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Project Endeavour Cockpit Progress


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Rich,

Thank you very much for your discussion on the bellcrank and push-pull tube situation. I had not initially planned on using tubes but rather cables. The longitudinal tubes would rotate only, not translate. The push pull motion was to come from wires that coupled the two sticks together, while the ailerons was to come from the tube twisting (Coupled through one of the three mechanisms described before). If you could, I would like to see a drawing of what you are meaning. your system sounds like it could be more simple, but I would like to understand what the layout you were imagining looks like. Thank you for the input, and I certainly will give some more thought to that! Thanks!

 

-Chris

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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TMann,

Yeah, unfortunately it seems that way. I still haven't seen anyone point me to a website or business number I can call, request an IO-540 for 26-30K.... Anyways....

 

-Chris

If you read my post it says you cant just call up a website or a vendor. You buy a midtime 540 and have an A+P rebuild it. You have to work to find the right engine and build some relationships. You have to WORK for the cost savings...you just cant go out and call somebody up at a business.

 

This is just like your control linkage here you are asking about. You are wanting others ideas and to provide drawings of their ideas to you, simply for asking. Huh?

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

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If you read my post it says you cant just call up a website or a vendor. You buy a midtime 540 and have an A+P rebuild it. You have to work to find the right engine and build some relationships. You have to WORK for the cost savings...you just cant go out and call somebody up at a business.

 

This is just like your control linkage here you are asking about. You are wanting others ideas and to provide drawings of their ideas to you, simply for asking. Huh?

Edge,

I provided 3 ideas of my own before Rich suggested his.... you make no sense. I was a little fuzzy on what Rich meant, so I asked him to draw it if he had time. If it looked like I was ordering him to do so, I apologize. I provided a mock-up of my cockpit to visually show people my idea and solicit feedback so your assertion that I somehow haven't given any prior thought to this stuff is silly. My objective here is to have people get feedback on my design, and Rich and others have done a great job providing constructive feedback and changed the paradigm I have about cockpit design. Someone talked about making sure switches are near someplace a hand can be steadied in heavy turbulence. This was a great Idea I would not likely have thought of if someone hadn't mentioned it here....

As said before, this thread is supposed to be mainly about the cockpit and instrument panel, so I will take what you said about engines under advisement, and it is prudent advice that I will follow when I get there.

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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Rich,

Thank you very much for your discussion on the bellcrank and push-pull tube situation. I had not initially planned on using tubes but rather cables. The longitudinal tubes would rotate only, not translate. The push pull motion was to come from wires that coupled the two sticks together, while the ailerons was to come from the tube twisting (Coupled through one of the three mechanisms described before). If you could, I would like to see a drawing of what you are meaning. your system sounds like it could be more simple, but I would like to understand what the layout you were imagining looks like. Thank you for the input, and I certainly will give some more thought to that! Thanks!

 

-Chris

Chris, I will try to get a drawing together, if I don't post it in a couple of days, bug me constantly either through my e-mail or through a PM. The technique that I specified can also be used with cables. you might have to make a couple of idlers to accomplish the same result.

 

Rich

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Happened sooner than I thought. Nothing here is in scale I did it in Word and converted it. Don't have access to nor training in CAD. (tail between my canards)

 

If you want to use the same torque tubes for ailerons and elevators in a standard tail plane you have to connect the tubes so they glide together and have bearings which allow linear movement as well as twisting. You can use this same planning for that. If a canard, make it simple and foolproof and copy the way Burt did it. Elegant in it's simplicity.

uneven torqu.pdf

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Hey Rich,

Thanks for the drawing, I think I understand your point more! I think you and I had similar ideas (Check out Method 1 with the universal joint. If I understand your drawing correctly you are keeping the two sticks "speaking" to eachother by a torque tube off-set from the roll axis? In my concept, I use the universal joint on the tube to transfer the roll torque and the cables to transmit the torque to the elevators. I see now that a tube will be necessary to transfer elevator though. This would reduce the risk of losing positive elevator cable tension during high G maneuvers and deflections. I hope I made my initial ideas clear as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

-Chris

post-8660-141090169011_thumb.jpg

COCKPITS.ppt

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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Hey Rich,

Thanks for the drawing, I think I understand your point more! I think you and I had similar ideas (Check out Method 1 with the universal joint. If I understand your drawing correctly you are keeping the two sticks "speaking" to eachother by a torque tube off-set from the roll axis? In my concept, I use the universal joint on the tube to transfer the roll torque and the cables to transmit the torque to the elevators. I see now that a tube will be necessary to transfer elevator though. This would reduce the risk of losing positive elevator cable tension during high G maneuvers and deflections. I hope I made my initial ideas clear as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

-Chris

I notice that the elevator cables are going aft. if you use a conventional elevator it is very hard to use a short throw side mounted joystick, there is not enough leverage or travel to control the surface without the use of servos or aerodynamic assist of some sort. even the big ailerons on a 3200# aircraft will be a challenge with a short side stick. On the canard it is EZ the stick forces are very low. you may have to use a sliding stick for elevator like the Cirrus to get enough travel. This does require a lot more arm movement. just some thoughts.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Lynn,

Certainly a good point! One of the reasons I built the mock-up is to check how much leverage I can get with a side stick. I'm going to check around Oshkosh and see if there are any conventional aircraft that use a side stick. I imagine the Cirrus will be there. Maybe I will be able to talk to those folks and see what the story is! Until I know what kind of control power I need I won't know what leverage I will need to get to a desirable stick force. We'll see I guess, but great point! Thanks!

 

-Chris

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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Lynn,

Certainly a good point! One of the reasons I built the mock-up is to check how much leverage I can get with a side stick. I'm going to check around Oshkosh and see if there are any conventional aircraft that use a side stick. I imagine the Cirrus will be there. Maybe I will be able to talk to those folks and see what the story is! Until I know what kind of control power I need I won't know what leverage I will need to get to a desirable stick force. We'll see I guess, but great point! Thanks!

 

-Chris

Cirrus, Cessna corvalis (renamed lancair) and of course don't forget Airbus.:rolleyes:

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Lynn,

Certainly a good point! One of the reasons I built the mock-up is to check how much leverage I can get with a side stick. I'm going to check around Oshkosh and see if there are any conventional aircraft that use a side stick. I imagine the Cirrus will be there. Maybe I will be able to talk to those folks and see what the story is! Until I know what kind of control power I need I won't know what leverage I will need to get to a desirable stick force. We'll see I guess, but great point! Thanks!

 

-Chris

the cirrus stick moves about 6" fore and aft, not as much as a yoke but in the same manner. You use your arm to pull it back. you can get a 30# pull this way. the Ez stick is with your wrist and 8# would be alot. in the EZ the highest stick forces you will feel are not from the control surfaces but to over come the trim springs. take off the springs and you can fly with one finger.

the Lancair stick forces are a bit high at speed without the trim it is hard to hold with one hand at any thing over 250 MPH. cessna coralis solved the problem by not letting you go that fast.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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cessna coralis solved the problem by not letting you go that fast.

Lynn,

Thanks for the information on the forces and travel involved! Maybe there will be a way to keep the forces down using geometry and the method Rich described (Like the Method 1 in my drawings). I won't know hinge moment data for a little while yet, but this information again gives me something to chew on I was not previously thinking about at this time! Thank you!

 

 

Rich,

If Airbus can use a side-stick, there must be a way for me to do so! Hehe, maybe I'll use fly by wire as well, hehe ;). If I do that I'd probably need a separate auxiliary power unit just to power the hydraulics ;)...

 

-Chris

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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Hi Pezzi,

The Orion is a beautiful airplane. My design will likely have many similarities to the Orion, but as far as I know you can't build them anymore. I thought the molds got sold off to someone in France and are essentially not available for building... Is this not true? I am definitely planning to model my drive system off of the Orion and Mini-IMP. By having the engine near the wing, changes in engine layout will affect the CG a lot less, and the W&B will hopefully turn out well. A preliminary W&B work-up is one of the next things on my long list of design calculations, but I am working on a 3D wing generation tool that will allow me to take .DAT airfoil files and produce the curves for input into CAD for a 3D wing. It's an interesting exercise, I am now learning VBA for excel, and I am enjoying it so far! Thank you for the post! The Orion is a great airplane, and I hope to see one up close @ Oshkosh this week!

 

-Chris

Chris Zupp

~Aircraft Designer~

Preliminary Design Sequence I: Project Endeavour

Aeronautical/Mechanical Engineer

Private Pilot

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