Open-EZ - Open CAD design

[adamssson]

Hi I'm new on this forum.

 

I read a lot of topics and saw you have here generally many problems with sharing of CAD drawings.

 

I would like to propose to create "Open CAD Team" who will create complete documentation for Open EZ.

 

Anybody willing to join?

[Super-eze]

I think so many here have started and stopped and have bits and pieces. I think you would be surprised how much is already done. BUT it seems no one is offering anymore.

 

Sure. What format?

 

I'm working in 3dm (rhino)

[adamssson]

I belive you, but nobody put this job in one place. Why?

Format is meaningless, there is a lot of universal formats like IGES or STEP - this is guarantee for open file on every software.

Ordinary I working on Autodesk Inventor and AutoCad, but different software don't make me problems.

[raiki]

The problem with the OpenEZ project to date is some people did some really great work on drawings and docs, then someone else would do the same work, and someone else would do it all over again. After you spend hours on your PC, then other people reinvent the wheel for no better or worse drawing you really feel like you have wasted your time. Yes, I am talking from personal experience.

 

Heck I even found some clown on Ebay selling drawings for the OpenEZ that I created. To this day I am not sure why people were paying for free stuff.

 

Another issue was "the original crew" so to speak decided on boundaries, being a LongEZ clone with all the latest PROVEN developments included (electric landing brake and Roncz canard for example). Some new people would come along and recommend changing the scope. This would go for a week or two then the original idea was nominated again. After that there would be more new people trying the same thing and that ended in the same result.

 

Now don't get me wrong, everyone can have their own opinion and I am not annoyed at anyone. The only issue was this all took too much time and seemed to be going no-where. That's when I opted out.

 

If it was to be re-opened with a restricted "advisory council" who approved drawings and the like I might be interested in getting involved again. I don't intend to be on this council, and personally because it was Jons idea I think he should lead it but I realise he has a life and is busy.

 

Speaking of Jon, I haven't seen a post from him in quite some time. Does anyone know if he is still alive and kicking? Given the Zone is still here I guess he is still paying the bill for the hosting. Anyone??? Jon???

 

FYI - I generally prefer AutoCAD and the DWG format as a personal preference.

[Vortal]

the best example is that website made for the development of open-ez has never been updated/completed by anybody

 

http://www.opencanard.com.php5-4.websitetestlink.com/index.php/Main_Page

 

 

FYI : DWG 2D, Step 3D

[adamssson]

the best example is that website made for the development of open-ez has never been updated/completed by anybody

 

http://www.opencanard.com.php5-4.websitetestlink.com/index.php/Main_Page

 

 

FYI : DWG 2D, Step 3D

 

And thats what I'm talking about. Some people started great work, but nobody finished it.

My idea is take all of this job, arrange all in one standard (DWG, DXF, STEP, SAT, IGES, or PDF - whatever) and put in one place.

 

Raiki

 

Maybe people paying for free stuff because the are have no time for digging zilions topics on the forum to get right drawing versions. Second thing TERF CD doesn't give all informations (like templates) so I think it's little bit stupid to pay 290$ for partly informations.

 

If something goes wrong with my English please - write it - I'm not Englishmen.

[adamssson]

To all.

 

If somebody would like to share of drawings or have any informations about Open EZ please sent it to aratraton@gmail.com

 

I want re-organize whole work and put it on http://www.opencanard.com.php5-4.web....php/Main_Page

 

Most important thing - I have no general drawings (Terf CD) so every information have a gold value.

[Super-eze]

Adrian and Tony did some very good drawings. Adrian started some documentation as well. All good stuff. But now what?

 

Now we start with the same questions over and over again. Will it be a stock EZ? Longer, shorter, wider, ect... Thats where it derails. If you want this to move forward some one needs to take control and make these decisions for better or worse.

 

Pull together a design panel, thats how this should start. 4 experienced builders decide. then move on.

 

Funny thing is the drawings are the easy part!

[Super-eze]

First question for the new design panel.

 

1. Will it be the same length and width.

 

Now we can do the bulkheads.

[emteeoh]

See... that's not at all what I hope to do, nor am I interested.

 

Building an EZ is a long task, and there is alot of information that you need to incorporate into the existing plans. For example, there's about 80 newsletters from RAF some of which include changes that Burt felt were critical safety issues. Products such as the epoxy Burt used have gone off the market, and people have started using others. There's how many years of CSA newsletters to read? And so on.

 

A new builder needs to read as much of all that as he can stomach, and then he can start building, even if he wants a "per-plans" plane.

 

And although people are generous and share everything they've learned, its still alot of places and alot of reading to do.

 

To me, what I hope to do, is share what I collect in one place, a sort of CP/CSA/C-A@yahoo/etc precis, and then incorporate it all into the plans, so that later new builders can just go and read the plans and build.

 

The moment you start talking about changing the length, the size, etc, you've lost me.

 

I hope that the builders before me will be willing to critique my summaries of what they did. That'll be my "committee"... I hope.

[mfryer]

I also do not think it is a very good idea to mess around with the existing design. Particularly if you intend to share those plans with others without engineering and testing etc.

[Super-eze]

I agree (except for the long nose) but with out a decision how do we start? Is that the decision? adamssson... Whats the answer???

 

Some other questions... Would we depict creating some of the components that are readily available form suppliers like CG? Or just list the part number and suppler on the plans? Example torque tube bearing on firewall.

[raiki]

Some other questions... Would we depict creating some of the components that are readily available form suppliers like CG? Or just list the part number and suppler on the plans? Example torque tube bearing on firewall.

I would say the OpenEZ needs to contain information to enable the majority to be built when the suppliers are no longer around. The Girrrls may not be in this business in 20 years. Open an early CP, go to the suppliers list and see who is still available. Obviously some but not the majority.

 

In my view, if the LongEZ plans show how to build it so would the OpenEZ. We have enough resources, assuming the other fellas want to get involved again, to create even better drawings for all parts. Even to the point of having CAD data ready for people to take to machining places for CNC.

 

That being said, I doubt you'll see any more output out of me until we have a "council" type system setup as I discussed in my other post.

 

I already have two questions for the "advisory council". Should we change to Cozy type engine mount pads on the firewall (in place of the Longs extrusions), and also Cozy type main gear bulkheads (again in place of extrusions). This is a against the mandate of the OpenEZ but it is proven canard technology so not way out there.

[TMann]

Do you guys have any money?

 

I ask because you are walking into a big liabilty lawsuit under your current approach.

[raiki]

Do you guys have any money?

 

I ask because you are walking into a big liabilty lawsuit under your current approach.

Oh goody here we go again, yay. This has been said/asked many times, argued many times, much like the whole OpenEZ project.

 

I point you to Marcs post here (#72): http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10290&page=5

 

Particularly this part "He stated that while he/RAF still owns the copyrights, he would not attempt to protect that ownership by legal means."

 

I thank Marc for his post (Dec 08), again going out of his way (at risk) to get the facts to stop the gossip. Being an engineering type (electrical) I like facts and numbers. If this is going to turn into a "but it might" or "they possibly could" or "my uncles cousins sisters boyfriend knows this guy whos been sued before because" and other conjecture then I am out.

 

That's the end of my discussion on the whole subject.

[TMann]

Oh goody here we go again, yay. This has been said/asked many times, argued many times, much like the whole OpenEZ project.

 

We are discussing two different subjects here Adrian.

I'm not addressing the issue of the concept of an 'Open-EZ' at all.

 

My point is that when you start producing plans that incorporate untested modifications by unqualified individuals and distributing them to an unsuspecting public .......... you are begging to get your be part of a very expensive experience.

 

I have no problem with taking the ORIGINAL drawings and converting them to CAD drawings to improve the reproductive quality of the same. It's the altering of the same that I have a problem with.

That's the end of my discussion on the whole subject.

[Super-eze]

How about sticking to the plans but creating options. Give the builder the choice. To the point of the engine mounts. Here are the stock mounts and here is an optional mount that has been proven to operate properly?

 

You guys are getting to hot to soon. I don't see a direction yet so how can there be criticism? I would love to see all the bells and whistles. But maybe its enough of a first step just to get the plans, drawings and fixes in one great format.

 

Lets stick to the plans and create options. We can argue over the options later.

[Vortal]

Again, if you look at the wiki it was planed like that

a "baseline" that is only updated with CP mods and eventually updated materials,

and a "modification" section so people are free to add them or not based on information such as if it is tested, cost, weight increase/decrease, how many aircraft flies with this mod etc.. we are just going thru this again and again and again, without moving forward

thats the reason why i am now in standby in this project

 

 

Mark

[TMann]

....a "baseline" that is only updated with CP mods and eventually updated materials,...

 

If the project adopted those guidelines (i.e. better drawings, cleaner copy incoporating CP updates) you could have a deliverable.

 

You do not need to incorporate a bunch of mods and options. Leave that stuff on the back burner for another phase. The goal should be to get a product completed.

 

Just as mods complicate the build, so have they stalled out the Open-EZ project.

 

Myself ..... I'm just building my plane and doing my own mods. Lord knows there is not a shortage of info out there on the subject.

[Super-eze]

I officially declare the project defined as an exact representation of the original aircraft. Mods are a side dish to be looked a later. Now where to start. ( I thought I would take a stab at sounding authoritative)

 

Chapter 4 fuselage bulkheads.

Two parts to this. The drawings and the documentation. Adrian didn't you do this already?

 

The format is .dwg for the drawings. The drawings and documentation will need to be put into PDF format.

 

I will create an excel file of who is working on what part. just need volunteers.

 

Who will work on ch4??

[Sam Staton]

I've included 5 files I created some time ago in AutoCAD. I will post others, also. Use them as you see fit, with no guarantee of any kind, express or implied.

FITTINGS.DWG

BACKSEAT.DWG

CZ_ELEV.dwg

FIREWALL.DWG

FRNTSEAT.DWG

[Sam Staton]

Here are some more files. Some of the files I am posting are my work, others downloaded from many sources so long ago, I do not remember where they came from. If anyone recognizes their work, I will be happy to give d\credit where credit is due.

FUSELAGE.DWG

FWDBKHD.DWG

INSTPNL.DWG

NG50.DWG

NG51.DWG

[Sam Staton]

This is pretty much it. I also have the OpenEZ drawings, plus access to AutoCAD, as well as another 2D CAD system. If anyone wishes to post paper drawings, I'll be happy to re-create them in electronic format.

PEDALS.dwg

ROLLOVER.DWG

[Vortal]

The format is .dwg for the drawings. The drawings and documentation will need to be put into PDF format.

 

2D should be in PDF, and eventually DWG for edition

3D should be in something else like IGS, DWG is a good 2D format, but not all software out of autocad can deal with 3D DWGs...

 

Who will work on ch4??

 

I did the instrument panel in PDF already, tel me if it's ok

we might want to define a drawing standard also so that drawings are packaged similarly

[Sam Staton]

In this case, I posted what I had. I recognize AutoCAD does not do 3D as well as others. These drawings were more of a design exercise for myself. Re-doing them in 2D will not present a major challenge. My hope is that in this process, some other drawings may be produced. I am in the planning stages of my 2nd LE (the first was still-born, unfortunately, in the '80s). I am hoping to be able to incorporate all of the major improvements that have occurred over the years. For instance, I intend to mount my landing lights in the outboard edge of the strake. I saw some LEs years ago at Sun-N-Fun that had them done and liked it. I also intend to extend the nose fro a more pleasing profile, as well as to mount the battery farther forward (to accommodate an O-320). Drawings for these and many other mods would be very welcome.