Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Its easy enough to do the rudder cables either way. Preference and cost I guess. I thought I posted a picture of the center section spar in the first few posts. It came out black and hard to see so I included the CS spar in this post. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 The CS spar slips through the side just like the standard tub. Attaching it to the air frame is under discussion. The easy method would be to lap layers of bid over the tube frame on the top sides and bottom of the spar. If the spar was built with hard points then it would just bolt on like the wings. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Lynn, Out of everything that you see of those pedals the one thing I would like to try and keep is the brake cylinders on the inside. I need to take advantage of the available mount. As for the rest... the reason for the top bar being long is obviously because I put the vertical tube on the inboard side. I could run the rudder cables down the center of the airframe and reduce the top bar to its normal size. They do need to be moved aft. The plans suggest 8" forward of the instr panel if they are going to be adjustable. That sounds too far aft. Is it? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The CS spar slips through the side just like the standard tub. Attaching it to the air frame is under discussion. The easy method would be to lap layers of bid over the tube frame on the top sides and bottom of the spar. If the spar was built with hard points then it would just bolt on like the wings.I've tried to resist engaging this thread, but this is a safety issue. First of all, the CS spar does NOT slip "through the side just like the standard tub". If you actually had a set of plans for the airplane you're trying to redesign and "make simpler", you'd know that the spar fits into the fuselage from the rear, since the firewall is installed later. Secondly, and more importantly, the safety issue here would be in attempting to have round tubing take the bearing load from the main spar top and bottom. This would apply a line or even worse, a point load to the spar caps, loading it completely differently (and MUCH higher) than the plans method, which spreads the load out over the fuselage sides, the upper longeron, and the firewall. I know that this "improvement" will never be built, but for those other folks that might attempt to use some of this structural design somewhere, somehow, for something, thinking that it's a good idea - please be very careful - this is a disaster waiting to happen. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Mark, Thanks for your evaluation. Sure there are issues to over come. I'm sure you could also quote three ways to spread that load easily. I will make a note of your comment it is actually valuable. No reason it will not be built if its feasible and properly engineered. Isn't this what experimental aviation is all about? New ideas, new methods and, yes, safety. Here is a quote from the plans. "The spar is now complete and can be mounted in the fuselage. Slide it in from one side and center it on the fuselage" chapter 14/Step 13/page 4. I think I have said it more that a few times this Will be engineered by a professional. Why would anyone try to build this in part or whole from a post on a web site? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 You don't need to worry about the push-pull controls as you won't have a center section spar in this design (or so it appears.....to me!) No way to install it. ??? The Long-EZ plans call for the fire wall to be glassed to the fuselage way early in construction and the center section spar to be slid in from the side. However as many folks have ponted out the installation is much easier if the firewall installation is completed after the center spar is installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 ??? The Long-EZ plans call for the fire wall to be glassed to the fuselage way early in construction and the center section spar to be slid in from the side. However as many folks have ponted out the installation is much easier if the firewall installation is completed after the center spar is installed. It is much EZ'r to install the CS Spar prior to the firewall. It is next to impossible to install it after the firewall (without a hatchet.) Add to that a welded frame with no rear access even without the firewall. Point being, I think I could build the fuselage faster (per plans) in the real world than it can be built in the virtual world. This thread has no real world substance which is why you don't see a lot on technical input. It's more of a blog. It does not apply to any of the canard projects we're working on anymore than a thread on an R/C Long-EZ would. Even when Nat morphed the Long-EZ into the C-3, he built a Long-EZ first. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 ..."The spar is now complete and can be mounted in the fuselage. Slide it in from one side ...Sorry about that - the COZY MKIV plans put it in from the rear - MUCH easier, as Tmann states. The rest of the objections to the whole design still stand. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Mark, OK, I will be happy to agree to disagree. But while I have you (so to speak) can a LE fly with cozy wings and canard? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAF_Zoom Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I would not go there if I were you.... Keep the aerodymics of the LE... or else you are looking at more then just internal airframe modifications... you are talking about a new airframe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Mark,Marc. It's in every signature. ...can a LE fly with cozy wings and canard?What does that mean? The COZY wings are aerodynamically identical to the LE wings, but have more spar cap material. The COZY canard is the same airfoil as the Roncz modification for the LE, but obviously the center section is different structurally, and could not possibly be mounted in a LE. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Mark, OK, I will be happy to agree to disagree. But while I have you (so to speak) can a LE fly with cozy wings and canard? Based on the thread I would recommend consulting with these guys. They have the required experience. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Based on the thread I would recommend consulting with these guys.Boy. People say _I'm_ mean. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Marc, Sorry. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Boy. People say _I'm_ mean.What? I'm just trying to help!?! Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Why I asked the question regarding the Cozy... If you build a LE-type and after a few years you decide to build a cozy-type what components could be transfered from one airframe to another. In my original statement I thought being able to "upgrade" to a larger airframe would be attractive. An alternative to selling the much depreciated LE-type perhaps you could reuse as much of the old airframe as possible. Presently that is not possible but could it be... Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spodman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Mark...[snort, mumble, AWAKE] Yes??? Oh, its been answered. Look boss, de plane, de plane, eets flying backwards... I think its an interesting thread anyhow. Just not sure of what relevance it has to real world aviation. F'rinstance, have you selected the arrangement and size of tubing in the fus for the structural requirements involved, or is it just something funky to look at until the actual designing happens??? Quote Mark Spedding - SpodmanDarraweit Guim - AustraliaCozy IV #1331 - Chapter 09www.mykitlog.com/Spodmanwww.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spodman Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 An alternative to selling the much depreciated LE-type perhaps you could reuse as much of the old airframe as possible.Is a complicated question. I would expect a middle-aged Long to have a greater value than that of its components, but there is a risk in selling your handiwork to others. Through no fault of yours it could crash and the pilot's rellies may attempt to take your house. If you regard the airframe as scrap when you no longer wish to fly it then recycling whatever you can makes some sort of sense. Or take it along to your local machine gun club for some target fun... It's all a bit moot really though. If you're building in steel you aren't building a Long, and if you cut and shut it the result wouldn't be a Cozy. Why don't you design your creation so it can be run through on the centerline with a monster bandsaw and new pipes welded in the gap to achieve the convertablitiy you desire? Quote Mark Spedding - SpodmanDarraweit Guim - AustraliaCozy IV #1331 - Chapter 09www.mykitlog.com/Spodmanwww.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Is a complicated question. I would expect a middle-aged Long to have a greater value than that of its components, but there is a risk in selling your handiwork to others. It's just another speculation based on lack of experience. I would like to see someone match up the bolt holes, of a purchased set of used wings, to either a new our existing center section spar. Big headache. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jppt2000 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 It's just another speculation based on lack of experience. I would like to see someone match up the bolt holes, of a purchased set of used wings, to either a new our existing center section spar. Big headache. Oh yeah, that's alot of work! Been there done that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 Work has kept me away but time to get back to business. I eliminated the tube that was behind the spar and beefed up the firewall. The nose frame went on a diet. Finally decided on the rudder peddals. I struggled with the rudder peddals because I wanted to have the brake cylinders supported by NG30. But that makes them all ass backwards. So the final design is what is shown here. I did use the pulleys on the firewall. I through my peeps in the airframe to check out the dimentions. Pilot is 180 lbs 5'9" tall, GIB is 150 lbs and 5'7" tall. Note: I weighed all suggestions and thank all who made them. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 if you want good G's on that spar,you'll need mounting taps on the leading face. think vw on top till it starts to give(plane inverted), two bolts? Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Steve, I will post what I think your saying. Thanks! Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Steve, Something like this? Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super-eze Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 F22 and F28 canard mount. Quote Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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