon. If the lenses fog up it's not a big job to pop them off and install new ones. Put a couple of little mirrors on the inside of the canopy and you can read them easily. And they are light.

 

Still, folks using autogas have had problems with the little holes swelling shut or fogging the lenses so I can see where they might want a different system.

[goatherder]

Al Wick is dealing with this issue

Thats right, he is. I looked his plane over one day, but I had forgotten about that.

 

I don't know if Al has even fired his plane yet, and I'm sure he has not flown it since installing the Suburu 6 cyl, so the jury is probably still out on his dual ECM setup. At any rate, I've got a ways to go before I need to worry about it.

[goatherder]

Landing gear bracketry. Cost me $60 in materials but I still need real 8" bolts.

[longez360]

If I was doing it over ..... I would not have even messed with the fuel sight gauges.

 

Berkut has a nice method of putting the sight guage just inside the strake which is a better angle anyway. With the sending unit available today ..... many don't bother.

From an operational perspective, the sight gauges are a wonderful tool. The most accurate indication available and can be calibrated with the nose down & parked and in a cruise aoa. If i were doing it over, for the minimal effort, i would absolutely include them. With the sending units today, i would stress it even more. Too much advice on this forum from builders who are not assessing mods from an operational perspective. Aesthetics for example are driving some really bad ideas.