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I originally did the design with the cables as per plans. I was up to three pulleys on each side to properly route the cables and it seemed to be getting complicated. I would like to keep the mechanicals as close to the plans as possible. Ideally the cables (per plans) are cheaper and lighter. The push-pulls are easer to route. But if there is a draw back (ie resistance) then I will have to go back to the regular style cables.

Keith.

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Many of us use push pull cables for throttle and mixture control which are at least as long as the push-pull cables proposed here. Those seem to have limited resistance. If I understand correctly, the aileron circuit is more sensitive to resistance and push pull may me a problem there.

 

I'm open to more educated feedback but it would seem that the proposed cables from the pedals to the belcranks would be an acceptable tradeoff.

 

Phil, Long-ez project Milwaukee.

Phil

Long-ez project

Milwaukee

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Many of us use push pull cables for throttle and mixture control which are at least as long as the push-pull cables proposed here. Those seem to have limited resistance. If I understand correctly, the aileron circuit is more sensitive to resistance and push pull may me a problem there.

 

I'm open to more educated feedback but it would seem that the proposed cables from the pedals to the belcranks would be an acceptable tradeoff.

 

Phil, Long-ez project Milwaukee.

Push pull cables have been used for aileron control on some E racers. the problem with the push pull is that every bend or curve in the cable causes it to have lost motion. for every 90 degrees you will have lost motion for a 1/4". this is ok on a throttle but not good on an aileron. The rudder cables are pull only and need to be very free to move. The the push pull's have to much drag for the rudders. the plans method with the nylaflow tubing has almost no drag at all. if you are not going to put the master cylinders on the fire wall then the bell crank can be replaced with a pulley and one piece of cable from the pedals to the connection of the wings cable. the cable can be the same size as the cable in the wing as it does not have the load of the brakes on the cable.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Lynn,

 

When the P/P cables were used do you know if the cables went all the way to the rudders or just went to the bell crank.

 

I think a pull cable with a pulley at the fire wall is probably the easy way to go.

The push pull cables where used on the ailerons. I tried the cables on the ailerons on mine but did not use them. to much slop . Mine does have the plans rudder cable but with a pulley replacing the bellcrank. the bell crank is only needed for the firewall mounted brakes. the pulleys used are metal to help prevent it from melting in case of a fire. the cable is one piece all the way to the connection of the wing cable. the wing cable is one piece as per the plans.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Yes, the Velocity uses Morse marine type push-pull cables and it does fine, I and some of my Velocity buddies are considering a lighter and lower-friction variety for future consideration.

 

http://n44vf.velocityxl.com/articles/sport_aviation/1986_04_sport_aviation_Velocity_Flies.pdf

 

Brett

---

Brett Ferrell

Velocity XL/FG

Cincinnati, OH

http://www.velocityxl.com

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Yes, the Velocity uses Morse marine type push-pull cables and it does fine, I and some of my Velocity buddies are considering a lighter and lower-friction variety for future consideration.

 

http://n44vf.velocityxl.com/articles/sport_aviation/1986_04_sport_aviation_Velocity_Flies.pdf

 

Brett

Greetings Brett,

 

Just out of curiosity, if the marine push-pulls work fine, what is the stimulus for the lighter lower friction variety??? Certainly the weight difference can't be significant.

 

Thanks in advance

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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Haha, sharp cookie. It works fine, and it's not burning a hole in my pocket to change it, but it's not a perfect system. They are a little on the heavy side, there is a bit of friction in them, and it takes some futzing around to get the slop out of the neutral position.

 

The factory has also identified this as an area of improvement for increasing the Vne above 200 kts on the turbo charged Velocitys (the concern being flutter), and worked out a direct-rod aileron control for the higher speeds. That solution is a bit complicated for my tastes, and I'm not turbo charged, but if I can find a better cable without changing the design, that would be a plus.

 

Brett

n44vf.com

---

Brett Ferrell

Velocity XL/FG

Cincinnati, OH

http://www.velocityxl.com

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Haha, sharp cookie. It works fine, and it's not burning a hole in my pocket to change it, but it's not a perfect system. They are a little on the heavy side, there is a bit of friction in them, and it takes some futzing around to get the slop out of the neutral position.

 

The factory has also identified this as an area of improvement for increasing the Vne above 200 kts on the turbo charged Velocitys (the concern being flutter), and worked out a direct-rod aileron control for the higher speeds. That solution is a bit complicated for my tastes, and I'm not turbo charged, but if I can find a better cable without changing the design, that would be a plus.

 

Brett

n44vf.com

 

Exactly the point of previous posts....Chocolate chip please:cool:

 

Heaviness may be desirable on the elevator since canards are pitch sensitive, but the ailerons????-- especially as airspeed increases---( But then again some people like the way a C210 or C310 feels.)

 

All systems, except direct connection will have some drag and slop. the different systems will have more or less drag and slop depending on their design and the tolerance of the parts used.

 

Why did Velo go away from the torque tube design used by all of the previous ez flock?

 

Push-pull cables are great for throttle and transmission on boats where they must traverse many feet (depending on the size of the craft) sometimes going in circuitous paths from start to finish. They are also good on our throttles, mixtures, and prop controls.I am going to use them on my auto-locking mechanism of my canopy ( a subject for a future post).

 

For control surfaces, however, maybe not so good. Hydraulics might be an idea, what about servo motors or linear actuators? what about computer control of these (we can call it a Canard Bus-- Or do we want to keep it simple on our birds. Perhaps a simple pull-pull cable system would be better, been used on tail feathers and ailerons forever.

 

I, like Jeff Russell, considered using PP cables for my ailerons from the firewall bell cranks to the aileron torque tubes. Like him, I decided not to.

 

Speaking of PP, I have to take my dog, Grover. for a walk now:rolleyes:

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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The push pull cables where used on the ailerons. I tried the cables on the ailerons on mine but did not use them. to much slop . Mine does have the plans rudder cable but with a pulley replacing the bellcrank. the bell crank is only needed for the firewall mounted brakes. the pulleys used are metal to help prevent it from melting in case of a fire. the cable is one piece all the way to the connection of the wing cable. the wing cable is one piece as per the plans.

Lynn, do you have a photo of that pulley setup? Is it really just as simple as replaceing the bellcrank with a pully (and proper safeting)?

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Lynn, do you have a photo of that pulley setup? Is it really just as simple as replaceing the bellcrank with a pully (and proper safeting)?

As you can or can't see I did not use any Brock parts. and there is a pulley in there.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Exactly the point of previous posts....Chocolate chip please:cool:

 

Heaviness may be desirable on the elevator since canards are pitch sensitive, but the ailerons????-- especially as airspeed increases---( But then again some people like the way a C210 or C310 feels.)

 

Speaking of PP, I have to take my dog, Grover. for a walk now:rolleyes:

And my point was that they do, in fact, work fine. Danny was a bit unconventional, and folks told him the PP cables wouldn't work. Turns out, they do, for hundreds of planes over 2 decades. It's hard to argue with success.

 

Brett

n44vf.com

---

Brett Ferrell

Velocity XL/FG

Cincinnati, OH

http://www.velocityxl.com

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And my point was that they do, in fact, work fine. Danny was a bit unconventional, and folks told him the PP cables wouldn't work. Turns out, they do, for hundreds of planes over 2 decades. It's hard to argue with success.

 

Brett

n44vf.com

They do work but they feel heavy and are not very sensitive. that may be why the velo feels like it needs bigger ailerons. slow to bank

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Installed forward master cylinders. Going to change the cables to the pully on fire wall as per Lynns photo.

 

Posted Image

 

Those pedals won't work. you have the up- rights on the inboard side and the top piece is to long. need to angle aft and mount much further forward in front of F 22. the top bar is way to long and you don't want the fences on the inboard side. master cylinders go on the outboard. when flying an ez you need to able to put your toes in front of the pedals. the rudder pedals are not used very much during a flight and you need to get your feet in a relaxed position with your toes angled forward by taking your feet off the pedal and moving them through the middle between the pedals. I would stick to the plans dimension. also need sliding connection between pedal and master cylinder and the spring between pedal and cable

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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They do work but they feel heavy and are not very sensitive. that may be why the velo feels like it needs bigger ailerons. slow to bank

Maybe that's why puppies aren't fun, they are too yappy. I like pudding. Insert other meaningless personal opinion stated as fact here.

 

;)

 

Not everybody is a fan, and that's cool, but that doesn't mean it isn't right just because you don't like it.

---

Brett Ferrell

Velocity XL/FG

Cincinnati, OH

http://www.velocityxl.com

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Maybe that's why puppies aren't fun, they are too yappy. I like pudding. Insert other meaningless personal opinion stated as fact here.

 

;)

 

Not everybody is a fan, and that's cool, but that doesn't mean it isn't right just because you don't like it.

I did not say it was a fact. I said it felt heavy, as in to me it felt heavy when I flew it. or it feels like it needs bigger ailerons as in it feels that way to me. I have flown many types of ez aircraft and in MY opinon the velo flys the heaviest of them all. thats not saying it is a bad thing it is just what it is, a big heavy airplane compared to a vari ez. my plane is also heavier then a vari ez and it flys like it is heavier.

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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I didn't see the the "to me" in the original posting. Without it, it reads (to me) like it feels that way to everyone. I don't hear or see Velocity owners rushing off to change anything so it seems most folks are content with the factory cable solution.

 

B

---

Brett Ferrell

Velocity XL/FG

Cincinnati, OH

http://www.velocityxl.com

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