Big Steve Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I have a question for those of you with oil heat in your plane. I am in the process of building mine right now and would like to know what kind of fans you are using. Maybe more inportant than type how many cfm of air do they move. I was thinking of using a square type like they use in computors I just wondered if that would work. They are nice and light and eze to mount but I am not sure if they will blow enough nice hot air to keep my toes warm. STeve building on Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I have a question for those of you with oil heat in your plane. I am in the process of building mine right now and would like to know what kind of fans you are using. Maybe more inportant than type how many cfm of air do they move. I was thinking of using a square type like they use in computors I just wondered if that would work. They are nice and light and eze to mount but I am not sure if they will blow enough nice hot air to keep my toes warm. STeve building onthe Jabsco marine blowers work the best the computer fans do not put out enough pressure to over come the ducting loses. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/25694?&cid=chanintel&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=25694 Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 (So I guess it's cold and blowing snow up there too, huh?) Fans are great for moving 'free' air, but suk in a ducted application. You may be able to stack two fans, one on top of the other, to marginally improve airflow, but airflow through an oil cooler (or any manner of ducting) will be far better with a blower, aka squirrel-cage. There are light weight 12v blowers, search Mouser.com or digi-key.com, but they're not 'frugal'. Oh, seat of the pants, 100-150 CFM at .25 WC should be adequate for front seat. Depends on the heat load of any 'radiator' you install too. Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiter Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 The little boxers won't do the job. You need volumn and pressure. This is my first version: http://www.iflyez.com/Placards.shtml and you can read about my latest version. http://www.iflyez.com/LongEZ_Retrofit_JAN_08.shtml Waiter Quote F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract visit: www.iflyez.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Here is a link to west marine. It shows a couple of different kind of blowers. http://ecatalog.westmarine.com/full.asp?page=442 The squirrel cage blowers are big bulky and probably heavy. I wonder if the ones they call Yellow tip would work. They seam to be smaller and lighter I could put them in line with the heat exchanger. They say they put out 120 cfm. On the Cozy I have a duct that runs all the way to the back seat of the plane. I wonder if there is enough room to stick the whole heater assembly similar to waiters 2nd unit behind the seat backs above the gear bow and blow into the stock duct hole that we make per plans??? Anybody else thought about that??? Lots of questions STeve Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 ... I wonder if there is enough room to stick the whole heater assembly similar to waiters 2nd unit behind the seat backs above the gear bow and blow into the stock duct hole that we make per plans??? Anybody else thought about that??? Lots of questions STeve Yer way ahead of me in this department, yes I've thought of it. If the plans duct blows air from the cowling, a heat exchanger in the 'well' should work peachy too. Don't forget to allow for make-up air. Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Here is a link to west marine. It shows a couple of different kind of blowers. http://ecatalog.westmarine.com/full.asp?page=442 The squirrel cage blowers are big bulky and probably heavy. I wonder if the ones they call Yellow tip would work. They seam to be smaller and lighter I could put them in line with the heat exchanger. They say they put out 120 cfm. On the Cozy I have a duct that runs all the way to the back seat of the plane. I wonder if there is enough room to stick the whole heater assembly similar to waiters 2nd unit behind the seat backs above the gear bow and blow into the stock duct hole that we make per plans??? Anybody else thought about that??? Lots of questions STeve Nope, been there and tried that. you need about 250 CFM and a squirrel gage puts out more pressure then the axial fans do. you need the pressure to overcome the pressure differential that is in the cockpit. air pressure in the front of the cockpit is higher then the back by 1" wc, so you need to overcome that pressure before you can move any air . heaters mounted in the nose work much better then the ones in the back because they don't have to overcome this pressure and the hot air naturally moves from the front to the back. axial fans put out about 1.5 " wc max. Squirrel cages put out 2.2 to 5" wc. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I wish I had a pic of my installation. I used a motorcycle oil cooler mounted in the right rear seat area under the Butt support. The seat bottom forms the plenum. Air is forced fwd using a West Marine axial blower. Speed is controlled by DC pulse width modulation (Kit from MPJA). Heat is controlled by a S/S ball valve (from Granger) controlled at the throttle quadrant. At full throttle it will blow your socks off. I'll try to get some pics over the New Years Holiday and resubmit. HiGeez Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 HiGeez, Is the fan pushing the cool air through the oil heater or pulling heated air and forcing it to the front? Do you have a duct that runs all the way to the pilot's toes where it counts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The axial fan draws the heated air through the oil cooler. air is forced into the existing heat duct abt 6 inches fwd of the 'plans' scat tube entry point. everything else is 'plans'. I promise, I'll take pics tomorrow morning and post on Tuesday. Jerry Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Big Steve. Here are the promised pics as of this morning. You can email me directly at gyhtwr@hotmail.com or call anytime I'm not asleep @ 864-350-5695 with any questions. Pics are self explanatory, as least to me. This axial fan really puts out the air flow. It will blow your socks off. The printed circuit board is a DC speed controller. the zinc chromated plate is a overboard air dump. I can close it to re-circulate warmed air or dump the air overboard. Jerry ps. tried to attach pics. not enough MB room. email me and I'll send them or go to the other forum. I send them from there. Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Steve, go to Canard Aviation Forum for pics. jerry Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 the zinc chromated plate is a overboard air dump. I can close it to re-circulate warmed air or dump the air overboard. Jerry Perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way (which is not unusual for today). It seems, in the pictures that your heat exchanger is mounted to the seat front from which it draws air from the cabin, under one thigh or another. The seat top, itself, with the bulkheads and the fuselage bottom acts as a plenum. Your axial fan creates a negative pressure in the plenum, drawing air through the heater core and a positive pressure in the duct to heat the rest of the plane through the plans type plumbing. Here's my quandary. If the axial fan draws air through the core, there will be a negative pressure in the plenum with respect to the outside air, because of the resistance of the air going through the heater core. Opening your chromated plate will only allow outside non-heated air to be pulled into the plenum and be distributed. It will not dump heated air overboard unless the shape of your bottom creates some sort of venturi effect which creates more negative pressure than does the axial fan. That being said, Your workmanship puts me to shame. It looks beautiful. In the future, would you please send pictures that are slightly out of focus to make me feel better. Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Jerry: To late tonight to call I will try and get ahold of you this week I have some questions. STeve build on Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Rich, you're right. Except the 'dump' door is only open when: 1. I want outside air, w/ blower sitting at end of runway - no heat, canopy clsd, 2. flow thru ventilation during no-heat conditions, 3. heater in use in the summer and the hot air is intentionally dumped overboard. 4. chewing gum or urine disposal.... jerry Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Rich, you're right. Except the 'dump' door is only open when: 1. I want outside air, w/ blower sitting at end of runway - no heat, canopy clsd, 2. flow thru ventilation during no-heat conditions, 3. heater in use in the summer and the hot air is intentionally dumped overboard. 4. chewing gum or urine disposal.... jerry If you can do #4 from the front seat, you are a better man than I:cool: Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 If you can do #4 from the front seat, you are a better man than I:cool:the chewing gum is easy and the disposal requires you to climb during this procedure. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiGeez Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm blessed........ Just throw it over my shoulder....... HiGeez Quote Jerry Preiser - HiGeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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