Jump to content

Interesting relocation of winglets


ColinB

Recommended Posts

If you have 4 jets under construction then do you have some videos of the proof of concept prototype aircraft flying, that you can post? It would be interesting to see some photos of the finished aircraft as well.

Thanks.

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 59
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Here's their proof of concept flying:

I was hoping for the concept that was presented.

A Cozy with a different engine is nothing new.

 

The example pictured by ColinB has many different and (to my knowledge) untested features such as the winglet design, landing gear, etc.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's their proof of concept flying:

 

http://gregrichter.com/aircraft.html

Y?ou BELIEVE what you posted? Gregs jet is NOT the jet that is being created in that workshop.

 

Everybody with warm blood knows about Gregs jet. This ISN'T it. Building 4 airframes from an untested airframe seems hardly prudent. YMWV.

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Y?ou BELIEVE what you posted? Gregs jet is NOT the jet that is being created in that workshop.

 

Everybody with warm blood knows about Gregs jet. This ISN'T it. Building 4 airframes from an untested airframe seems hardly prudent. YMWV.

 

where do you get that they are building 4 of them like the picture i posted?

 

ezlady said

4 jets, one glassair, one SQ2000, 2 vari, and various things on long eze's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ColinB,

If you found this impressive, hold on to your socks.

There is an eRacer that will be doing flight tests yet this summer that will make that example look like a flying peach crate.

This will be a FLYING example. (not mine)

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack is building a beautiful e-racer that will knock your socks off. However, it is still different then the jets. Greg's jet was a prototype for the engine installation only. That way when you have a different style airframe you are only dealing with one major event at a time. Now, several of the items on the new jets have already been tested. Just did not reveal them to the public. Truly the only NEW thing is the vertical fins. Of course when Mr. Rutan built the first eze I guess that was a flying peach crate too! :)

 

your not so humble builder,(when provoked)

Valerie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how does the rear fins effect balance of the aircraft?

Don't you think you should be talking to an engineer with regards to how these will affect flight characteristics, structeral requirements, etc?

do you think this sort of concept could also work on a prop driven ac ?

The example that I spoke of is a prop driven aircraft. That builder did secure design input from an engineer prior to making his mods.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't you think you should be talking to an engineer with regards to how these will affect flight characteristics, structeral requirements, etc?

 

The example that I spoke of is a prop driven aircraft. That builder did secure design input from an engineer prior to making his mods.

 

if i was do do this myself then of course i would sit down with a calculator and get input from others

 

however it was merely a general question of curiosity than and intention to bolt anything onto my own aircraft build

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An engineer, do you think that we are just that dumb as to not have done all of that already......this is a waste of time. Thank you for reminding me as to why I don't particapate directly on these forums. When you have 35 years experience building and repairing almost 300 hundred eze's call me. I'm done!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An engineer, do you think that we are just that dumb as to not have done all of that already

Hmmmmm ......... it's not about you. I believe the EXACT quote that I responded to was from a different member.

 

I'm impressed. 35 years and 300 EZs. That must have kept you very busy.

I'll be anxious to see these 4 jets flying.

 

Post pics.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still say am hopeful to see it fly.

It's your call as to whether you want to answer questions or not. I dont think working on 350 EZ's qualifies you to say something works until it WORKS throughout all flight testing. What it DOES qualify you to do, along with some engineering, is to have a hopeful outcome with a better degree of potential success. In all fairness to TMann's questions; you post a radical EZ derivative jet photograph with some mocked up landing gear and unsupported rear vert stabilizers, also infer that you are building 4 of these aircraft....say nothing about your engineering and background...of which the photo doesn't appear to support and then huff out of Dodge, after a few posts. What can I say?

Oh, I know what I cay say. I can say that I too have been questioned by a few builders about the modifications I have done on my Cozy, and when it is all said and done, the one guy who wanted "documentation", and justification before he did the same to his project, well, I just said, sorry dude, not going to happen, this is MY airplane, do what you want or dont want to yours... have a nice day. He rolled up his tent and stopped talking to me. BOO HOO. I actually think he hasnt started building anything yet. So if people dont see it the way you do, what the heck. I do still think that proving the airframe would be preferable before starting the other airframes, but who the heck am I to say...YMMV ;)

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW,

 

Ezelady did not post the pix here, ColinB did. She came in to answer a few questions, including one about her being a 'toy', and has received what I would call an aggressive if not hostile line of questions dripping with innuendo - something others have commented about in regards to this forum, myself included.

 

She says they have consulted with engineers, pointed out that someone there does the design work, and they DO build, modify and FLY planes down there, I would leave it at that. Hell, there are Cozy guys apparently planning on putting 540's into their planes chiming in on 'modification', I mean puhlease - Mr Pot I would like you to meet Mr. Kettle.

 

What kind of a heart attack would Nat have about that? Or Burt and the 1100 lb empty weight and 320 or 360 powered Long's? And yet, they fly and fly reasonably well in many cases - I flew one a couple weeks ago myself.

 

It is called EXPERIMENTAL aviation for a reason - once we change something from the original design it is no longer the original design, I think we all understand that whether we are putting 540's into our plane designed for the 320/360, or sticking a kerosene burner into something based on the Long-EZ, or dropping a 3-rotor Mazda into an otherwise stock airplane, or substituting carbon for S-glass.

 

To quote the country duo of Montgomery-Gentry, 'You do your thing, I'll do mine'. Let's give each other a little benefit of the doubt about not being stupid or dangerous, or at least try and ensure the way we ask a question doesn't come out that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW,

 

Ezelady did not post the pix here, ColinB did. She came in to answer a few questions, including one about her being a 'toy', and has received what I would call an aggressive if not hostile line of questions dripping with innuendo - something others have commented about in regards to this forum, myself included.

 

She says they have consulted with engineers, pointed out that someone there does the design work, and they DO build, modify and FLY planes down there, I would leave it at that. Hell, there are Cozy guys apparently planning on putting 540's into their planes chiming in on 'modification', I mean puhlease - Mr Pot I would like you to meet Mr. Kettle.

 

What kind of a heart attack would Nat have about that? Or Burt and the 1100 lb empty weight and 320 or 360 powered Long's? And yet, they fly and fly reasonably well in many cases - I flew one a couple weeks ago myself.

 

It is called EXPERIMENTAL aviation for a reason - once we change something from the original design it is no longer the original design, I think we all understand that whether we are putting 540's into our plane designed for the 320/360, or sticking a kerosene burner into something based on the Long-EZ, or dropping a 3-rotor Mazda into an otherwise stock airplane, or substituting carbon for S-glass.

 

To quote the country duo of Montgomery-Gentry, 'You do your thing, I'll do mine'. Let's give each other a little benefit of the doubt about not being stupid or dangerous, or at least try and ensure the way we ask a question doesn't come out that way.

I think that is what I said.

Innuendo?...about her being a "toy", or what...I am kinda dense?

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seeing how this thread degenerated the way it has is why I have been away for over a year.

 

I have watched the airplane in question being designed, engineered and built over the last few years. It is a very carefully thought out airplane being built by a couple of very experienced and distinguished builders. It is absolutely going to be awesome. It is not a long-ez derivative, it is a completely new design. I can't wait to get my turn with it.

 

There are a couple of mentions of Jack Morrison's new E-racer Xteme in this thread as well. I have seen recent pictures of it and it is going to be fantastic. I am looking forward to seeing it at Rough River this year.

 

Let's put our energy into building our airplanes and not criticizing others.

Rick Pellicciotti

Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.

http://www.belleaireaviation.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Found this in the photo gallery over on the ezjets page

 

quite an interesting looking mod, anyone know much about this?

 

Posted Image

After reading through 3 pages of messages in this thread, I thought I would go back and comment on the first message. I think I understand where the confusion is coming from.

 

ColinB commented on the picture and said it was "an interesting looking mod". That is the root of the problem. This is not a mod. This is a completely new/different design airplane. Yes, it is a canard and the planform is similar to a Long but there is nothing in common with a Long. Having been around this airplane from the inception I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that there are no dimensions on this airplane that are the same as a long or no interchangeable parts.

 

The vertical fins are actually further aft from the center of mass than they would be if they were at the tips of the wings. The angle of the photo does not make this easy to see.

 

There is a comment in this thread questioning the sanity of building 4 airframes of a design that has not flown as yet. These airframes are not being built in parallel, they are being built in series. The confidence in the design and engineering is such that basic dimensions, spar layups and so forth could be considered "frozen". As work continues on the most advanced airplane, things are tried and if they work out, they are incorporated in the follow-on airframes. The way things are going, the number 1 airplane will fly before the flying surfaces are finished on the others. If there are changes to be made after flight test, they will be easy enough to incorporate into the #1 ship and the follow-on ships. Boeing has 4 787 airframes in testing and 12 "production" airframes in various stages of construction and that design has not flown yet. I don't really see any problem with it as long as what you are building is professionally designed and engineered.

 

Regarding the main landing gear, it is beautifully designed and very sturdy. Retracting forward makes good sense. It does not take up space that could be used for fuel in the strake, the slipstream will assist the free-fall of the gear for emergency extension.

 

I have, in the past, been critical of companies offering plans or kits to the public for airplanes that have not flown. This is not the case here. These folks are quietly building airplanes for themselves, not bothering anyone and not offering to sell anything or take deposits for "vaporware". I don't really understand the motivation for some of the critical comments that have been made here. I, for one, am really excited about this airplane. It is going to be very cool.

Rick Pellicciotti

Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.

http://www.belleaireaviation.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, there are many people who want to play "engineer" who don't have the skill sets. Anybody can follow the plans and build an airplane. Just because it says "experimental" does not mean you can design from scratch if you don't know what you are doing---and end the end cost us all in terms of more expensive insurance.

 

Most people recognize Valerie H for who she is----but some of the new people would not recognize her post name nor her first name. Unfortunately, she does not post her full name and credentials----don't know why---she is a powerhouse in ez aviation. So don't know why she would take offense when she has not really made it known who she is (even though the comment was not even aimed at her).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Seeing how this thread degenerated the way it has is why I have been away for over a year.

 

I can't wait to get my turn with it.

 

There are a couple of mentions of Jack Morrison's new E-racer Xteme in this thread as well. I have seen recent pictures of it and it is going to be fantastic. I am looking forward to seeing it at Rough River this year.

 

Let's put our energy into building our airplanes and not criticizing others.

Degenerate is right! Lots of criticizing from some people who haven't even gotten a finished airplane yet. Sheesh! EZlady was very gracious to offer up info on the project and all she got for her efforts was more "You don't know what you're doing without an engineering analisys."

We get that here at Boeing sometimes. "I know you're the expert, but I still think you're full of sh**!"

It's like liberal politicians and bureaucrats telling car engineers over at GM how to design and build cars!

Gov: "We want a car to get 70 miles a gallon and haul four people in safety at 70 MPH."

Engineer: "We can't do that due to the laws of physics and thermodynamic principals."

Gov overlord: "Well those laws are going to have to be changed and we will be the ones to change those laws."

 

 

Hey Rick, You really think your gonna get a chance to get your turn with the jet??? :cool2: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ME FIRST!!! Bring your Credit card for the kerosine bill!!! I'll see you at the test flying when it gets running. Maybe I'll even have my second or third bird in the air by then! Maybe they will let us fly chase? (Don't hold breath!)

post-1769-141090168922_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure I'll get a turn at it at some point. I know what you mean about the credit card. We had an airshow back on Memorial Day and we had the CAF's T-33 do some fly-bys. The next act was a little late getting off so we asked the pilot of the T-33 to make a couple more passes. He called back that he was on the phone with Visa, trying to get his limit raised. :)

Rick Pellicciotti

Belle Aire Aviation, Inc.

http://www.belleaireaviation.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes ..... i do. I just expected better performance.

I would imagine that is an airframe limitatio, yes?

I was just thinking in comparison to the Berkut 540 with a Vne of 250kts (if I remember correctly.)

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information