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Parachutes on a pusher plane.


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Okay, everyone that now feels offended, say "Aye".

I am neither offended nor angry, although I do feel a sense of embarassment.

 

So Jon, can we have that cafe that I spoke to you about?

Starbucks? Or do you mean the Coffee House here. I'm not really into non-canard topics here and don't get the picture many are either. As was mentioned this is where we come when we want to transcend geographical, political, race, religion, and other boundaries to just talk about canards.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Here's an idea, stop compounding the problem by acknowledging the political stuff. It's like watching my 9 year old, neither one will stop once in the argument. I know I just compounded it too, but I'm done.

 

Now the real stuff: My question is this: The plane can still glide fairly well. Why in the world would you get out? The only way I'd get out is if a wing left. At that point all bets are off and that log chain has probably already beaten you to death.

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Here's an idea, stop compounding the problem by acknowledging the political stuff.

I agree. I must admit some guilt by responding to NeoTom's political post to begin with. My apologies. Lets talk about Parachutes and bailing out....

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I am with you Hans. I cant think of any cross section of accidents reported that I have read thru AOPA that called for guys leaping out of their Cessnas and Pipers over the years. The only silk I hope to hit in the next ten years of flying is the silk sheets on the Hotel bed after I get to the resort. I sure am not carrying around a logging chain with me and my wife- or telling the grandkids they have to wear parachutes.

My bad.

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

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Starbucks? Or do you mean the Coffee House here. I'm not really into non-canard topics here and don't get the picture many are either. As was mentioned this is where we come when we want to transcend geographical, political, race, religion, and other boundaries to just talk about canards.

Nope. I talked to you about setting up a moderated open discussion forum. One that any forum member will need to ask permission to view and get in to. A place where we canard enthusiasts can talk about the water well they want to sink by hand, which wireless router to buy, some sports game, a speeding ticket they got, where a good restaurant is, or something stupid they saw on TV.

 

It would be invisible to anyone who is not interested in non-canard topics. They will never know what was being talked about, or that it was even here. Heck, maybe it already is and I wasn't supposed to know.

 

It of course would follow the previously mentioned forum rules of civility of posts.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
N68ML
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I am with you Hans. I cant think of any cross section of accidents reported that I have read thru AOPA that called for guys leaping out of their Cessnas and Pipers over the years. The only silk I hope to hit in the next ten years of flying is the silk sheets on the Hotel bed after I get to the resort. I sure am not carrying around a logging chain with me and my wife- or telling the grandkids they have to wear parachutes.

My bad.

I think the point though is that a parachute and some technique for bailing out is sometimes recommend during initial flight testing.

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I knowwwww. ya got my tongue in cheek..."my bad". Waiter likes those aerobatics though.... he might be carrying that chain around then.:D

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

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But this is what I'm wondering. You are doing a test phase. Silk on yer behind, logging chain in yer lap. Suddenly bam, the wing comes off. Tumbling through the air in all kinds of attitudes, right side up, wheel side up, with this chain flopping around the canopy with your melon. In the middle of all this you are thinking that the plan is to pop the canopy, after securing the chain, then throw the chain, then get out? Doesn't sound practical, or even close to what'll be going thru my mind. I'm thinking: AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH @#$%!

 

Now, bam nothing falls off but you're going down. If the engine is dead, there is no prop to stop anyway. If the plane is still together but with no engine, I'm certainly not just going to jump anyway.

 

What am I missing?

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I am thinking the only reason that a person would need a parachute on there first flight is if they really screwed up building the plane. IE. the wing or canard falls off or they catch it on fire. Both probably major screw ups. In the case of a wing falling off. I think the plane would be moving so violently throught the air getting out of the plane might be impossible even with a parachute and a chain to stop the prop. With a fire you better get on the ground fast. As for me I have put to much time effort sweat and blood into this thing to jump out of it. We are going to go down together. I live in farm country lots of soft plowed ground just make sure you land with the corragates.

Leave politics off of this forum is my .02 I try really hard to stay off politics and religion I have strong feelings on both but try to keep them to myself on this forum. Lets build our little airplanes and Build on STeve

Steve Harmon

Lovin Life in Idaho

Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ

http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/

Working on Chapter 19,21

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I'm thinking: AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH @#$%!

HEY, ME TOO!

 

This is why I practice and review my procedures, so after I say "AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH @#$%" I start implimenting my plan, instead of trying to figure out what to do.

 

 

 

I think the plane would be moving so violently throught the air getting out of the plane might be impossible even with a parachute and a chain to stop the prop.

In all probability, your most likely correct. HOWEVER, there are plenty of scenerios that are perfectly survivable and would allow the use of a parachute. For example, I've seen video of a Mid air collision between an RV and an EZ. The EZ lost its canard and subsiquently nosed over and went straight down, very stable all the way to ground impact. If the Pilot had survived the initial impact, had sufficient altitude, and was consious, he could easily have bailed out.

 

ALSO, I've investigated several EZ crashes, one of which was determined that the aircraft was in an inverted flat spin (inverted deep stall) from approximately 17,000 ft. This pilot was in all probability consious all the way down. If he had a parachute, perhaps he may have used it.

 

 

It all comes down to risk assesment and available options. If I find myself participating in activities that are higher than normal risks, I make an attempt to present myself with more options.

 

I wear a parachute anytime I participate in the following activities; First Flight (actually first two or three hours), Flutter testing, Air Combat Manauvering (ACM), and Formation.

 

With a fire you better get on the ground fast.

This would depend on the severity of the fire and the altitude.

 

Severity would be a highly judgmental thing, i.e. Can I get this thing safely on the ground (May also read ANY ground) before the fire starts doing controllability damage. ( It doesn't take a lot of heat to structurally damage the shear web, i.e. broken exhaust pipe that just happens to be blowing exhaust gasses toward the center spar section, you do have heat shields over the centerspar, Don't You?)

 

I can easily envision being 2 thousand feet over the airport with a fire so severe that I make the decision to hit the silk instead of attempt to land. ( Even as low as 2k ft, the ground is still 1 1/2 to 2 minutes away via controlled aircraft)

 

 

 

As for me I have put to much time effort sweat and blood into this thing to jump out of it. We are going to go down together.

I think most of us think along these lines. Thats all the more reason to pay a hired gun to do a first flight. As I've said before. I'll do what I can to save your plane, but when the time comes, I'm leaving. My butt is worth more than my customers plane. It took the USAF years to get that thought pattern engrained into pilots; "Don't loose your life trying to save the plane"

 

If you're considering performing your own first flight, please sit down with an EAA Flight Advisor and review your qualifications and procedures. Even if you use a hired gun, I would still do the Flight Advisor thing, for both you AND the hired gun.

 

If a hired gun doesn't want to participate in this program, find another hired gun.

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Leave politics off of this forum is my .02 I try really hard to stay off politics and religion I have strong feelings on both but try to keep them to myself on this forum. Lets build our little airplanes and Build on STeve

Then I guess I won't be expecting you to ask permission to Open Discussion.

 

BTW: Thanks for helping me set up my tent.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
N68ML
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Is it even possible to open the canopy in flight? There are a couple of videos on the internet showing some testing done with a glider cockpit attached to a car, and the "pilots" tried to open the canopy at different speeds. It was nearly impossible at most speeds to open that thing. And even when they got it opened, getting out of the plane was another difficult task, it mostly didn't work. And these cockpits are more open and easier to get out of than the average EZ...

 

Has anyone ever bailed out of a flying canard, successfully or not?

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Opening the canopy in flight is no problem.

 

Simply move the latch forward, If you do not have a safety catch, the canopy will fling open.

 

If you have a plans built canopy stay, it will rip it out of the headrest.

 

Odds are good the canopy will slam against the strake and shatter. This could work in your favor, as the plexiglass pieces could damage the propellor.

 

(Does Canopy Closed and Lock alarm sound like a good thing to have?)

 

As for "Hitting the Silk", The closest I'm aware of is the incident involving CG testing of a Velocity (???). The pilot opened the canopy and was literally leaning out and forward over the canard in order to shift the CG.

 

(Someone will chime in with the detailed account, I hope??)

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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You may be thinking of another event, Waiter, but your comments made me think of the velocity deep stall testing.

You can read about the velocity deep stall problems on www.velocityxl.com. He's re-arranged his site recently, so some of the links are dead, but I'm sure its all still there somewhere.

 

Anyhow, as I recall, the early velocities could go into a stable deep stall. velocity got a test pilot to reproduce the phenomenon, and then he tried to figure out how to get the plane out of it. At some point, he gave up, and planned to exit the plane. he didn't lean out to adjust CG (and it didn't make a difference anyhow). When he opened the door, he decided the descent looked slow and stable enough, and decided to ride it down. The plane made a water... landing... with little damage and the pilot was unharmed.

 

There's a little bit about it in CP76.

 

None-the-less, the relevant point is right: the pilot opened the door in flight, and managed to close it again, too, if I recall correctly.

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I agree with Waiter that a parachute during those critical test phases is probably good insurance. I still am not quite understanding the function of the chain... Also...

I wear a parachute anytime I participate in the following activities; First Flight (actually first two or three hours), Flutter testing, Air Combat Manauvering (ACM), and Formation.

Being that I am a GA pilot I will probably not be doing to much of that in my Long-EZ! :)

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The chain serves two purposes;

 

1) I am light and generally when I fly a first flight, we need to add ballast to move the CG forward and into the "First Flight" box.

 

The weight of the chain adds about 20 lbs to my behind.

 

2) In the event of bailout, Open the canopy, throw the chain overboard and to the rear. If the chain touches the propellor, in all likelyhood, the propellor will dissinitigrate.

 

Being that I am a GA pilot I will probably not be doing to much of that in my Long-EZ

Me Too, but when I do, I wear a parachute. :-)

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Easily offended are you?

Well, as an American, I make it as point to talk about what I want, when I want, where I want. If that offends you, you might consider taking your blind lips off Obama’s slippery a** and planting them squarely on mine. Practice your Silly-Lib shut-em-up by calling them a racist tact on someone else, it won’t fly with me, I call them as I see them, and since this is an airplane forum as you pointed out, well, you know, you might want to use your key strokes to talk about things that at least have a chance to fly. ;)

 

Okay, everyone that now feels offended, say "Aye".

Everyone else,

say nothing.

I have some helpful information for you.

 

There are exactly two categories of people who might read any

article you post. The first group comprises those who know you're

a racist, a blowhard and an idiot. The second includes only those who have never heard of you.

 

If you want to maintain as good an image as possible, don't ever post again. Your crude and incoherent nonsense just give the first group an opportunity to laugh at you, and any of the second group, who see your crap, will immediately migrate to the first. So your best bet is to STFU. :rolleyes:

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Nope. I talked to you about setting up a moderated open discussion forum. One that any forum member will need to ask permission to view and get in to. A place where we canard enthusiasts can talk about the water well they want to sink by hand, which wireless router to buy, some sports game, a speeding ticket they got, where a good restaurant is, or something stupid they saw on TV.

Mike, I recall the topic, but not actually 'talking' about it -- did we? Rough River circa...???

 

Regardless, you're the ONLY person asking for such a sub-forum right now. Everyone, speak up if you'd like such a thing, but I recommend against it considering the distractions in some recent threads having to do with politics. I prefer a high signal-to-noise ratio relating to building experimental canard aircraft when I check-in here.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Dang! Hans S said it best:

 

Here's an idea, stop compounding the problem by acknowledging the political stuff. It's like watching my 9 year old, neither one will stop once in the argument. I know I just compounded it too, but I'm done.

Please...

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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