Next question: is the LEZ panel big enough?

[finaltable]

My Dad's 182 has an IFR equipped panel. Between the nav radios, Garmin 430 and gauges it uses a seat and a half worth of horizontal space and this doesn't include the 496 on the yoke. I don't need the CD player but for long distance, solo, IFR flying it seems to me that a fair amount of electronic equipment needs to be on board. Does the LEZ have the panel space for this or do I have to look at getting one of the double wides like a Cozy/Velocity?

[Edge 513]

All a Long Eze is good for is VFR*- None of them fly IFR so yea you are barking up the wrong tree. I think you ahpuld just use ypur dadz 182 and save a pile of money and time - he probly doesnt uze it that much anyway. Cozys are no good for IFR either, so just find something that fits your needz in the Cessna lineup. Besides. canards are no safer than spam cans either.

At some flyins I have seen some poser EZE airplanes oufitted with IFR equip..but its just for show I think.

YMMV

 

*___ ____-_____

[NeilK]

Modern avionics puts a lot of information in a very small space. As an example, the Dynon D180 puts all flight instruments and engine instruments in a package 7" wide by 5" high. Couple this to a Garmin SL30 at 1.3" high and you've got NAV/COM/LOC and GS that displays on the D180's HSI. Add a GPS/COM such as any of the Garmins and that can couple to the D180 as well. Add the autopilot servos and you're away to the races.

 

Dynon is only one example of the many EFIS that are available today. Blue Mountain, Grand Rapids, MGL, Chelton, Avidyne, and Garmin are just a few more.

http://www.rivetbangers.com/BuilderResources.shtml is a fairly good list of manufacturers.

 

NeilK

2007 Long-EZ C-GNEZ

0-320, Dynon D10a, TruTrac

and other toys.

[NeilK]

PS: I'm with Edge 513. The EZ is not a great IFR platform but the question was, can you fit IFR equipment in the panel and the answer is yes. As much as your wallet can handle.

[SULLY_H60]

In a word...yes. If you equip it properly you have plenty of panel space. There are hundreds of IFR equipped Long EZ aircraft...many on this very forum. I believe Waiter has an IFR package in his in addition to his glass upgrade.

 

My stab at an IFR panel is on this forum as well:

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4874

 

It may cost a few extra bucks to locate 2-1/4" standby instruments, but that is the way to go. Most of the EFIS packages with an HSI take NAV radio inputs so they have tremendous IFR capability. At a minimum I would recommend a 4 pack of standby instruments to do a let down out of the soup if the primary fails.

 

It also depends on the kind of IFR you want to fly. If hard IMC with any ice at all then you may want to consider an aircraft with anti/de-ice capes to get you out of it. My long will be IFR capable to primarily get me on top and shoot the occasional ILS to minimums in warm air as well as maintain instrument proficiency when Uncle Sam stops paying for my fuel.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I have seen a number of EZ aircraft better equipped than most warriors or 152/172s. Equipping it to file and fly IFR is not a stretch. Like any non-ice capable airplane, the level and conditions of IMC you go into is limiting and requires risk mitigation measures and solid GO/NOGO criteria for what you are willing to launch in. To refer to IFR equipped Long EZ pilots as posers is indicative of not understanding their personal needs or goals for the flight profiles they choose to operate in and is ...well... just a tad rude.

[Edge 513]

All a Long Eze is good for is VFR*- None of them fly IFR so yea you are barking up the wrong tree. I think you ahpuld just use ypur dadz 182 and save a pile of money and time - he probly doesnt uze it that much anyway. Cozys are no good for IFR either, so just find something that fits your needz in the Cessna lineup. Besides. canards are no safer than spam cans either.

At some flyins I have seen some poser EZE airplanes oufitted with IFR equip..but its just for show I think.

YMMV

 

*___ ____-_____

My friggin evil twin brother musta posted again. Talk about sarcastic. Everything ezcept the saftey comparison....

I'm guinna have to apply the genital cuff......RUPRECT!!!!!

[jppt2000]

If hard IMC with any ice at all then you may want to consider an aircraft with anti/de-ice capes to get you out of it. My long will be IFR capable to primarily get me on top and shoot the occasional ILS to minimums in warm air as well as maintain instrument proficiency when Uncle Sam stops paying for my fuel.

 

Hope this helps.

 

I'd hate to think what a little rime ice would do to the canard's flight characteristics. Anyone know?

 

A year ago, I had a long talk with a couple flying a heavily IFR equipped RV-6. they were on their way from Minneapolis to New York.

If I remember correctly, it was somewhere in Minnesota in winter.

The freezing level was at 1000 feet with overcast layer two thousand feet thick.

 

Their plan was to scud run until they found a hole to pop up thru.

They changed their minds when I asked them if they had parachute like this Cirrus. Eventhough I doubt it would have helped them around 3000 feet.

A true PIREP.

 

MGM UUA /OV SCD 270004/TM 2200/FL090/TP SR22/IC SVR ICG 077-090/RM ACFT WAS DESCENDING BY PARACHUTE DUE TO SEVRE ICG BUILDUP

[finaltable]

I don't plan on doing any hard IMC flight; at least not by myself and certainly not in icing conditions. While I realize that I will be capable of doing it, I will be far more likely to never even take off if it looks like that is a probability. It isn't worth it. If I have to get there that bad I'll fly commercial. I'm really looking for a way to still get to fly with the storms that come through Georgia. In the Spring/Summer/Early Fall, it isn't uncommon to have bands of storms come through in the afternoons so being able to fly through the clouds and shoot ILS when it rains will be invaluable.

[WileEZ]

Post deleted.

 

I posted a question on heating the wings, but realized this deserve it's own thread, so I'm starting a new thread.

 

I didn't change my mind, just re-posting this in the correct place.

[jppt2000]

Exactly,

I believe the LEZ or Cozy models are very capable of IFR-IMC flying, but to shoot ILS's, execute missed approaches, holds, circling and practicing partial panel takes a tremendous amount of work and dedication.

IMHO, the plane might be capable, but the pilot has to be current and qualified to go out in the goo.

Take look at the ILS approach fixes into KCMH for 28R?

Anybody heard why they got their names?

[SULLY_H60]

That is funny...SUMIE I get,,,the others you will need to elaborate on. I agree that a pilot needs to be very proficient to play with hard minimums in GA aircraft. I fly for a living and in the Army we can shoot the approach regardless of the vis and cielings...fact of the matter is you break out well above minimums most of the time...I think if you are proficient enough to fly instruments in a 172 then a canard would be no different.

 

In military flying the three things disliked most about flying are

1. Getting shot up

2. Thunderstorms

3. ICE

 

You don't see 1 in the US (unless your flying next to a United heavy while the FO is showing off his new TSA approved pistol)

 

Thunderstorms can be dealt with if you can get high enough to navigate around them ( never try to go over one ) and ATC is good about helping you stay out of the heavy precip. If you are IMC at the time you had better have good color weather radar and a storm scope. In a small GA or Experimental aircraft you should just avoid them period and never try to take off ahead of one. Also have a good understanding of Isolated -V- a line...you can't navigate around a line...even in the great state of Georgia:cool:

 

Trace ice on a canard would probably not cause LFS over the cord and you could probably get out of it fine as NASA studies have shown little change with trace. I myself won't be flying a long IFR if icing is forcast period. In my experiance when they usually say trace it is light and when they say light it is moderate. My Go criterea is a check in the NONE block under icing when it comes to light GA/Experimental.

 

Google Nasa+ICE and you will see some very good videos that will convince you a canard like a duck should avoid ice.

 

The RV story is funny and just goes to show you...just because one owns an airplane and has a liscence does not mean they should be flying. Stupid move on thier part...there is a reason why they are called sucker holes...

 

Peace

[jppt2000]

GOTSL Got slow

UNOIT You know it

Paraphrasing the NTSB, A jetstream crew stalled in IMC over the FAF and ended up just east of Runway.

January of 1994

You gotta stay on top of your game if you're gonna fly in the goo.

Single pilot IMC is tough, not being proficient is asking for trouble.

The people I know, fly the LEZ because its relatively inexpensive, tack on the required practice to stay current in IMC, and you're looking at added expense.

[jppt2000]

I don't plan on doing any hard IMC flight; at least not by myself and certainly not in icing conditions. While I realize that I will be capable of doing it, I will be far more likely to never even take off if it looks like that is a probability. It isn't worth it. If I have to get there that bad I'll fly commercial. I'm really looking for a way to still get to fly with the storms that come through Georgia. In the Spring/Summer/Early Fall, it isn't uncommon to have bands of storms come through in the afternoons so being able to fly through the clouds and shoot ILS when it rains will be invaluable.

Exactly, well said, that's what my wife and I plan on doing with our ship down here in Florida.

[Beastus_Maximus]

Just my .02 here, to me IFR Equipment is like a CCW permit and a 1911, I might never need it, probably will never use it. But I have it. And as the saying goes, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

Now call me crazy, trusting the weather man to be right, is like trusting some one who tells you the nights of the week it is safe to go out in a big city that you are unfamiliar with.

 

That IFR gear is going into my bird simply because it will potentially save my life should unforeseen weather circumstances arise.

 

A great case and point on this, I live in South Texas. Once I get myself an Airplane I plan on flying to Boston to see my sister. This is an area of the country I have never flown in, I am totally unfamiliar with it from the air, So having the IFR gear in my bird and knowing how to use it is going to keep me from pulling a John Kennedy Jr. Even if it is a bright sunshiny day.

 

Also attached is a Layout I have been playing around with for my panel.

The equipment is as follows.

 

1. Garmin G600 MFD

2. 2x Garmin 430W GPS NAV/COM

3. Dynon EMS-120 Engine monitor.

4. Garmin GTX-300 transponder

5. Garmin GMA 347 Audio Pannel.

 

It is an initial mockup I did last night, but I sure like it so far. And it shows you can get a lot of gear in there with a little creativity and research. By no means is this my final design, but its looking good thus far, what do you all think?

[rpellicciotti]

Just my .02 here, to me IFR Equipment is like a CCW permit and a 1911, I might never need it, probably will never use it. But I have it. And as the saying goes, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

Now call me crazy, trusting the weather man to be right, is like trusting some one who tells you the nights of the week it is safe to go out in a big city that you are unfamiliar with.

 

That IFR gear is going into my bird simply because it will potentially save my life should unforeseen weather circumstances arise.

 

A great case and point on this, I live in South Texas. Once I get myself an Airplane I plan on flying to Boston to see my sister. This is an area of the country I have never flown in, I am totally unfamiliar with it from the air, So having the IFR gear in my bird and knowing how to use it is going to keep me from pulling a John Kennedy Jr. Even if it is a bright sunshiny day.

 

Also attached is a Layout I have been playing around with for my panel.

The equipment is as follows.

 

1. Garmin G600 MFD

2. 2x Garmin 430W GPS NAV/COM

3. Dynon EMS-120 Engine monitor.

4. Garmin GTX-300 transponder

5. Garmin GMA 347 Audio Pannel.

 

It is an initial mockup I did last night, but I sure like it so far. And it shows you can get a lot of gear in there with a little creativity and research. By no means is this my final design, but its looking good thus far, what do you all think?

Don't forget a two-axis autopilot. You just about have to have an autopilot to safely fly single-pilot IFR. At least I do.

 

There are as many opinions about this as most any other subject on these forums.

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1841&d=1216927366

[Beastus_Maximus]

Don't forget a two-axis autopilot. You just about have to have an autopilot to safely fly single-pilot IFR. At least I do.

 

There are as many opinions about this as most any other subject on these forums.

 

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1841&d=1216927366

For sure that will be in the works, you know what is kind of funny, I traced your panel to start working on mine when I found your website.

 

I am still way early in the concept planning stages, but I am definitely going to be using my machine for some serious cross country when its done, so an auto pilot is going to be a must have. I will be using it regularly to fly from Texas to Montana.

[Drew Swenson]

My Cozy is equipped for IFR---and I have stated many times that the Longez Cozy are not the greatest IFR platforms---not due to panel space but due to their "fighter-like" handling compared to 172s.

 

Fighter pilots will have no problems flying IFR in these planes. 172 pilots just take a little time to get used to it.

 

I don't fly in thunderstorms---and I avoid the rain. The IFR equipment and rating is great for getting in and out of a IMC field with clear on top. I am not real big into taking off IMC and staying IMC until landing----I usually take the pass.

 

I usually do IFR takeoffs with VMC landings. Or VMC enroute to a IMC landing with a good VMC or "easy IMC" divert.

 

It is all about risk and its relation to proficency. In the end, I can always fly another day.

[schmeddz]

Just my .02 here, to me IFR Equipment is like a CCW permit and a 1911, I might never need it, probably will never use it. But I have it. And as the saying goes, I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

Now call me crazy, trusting the weather man to be right, is like trusting some one who tells you the nights of the week it is safe to go out in a big city that you are unfamiliar with.

 

That IFR gear is going into my bird simply because it will potentially save my life should unforeseen weather circumstances arise.

 

A great case and point on this, I live in South Texas. Once I get myself an Airplane I plan on flying to Boston to see my sister. This is an area of the country I have never flown in, I am totally unfamiliar with it from the air, So having the IFR gear in my bird and knowing how to use it is going to keep me from pulling a John Kennedy Jr. Even if it is a bright sunshiny day.

 

Also attached is a Layout I have been playing around with for my panel.

The equipment is as follows.

 

1. Garmin G600 MFD

2. 2x Garmin 430W GPS NAV/COM

3. Dynon EMS-120 Engine monitor.

4. Garmin GTX-300 transponder

5. Garmin GMA 347 Audio Pannel.

 

It is an initial mockup I did last night, but I sure like it so far. And it shows you can get a lot of gear in there with a little creativity and research. By no means is this my final design, but its looking good thus far, what do you all think?

 

You must have some serious cash!!! Definitely no wife/girlfriend/mistress...! I used to plan those kindof things too!

[Beastus_Maximus]

You must have some serious cash!!! Definitely no wife/girlfriend/mistress...! I used to plan those kindof things too!

Well, the plan is evolving, I finally got a price for the G600 today, they want 30 grand! so... ASPEN AVIONICS HERE I COME!!!

[schmeddz]

Check out Dynons next Gen panels on thier website. The trick that all the companies use is to introduce the new stuff at OKosh and Sun-n-fun. The autopilot they introduced at SnF. Now the Next Gen panels are on the website. They just posted it. It looks like Blue mountain stuff and I'll bet it's gonna be a lot cheaper.

Aspen looks nice and I looked at it real serious, but, it's real tiny when you see one in person!

My buddy just got a Garmin 327 and loves it.

[Beastus_Maximus]

I hear you there, if everything goes right and I get through the pipe dream stages of doing what I am doing here and get into making it a reality it will be after the first of the year at the soonest before I can start working on it, so I am speculating that there will be many a good toy that comes out between now and then, it seems like they are making leaps and bounds.

 

I like the size of the Aspen system, I was thinking 3 of em would fill up a Long Ez panel nicely.

 

Before I set anything in stone, I am going to get out there and actually see the stuff, I am going to get involved with the EAA here, and hopefully next year I can hitch a ride to Oshkosh or fun in the sun and check all this stuff out hands on. Then make up my mind as to what will be getting installed.

[schmeddz]

 

I like the size of the Aspen system, I was thinking 3 of em would fill up a Long Ez panel nicely.

.

 

 

And three of those will cost thirty thousand dollars! BwahhHahahahahah!!! Really, those things are 'spensive. Blue mountain stuff is cheaper for what you get.

 

I think that this new Dynon may kill off Blue Mountains niche for flat panels. Or hurt them at least. 10 to 1 odds that the same sized system from Dynon will be priced ever so slightly less. Just not very much less! So it goes. By the time you get built there will be so much available.

Check out Stienair and see what's building. I got a buddy up there who works for him.

[Beastus_Maximus]

I will check him out, and yes, it will cost a bunch of money to run that setup, but the upside is, I can get it a piece at a time verses having to buy the whole kit and kaboodle in one shot...

[Beastus_Maximus]

The one thing I do see that Blue mountain has going for them, is all of thier Efis work as an engine monitor as well, Dynon doesnt, well they have one model that does, but when it comes to double redundancy the Blue mountain or aspen has em whooped.

[schmeddz]

You also have to make the pilgramage to Rough River in the fall. There will be way more people there who know canards than you will find at Okosh. You can get lost in the shuffle at Okosh. The RR crew is concentrated in one area. There were also over 70 canards and thier respective guru's with combined knowledge and seminars. I got to see Jack M's E-racer there. That was a super nice airplane and I got to pick his brain a bit. Unfortunately it was destroyed by fire last month. I see you exchanged mails with jack on another post. (Glad to see that you're Ok Jack!)

Anyway, it's worth a trip if you're serious about building. I did the same back in the early 90's to other Central States events and it sounds like you're in the same place in building or wanting to build that I was.