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h4h98

Rebuilding a varieze

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If you set your tool post on a lathe at 5 degrees it will cut a 5 degree angle which becomes a 10 degree included angle when you measure the shaft. I dont know how to exsplain it any better. STeve


Steve Harmon

Lovin Life in Idaho

Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ

http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/

Working on Chapter 19,21

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Good point, answers in order are unknown,unknown,unknown,and no.

how can there be that many unknowns? did it just fall from the sky and land on your lawn?

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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If you set your tool post on a lathe at 5 degrees it will cut a 5 degree angle which becomes a 10 degree included angle when you measure the shaft. I dont know how to exsplain it any better. STeve

Your explination it clear, I should be fine now that I have met another varieze builder that is going to loan me his to duplicate.

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how can there be that many unknowns? did it just fall from the sky and land on your lawn?

If you return to the first post of this thread you learn that this plane was found abandoned,it was left behind by a former tenant at our local airport along with other misc. junk and was about to become trash.

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Sounds like you will have to register yourself as the builder. If it was deregistered and you got it as a new project you will have to go thru the whole process. Finish building it and you can go thru all the steps to become the official 'builder'. FISDO and DAR can tell you more of what you need to know to make the FAA happy.

 

I was concerned about the comment in the first post about the epoxy being "Dried out" I'm assuming this to mean that there was probably a lot of cracking in the paint and micro layers. There were not many posts about that statement. If the epoxy and glass layers are cracking or delaminating, the structure will have to be completely replaced. One trick is to wet it down with water and you will actually be able to look into some of the layers of glass/epoxy. This won't work with spars and internal structures of course.

 

Good luck tracking any history and yess....... keep building!:D

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Sounds like you will have to register yourself as the builder. If it was deregistered and you got it as a new project you will have to go thru the whole process. Finish building it and you can go thru all the steps to become the official 'builder'. FISDO and DAR can tell you more of what you need to know to make the FAA happy.

 

I was concerned about the comment in the first post about the epoxy being "Dried out" I'm assuming this to mean that there was probably a lot of cracking in the paint and micro layers. There were not many posts about that statement. If the epoxy and glass layers are cracking or delaminating, the structure will have to be completely replaced. One trick is to wet it down with water and you will actually be able to look into some of the layers of glass/epoxy. This won't work with spars and internal structures of course.

 

Good luck tracking any history and yess....... keep building!:D

Thank you for the input,your right there has not been much posted on the epoxy and it would good to discuss this topic some more. This whole process has been a learning experience for me, and I have learned what I thought was epoxy and fiberglass was actully the micro fill. With the exception of some UV exposuer that dried some of the fiberglass, the rest under the micro was actually in decent shape. So now that I have most all of the sanding done I am looking for input on if I should be considering laying on a thiner layer of bid over the airplane to replace what I sanded or just make the repairs and start with a fresh layer of micro on what I have uncovered. I only sanded about half way through one layer of existing bid fiberglass. Here is a close up of the fiber glass now.

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... With the exception of some UV exposuer that dried some of the fiberglass...

Fiberglass doesn't "dry" out. UV exposure degrades the material properties of the epoxy matrix.

 

... the rest under the micro was actually in decent shape.

If there was micro over the fiberglass/epoxy structure, then the UV didn't get through and damage it at all.

 

... I only sanded about half way through one layer of existing bid fiberglass. Here is a close up of the fiber glass now.

The canard is covered with UNI fiberglass, not BID. You're allowed to sand through about 1/2 of the outer layer of wing/canard/winglet/fuselage skins.

 

Not that I like to rely on web pictures (or any pictures, for that matter) to evaluate layups, but what you've got looks fine. Micro and contour if necessary, then prime/paint. Putting on more layers of fiberglass would be useless, on an overall basis, anyway.

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Micro and contour if necessary, then prime/paint. Putting on more layers of fiberglass would be useless, on an overall basis, anyway.

 

This seems to be consistant with what other builders are telling me,I've one other person that has a long and a varieze under his belt that is going to come look at it. After that I'll go ahead and proceed. I thank all that are helping me with this project with your comments and advice. Its good to have so many people that are still interested in this bird and are willing to help.

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Not that I like to rely on web pictures (or any pictures, for that matter) to evaluate layups, but what you've got looks fine. Micro and contour if necessary, then prime/paint. Putting on more layers of fiberglass would be useless, on an overall basis, anyway.

 

You NEVER want to put a structual fiberglass layer over micro. The possiblity of delamination and failure is too great. The manuals are clear on this. The less sanding you do into the top layer of glass the better. It's almost better to not sand down into the top layer at all. That IS the structure.

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You NEVER want to put a structural fiberglass layer over micro. The possibility of lamination and failure is too great. The manuals are clear on this. The less sanding you do into the top layer of glass the better. It's almost better to not sand down into the top layer at all. That IS the structure.

true, but you must abrade the old surface, so the statement is worded a pinch to the unsafe side

"The less sanding you do into the top layer of glass the better" so no sanding is best ?....can we say..peel-and-fly :P

a little sanding with 36# over the hole plane is what i think i have read over and over again from are designers but you knew that....he he:D


Steve M. Parkins

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Ok everyone, I went to visit the faa today to find out about registering my Varieze and was not happy with what I found out. As stated before I have an airplane that was abonded and no info came with the plane ie.. data plate, n number, paperwork, or plans. It has been determained that I have a rebuildable project by other Eaa members and builders. #1 one I need some sort of prof of ownership and apparently receipts for any building materials is not sufficient. #2 I need a builders logs and pictures and possibly video of the the bulid, now I have been recording what I have done to the plane and Its going to need quite a bit of work to get it done. But I was told that it wont qualify for the 51% rule in which I will be the ultimate builder and able to perform all work and maintenance myself. They told me that I have to be the one that built the fuse, wings ect. I told the FAA well if I did all of that, then I would be 100% builder. After all according to FAR 21.191(g) "Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."I am mearly another particapant in the build of this airplane and there for, I feel that with as much that is is left to do I deserve to be the reg. builder if I finish it. Some of the builder assist programs do not require as much participation as what I will have put in this plane when it is finally complete. So whats your take on the the subject? Am I missing some loop hole here?

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Ok everyone, I went to visit the faa today to find out about registering my Varieze and was not happy with what I found out. As stated before I have an airplane that was abonded and no info came with the plane ie.. data plate, n number, paperwork, or plans. It has been determained that I have a rebuildable project by other Eaa members and builders. #1 one I need some sort of prof of ownership and apparently receipts for any building materials is not sufficient. #2 I need a builders logs and pictures and possibly video of the the bulid, now I have been recording what I have done to the plane and Its going to need quite a bit of work to get it done. But I was told that it wont qualify for the 51% rule in which I will be the ultimate builder and able to perform all work and maintenance myself. They told me that I have to be the one that built the fuse, wings ect. I told the FAA well if I did all of that, then I would be 100% builder. After all according to FAR 21.191(g) "Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."I am mearly another particapant in the build of this airplane and there for, I feel that with as much that is is left to do I deserve to be the reg. builder if I finish it. Some of the builder assist programs do not require as much participation as what I will have put in this plane when it is finally complete. So whats your take on the the subject? Am I missing some loop hole here?

first mistake you talked to the FAA. but you know that now. and those pictures that you had of the beginning of the build. you know the ones that got burned up in the fire. and the others that were looted from the house after the fire. with the receipts. the only way they know it was not owned by you is because someone told them. to bad you don't remember the name of your partner on this project. you know the one that you have known all your life and is now deceased. the same one that they would not know about unless someone tells them. so the local FAA knows about a vari eze that has no owner and some guy is trying to get it registered. I don't think they know about the new plane that someone and their wife build over 51% of called a eze vari. the one that they are trying to register in their wifes name with the help of an out of state DAR .

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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first mistake you talked to the FAA. but you know that now. and those pictures that you had of the beginning of the build. you know the ones that got burned up in the fire. and the others that were looted from the house after the fire. with the receipts. the only way they know it was not owned by you is because someone told them. to bad you don't remember the name of your partner on this project. you know the one that you have known all your life and is now deceased. the same one that they would not know about unless someone tells them. so the local FAA knows about a vari eze that has no owner and some guy is trying to get it registered. I don't think they know about the new plane that someone and their wife build over 51% of called a eze vari. the one that they are trying to register in their wifes name with the help of an out of state DAR .

lol, what plane,who said that, and where was he going ? what day is this ?..

Lynn, you crack me up, good answer.


Steve M. Parkins

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So basiclly I just fill out the 8130-12, submit it and if they ask any questions explain that I regret the fact the the movers seem to have lost the box that contained my photos and logs for project.:cool:I think I'm starting to understand the process. They would like to have them, but If I can't produce them due to circumstances out of my control all they have is my notarized statement and that will work.

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So basiclly I just fill out the 8130-12, submit it and if they ask any questions explain that I regret the fact the the movers seem to have lost the box that contained my photos and logs for project.:cool:I think I'm starting to understand the process. They would like to have them, but If I can't produce them due to circumstances out of my control all they have is my notarized statement and that will work.

What an Plane? did someone say Airplane? Does that guy really thinks he can build his own plane that flys?

Now you are getting it. all you want to do is fly your plane. and you would think they would want to help. its their job. The FAA guys get paid one way or another. but the DAR takes your money so you can fly. Besides not everyone building an airplane can afford to own their own camera and take pictures of their project. you have to make choices when building, a used Brownie camera or a new Lightspeed Zulu one headset. That, any airplane guy will understand. I like, they got buried with my grandmother. no one would want you not to fly just because the pictures of the plane lay in piece with Granny. now that I think about it, maybe it was the camera thats buried with Granny.


Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Who are we talking to h4h98? Might use the signature block feature.

 

Some canarder in Houston probably knows where this airplane came from. I would see if I could track down the owner or his heirs and get a bill of sale, even if it costs you a few hundred. Check around with the old-timers at the Houston EAA chapters; someone might remember it. You never want to lie on FAA paperwork (a felony).

 

If you don't get the repairman certificate it's not a huge problem. You can still work on the airplane yourself and do all the maintenance; you just have to get A&P help to sign off the annual condition inspection.

 

EAA.org has lots of info about registering Exp aircraft.


-Kent
Cozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold

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As Kent pointed out ..... the information is out there. You might have to do a little work to track it down but that is after all the best way to approach it.

 

Suggesting that you lie to the FAA is not what I would classify as 'sage' advice. If they catch you in one lie, your credibility goes right out the window.


T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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I wouldnt want to do anything like that, but I'm still learning I've built probably 70 airplanes and this is the first that will have to be registerd. Seems 35% and 40% RC planes are easyer to get in the air than the 100%.

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Tomorrow is the day, I'm going to get my plans and wing cones. Need to pick up some epoxy and fiber glass to make repairs. Is there a certain type of epoxy and glass I need or can I just get the 3m stuff from home depot for making repairs ie small holes on nose cone and wing tips ect? Also need to find some filler foam, any good sorces for that, I need to remake the arm rest since I cut them out to get to the control hardware.

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Tomorrow is the day, I'm going to get my plans ......

Your questions will be answered in the plans.

You will need a different epoxy since the plans epoxy is no longer made.

 

EZ-poxy

MGS and others are available through Aircraft Spruce, Wicks and others.

Do not use West and make sure it is EPOXY that you are getting.

Marc has more information on approved epoxies on the www.cozybuilders.org website.


T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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I know how folks feel about giving opinions based on pictures, however I would like to submit a few of the wing attach plates. I notice a bit of corrosion on the top plates and would like to get an idea if this is bad or not so bad and what I might do to make sure it does not get worse.

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... I notice a bit of corrosion on the top plates and would like to get an idea if this is bad or not so bad...

Neither I nor one of the QC people here at Scaled who I asked to take a look at your pics would fly with these attach plates and that corrosion. The screw heads don't look great either, and given what we've seen with hidden corrosion of screws, I'd at least want to remove them and examine everything underneath.

 

The glasswork in this area is marginal, as well, but since the other pics you showed seem to indicate decent enough composite work, I'm going to assume that it's a function of the pictures and your sanding that makes it look dry and ratty.

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Neither I nor one of the QC people here at Scaled

 

As in "The Scaled Composites"? Wow now thats what a I call a valued opinion. Well I hate to see it come to this, but this plane may need more than I am prepaired to do. It might be easyer to start from scratch and do a long.

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I'm courious about the 8 screws near the inboard part of the plate, looking at the plans it seems to me that these are srewed down in to a flox filled hole in the spar, is this right? thats all that these do, Also its unclear as to how the rest of the plate is attached the spar, I think it must have a longer piece of aluminium the goes farther back on the spar and is covered with more layers if glass to hold it down and srews serve to keep it from pulling out.

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