Bruce Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 To help this along, I have the LongEZ plans transcribed in a Word DOC that I'd be willing to add to the pile. Not that they are needed at the moment, just so we know that part is done. Is the thought here for a new builder to use the new CAD drawings to print off his full scale templates from, instead of using the ones that Jon has available here for the OpenEZ? Adding a scale to the CAD drawings to check for the correct enlargement size like Jon has would be very helpful for accuracy's sake. Which file format would be the best choice for the average guy to take down to Kinko's and have the full size templates printed from? He'll also want to open them and view them on his computer as well. PDF? Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Chapter 4 fuselage bulkheads. Two parts to this. The drawings and the documentation. Adrian didn't you do this already? Yup. http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1704&d=1211287960 This was a draft I did up ages ago to test the concept. Came out pretty good, but not really verified and some mods required (particulary the part about the landing brake). Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ok. Moving forward with Ch 4. Lets review what is already available and decide what to incorporate into the first draft. I like Adrian's format. Ok if we start with that as the basis of Ch? then add to it from other drawings and documentation. There can be supplemental D drawings to aid builders with D views to assist in understanding some of the more difficult parts or assembles. So. we go with Adrian's Ch4 as the basis for Ch first draft? Need a couple of yeas. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I do have a plotter at home. If you have drawings in CAD to proof, I can do that. My plotter prints 24" x 50' . My biggest complaint about the Long-EZ Drawings is the fact that the airfoils (and other large parts) are pieced together where in the Berkut Drawings it's one piece and plotted. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortal Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ok. Moving forward with Ch 4. Lets review what is already available and decide what to incorporate into the first draft. I like Adrian's format. Ok if we start with that as the basis of Ch? then add to it from other drawings and documentation. They was a copyright issue of copying one for one what the building manual is (a conversation in this area) Lets use the wiki and format it as a wiki should be formated, it might help for structuring the document and attached drawings my 2cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamssson Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hi everyone I see discussion start speeding, and I was busy by last few days. Super-Eze I thing there is no sense to make documentation for all versions "Long EZ" (LEZ). For me exist only one version - original. Reasons are: -safety - unchecked solutions like to be... bad solutions and no one of us want to build something what newer gonna fly. -engineering - There is no possibility to prepare many drawings by one (or two) person (s) for all versions. So once again - original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 My biggest complaint about the Long-EZ Drawings is the fact that the airfoils (and other large parts) are pieced together where in the Berkut Drawings it's one piece and plotted. Elsewhere on the forum are the wing templates I created that are all one piece. Try this (only right wing and aileron templates not done: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2093&d=1223534774 And here's the canard templates: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1706&d=1211433000 Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Elsewhere on the forum are the wing templates I created that are all one piece. Try this (only right wing and aileron templates not done: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2093&d=1223534774 And here's the canard templates: http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1706&d=1211433000 Adrian, I took these files to Kinko's tonight, had them printed and they look great. The 1" marks really helped in checking for accuracy. Measuring from one side to the other, the 1" marks went from right on, slowly progressing to being off by 1/32. The other one was off by 3/32. I had 18 square feet printed for a total of $13.50. I'll check them against my printed templates from the OpenEZ files tomorrow. I'll find someone with a plotter and have them printed and compare all three(I would expect more accuracy from the plotter). Having the wing templates as a single piece and full size is great, nice work. Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Yup. http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1704&d=1211287960 This was a draft I did up ages ago to test the concept. Came out pretty good, but not really verified and some mods required (particulary the part about the landing brake). Adrian, Would you mind giving me just the drawings? I'd like to place them in the plans to see how they look. Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'll find someone with a plotter and have them printed and compare all three(I would expect more accuracy from the plotter). If you are going to go the plotter route, the DWG file of these drawings is somewhere in the sticky post. Around page 20 I think but not sure. Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Adrian, Would you mind giving me just the drawings? Do you mean each of the little drawings used in my CH4 PDF? Most of the colour 3D stuff I still have the DWGs for, however most of the B&W stuff was done on the spot and imported (never saved). As this was just a test I didn't keep most files as it only takes a few minutes to recreate them. I'd like to place them in the plans to see how they look. I am not entirely sure what you mean here, they are already in the plans? Fill me in and I'll see what I still have. Because I lost interest in the OpenEZ I haven't maintained a good "filing system" of all my stuff so it may take a couple of days. Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 If you are going to go the plotter route, the DWG file of these drawings is somewhere in the sticky post. Around page 20 I think but not sure. Found em ... http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2092&d=1223534721 Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Do you mean each of the little drawings used in my CH4 PDF?Yes, that's correct. I believe I can take them from that PDF individually.I am not entirely sure what you mean here, they are already in the plans?Yes, you're correct, however, I have no pictures in my transcribed plans, I'd like to insert your drawings and add the changes from the CP's as well. I know I could just scan in the pictures from the LongEZ plans. Chapter 4 would be an interesting test, similar to what you did with the OpenEZ Plans PDF, but, use all original LongEZ plans with today's CAD drawings. Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Yes, that's correct. I believe I can take them from that PDF individually. You can just double click on the picture on Acrobat, copy it and paste it into your document. Easy as that. I have no pictures in my transcribed plans, I'd like to insert your drawings and add the changes from the CP's as well. I know I could just scan in the pictures from the LongEZ plans. Chapter 4 would be an interesting test, similar to what you did with the OpenEZ Plans PDF, but, use all original LongEZ plans with today's CAD drawings. That's effectively what the OpenEZ plans are, the LongEZ plans with better drawings, readable text, all the CP additions and proven mods. Seems pointless doing this all over again. Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 That's effectively what the OpenEZ plans are, the LongEZ plans with better drawings, readable text, all the CP additions and proven mods. Seems pointless doing this all over again. I thought the first goal and reason for the CAD drawings were to allow the next generation of builders to be able to print full size templates (like you can get for the Cozy) and not have to piece them together. Be able to take them to someone with a plotter and get more accuracy in the printing of the templates. The OpenEZ plans are templates only, not plans, they have to come from TerfCD. I thought this was the first goal in this long (pardon the pun) process. This would be a good improvement, not a duplication of what's already done. The PDF files of your drawings will be ready for me to pickup Monday from a company that prints blueprints. I was going to compare all three for accuracy early next week and give a report back to the group and I think we all know how that will turn out. This company prints cheaper (.25 vs .75 sq ft) than Kinko's, will store the files there and anyone can order a set and they'll ship them to you. We can include their contact info with the templates, or they can use someone local, or use Steve to cut them out. The second goal was to have the original LongEZ plans added to the mix, somehow I don't think Matt from TerfCD will let us use his CD's for the plans. Thus the reason for me to start with chapter 4. After the original LongEZ is complete (including CP's) and can be downloaded in one spot, then start adding the changes and mods as addendum's, so the plane will still be original. A lot of you guys are good at CAD and bring that to the table. I can bring the transcribed plans less the drawings to the table and a willingness to help move this forward. If the above is not where we're headed, I guess I have the intent of this thread wrong. This is a huge project to say the least and will take quite awhile to complete (we all have regular jobs) but, it can be done a little at a time. Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 I can bring the transcribed plans less the drawings to the table Bruce, I was waiting for someones head to spin off! Shouting copyright infringement. Are we passed that now? Then what you are offering is very welcome. OK, Moving on I understand what your saying but I think its two steps ahead of where we are now. I have two questions for the group: 1. We are all in agreement that we are starting with Ch4? 2. Exactly what are the drawings we will need for Ch. (we all know what they are but should stated) My thoughts: We should post the drawings so they can be viewed and discussed. Things like perspective and dimension formats need to be agreed on. Once we have the "approved" drawings then we can do the same with the documentation. once thats done then we put them together and discuss, approve and post on whatever site were posting on. We also need to identify the design panel. Who is going to approve this work for posting. We need 4 people. Please just the yeas don't need the nays. Adrian will you be one on the panel? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Adrian, I was re-reading the posts and I am not sure I understand the disposition of the drawings you created for your documentation of Ch4. Do they still exist? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 We need 4 builders to make up the design panel. If you are interested please let me know. Thanks! Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Bruce, I think you and I and I are on different wavelengths and it is causing some confusion on both our parts. When I referenced duplication of work recently I wasn't talking about the full size templates. What I am talking about is your intention to redo chapter 4. Now if you want to do it then go ahead, no one can stop you but my point is I have already done chapter 4 and the construction method is identical to the LongEZ. I have added some text to clear up some points, added the wires in the screw heads at the firewall (as done by many people) and cleaned up the format. My point is what you are striving for, in this particular chapter, is already done. Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiki Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 We also need to identify the design panel. Who is going to approve this work for posting. We need 4 people. Please just the yeas don't need the nays. Adrian will you be one on the panel? Keith, while I would be a willing participant in the design panel I don't think I am suitably qualified. At this stage I have never built an EZ type aircraft. Adrian, I was re-reading the posts and I am not sure I understand the disposition of the drawings you created for your documentation of Ch4. Do they still exist? I have some of the drawings saved, however a lot were done "on the spot" for the chapter and never saved. To recreate them would only take a few minutes. I did it this way as I was expecting there would be some input for a change here or there. In most cases the response was very positive so that didn't exactly go to plan. Regardless I still have the Microsoft Word document that printed this PDF, and all drawings are captured in that. In this format all drawings are raster (actually they might be WMF vectors, I can't remember how I did it) so cannot be re-opened in AutoCAD to be edited but as I said that's not a problem. Quote Adrian Smart Cozy IV #1453 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Staton Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 As a soon-to-be first time builder (at least to completion - I have completed a LongEZ fuselage though Chap. 4, but I sold it in the '80s), I am watching this very avidly. I am extremely CAD literate - ACAD, Solid Edge, and Generic CADD to name a few) and have done quite a few LongEZ drawings. As an offer, I am posting one I just did of the center spar jig (this because I intend to build the center section first, and then the fuselage - this was one of the pieces of advice given early on in the '80s). It is in PDF format and the scale is 1:12 when printed on standard 8.5X11 paper, landscape. Spar Jig.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Sam thanks for the drawing. Where should we put the drawings while were approving or improving them? would that be the WIKI? Does anyone have the ability to post to it? Adrian, This is asking a lot but would you accept the responsibility for the chapter 4 drawings? Could you re-do the work you did before? Sam, Looks like you have done some chapter 14 work. Would you take ownership of Ch14? Just the drawings for now. We have our first design panel member! Thank you Steve Parkins aka "steve" for stepping up! We have three more openings for the design panel. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Bruce, I think you and I and I are on different wavelengths and it is causing some confusion on both our parts. When I referenced duplication of work recently I wasn't talking about the full size templates. What I am talking about is your intention to redo chapter 4. Now if you want to do it then go ahead, no one can stop you but my point is I have already done chapter 4 and the construction method is identical to the LongEZ. I have added some text to clear up some points, added the wires in the screw heads at the firewall (as done by many people) and cleaned up the format. My point is what you are striving for, in this particular chapter, is already done. I'll be glad to help. Just as a recommendation, here's a couple of questions that I think should be answered first, help make the goal clear. 1) Do we keep it completely original at first with no changes? My vote would be yes. It's a proven design and the majority of the work is already done. If we re-write the plans, I think it becomes a set of plans for a plane that hasn't been built. I haven't checked lately on CH4, but when the CP's/CSA newsletters/forums make a reference to the plans, they're (some)very specific about where the changes are in the plans. If we re-write the plans, a lot of confusion will take place. We can add the upgrades and changes as addendum's, like your Ch4 Adrian. 2) Where do we start? I would recommend the templates, an easy and quick (easy for me to say) goal that will benefit all(see my earlier post). This could also be a two pronged attack, one on Ch???, the other on the templates. 3) I would include all the same drawings that are in the plans, plus add the 3D views to assist in the builders understanding. In chatting with the printers, they mentioned that most prefer PDF files to print from. The cost per sq/ft went up to .90 instead of .25 if I sent the .dwg files. I didn't think to ask, would that be because the different files would be printed on different printers of different quality? My knowledge of CAD is starting to show. Quote Best regards, Bruce Sturgill http://www.pursuitofflight.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Here is the part of the WIKI I don't like. "Please note that all contributions to Open Canard Project may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." Can we get the OPEN-EX added to the Model specifics section and have it broke down like the Cozy MK IV by chapter. Apparently I do not have the access to do this?? Could someone take ownership of this? Could we name it something else?? Project Phoenix? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Bruce, why dont you take ownership of the templates? If I'm reading your post correctly your ready to go. What do you think? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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