TMann Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I'm not sure ....... but I think I got these template drawings from PTM at some point. Roncz_Canard.pdf Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 G'day Well, I have started to move forward again... I think. Last week the parts arrived and I started to rebuild the elevators with the correct plans this time. Oh, if you haven't figured it out; REMOVE Chapter 10 & 11 from the TERF CD plans.....or risk my mistake.... As I said, I am strting to make progress again. I have attached a couple of pictures. The inserts needed a little sizing to fit. I used my perma grit to sand/file a little off the four corners and they just managed to push in on the iron beam. I pushed from the back of the tube with my hand with the insert on the beam. I then used the 1/8" drill bit to drill the holes in the tube and inserts. I then pop riveted with a 43 rivet the inserts into place. (Sorry I didn't get a picture of the rivet) I used a hand rivet gun and it worked very well. I then used some 5 minute epoxy to seal the seams. After the epoxy hardened I sanded the extra epoxy off. I then alodined the tubes because the sanding had removed some of the treatment. Here are a few pics. I welcome constructive comments. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 G'day Well, I have started to move forward again... I think. Last week the parts arrived and I started to rebuild the elevators with the correct plans this time. Oh, if you haven't figured it out; REMOVE Chapter 10 & 11 from the TERF CD plans.....or risk my mistake.... Jeff Don't throw those chapters away. The Special performace canard (Roncz) plans do make a few references to those chapters. Read through the entire Roncz plans and CP changes before starting on the new canard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 G'day mfryer Nope, did trow them out, but I did put them behind the Roncz and AeroCanard plans.... I think the AeroCanard plans are the best written, but if the Open EZ gets some plans written I would recommend a rewrite of Chapters 10 & 11. Thanks again; Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Jeff: Here are a few pics. I welcome constructive comments. Since I'll be starting my elevators shortly... 1) Don't forget to file a small slot in the tube, to match up with the inserts. This may not be clear now, but will be when you jig them to the table to bond them to the elevator cores... and later with the other half of the elevator hinges. 2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores? Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores? Wayne Hicks wrote something up on this part. (NOTE: I have not done my elevators yet.) He suggests cutting back the foam that wraps aroung the tube. There is a point that you sand back to so you end up fighting to get the tube to fit into the foam...... only to sand it away. Check his web site (smart guy, that Wayne, Lot's of good stuff there.) Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Don't worry about the rivet, the foam won't notice it. Jeffrey, looking good! Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Don't worry about the rivet, the foam won't notice it. Elevator template 'hole' appears to be 13/16", the tork toob is 1". Can't remember the website, but someone ran his cores through an Onsrud CNC panel cutter (fer kitchen cabinet doors, etc.), then cut the 1" hole/slot with a ball end end mill on a router table. Though not beyond my capabilities to do the above, I figure (from the plans pix) the foam tips at the hole get sanded to blend into the tube. Any rivet will make its own path through the foam, and will be buried anyway. I was concerned it may snag/tear as it passes through. Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Jeff: Since I'll be starting my elevators shortly... 1) Don't forget to file a small slot in the tube, to match up with the inserts. This may not be clear now, but will be when you jig them to the table to bond them to the elevator cores... and later with the other half of the elevator hinges. 2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores? Rick G'day Rick 1) Thanks, I saw that. I was going to use my small square perma-grit file to sand the notch down. 2) I guess I could drill that 1' hole and then cut that scrap 2"X4" to make a small jig to hammer the rivet head round and smooth. I will get some pictures of the rivet before and after. I don't think the foam will be damaged. The insides get covered with micro anyway. I have doen the micro the tube into the foam once already (practice, Yeah! practice.... that's the ticket practice. I have a hanger full of practice parts.....). Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think the burnback from the hotwie works out about 1" dia. Try not to overthink it Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Wayne Hicks wrote something up on this part. .... Here's the quote from Wayne's site: Everyone seems to have problems slipping the cores onto the torque tubes without breaking the fragile edges. I simply sliced off an eighth inch from the top and bottom forward edges of the core. The tubes popped right in. Take a look at the drawings…you end up sanding these edges away anyway when feathering in the foam and torque tube prior to layups. An alternative is to slide the cores onto the torque tube, hold the cores still, then rotate the tube while applying liberal amounts of micro. You should review his notes: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/waynehicks/chapter_11.htm Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If I recall, I think we did that as well..looooong time ago! ...Chrissi & Randi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Don't worry about the rivet, the foam won't notice it. Jeffrey, looking good! However the pitch trim bellcrank NC-5A will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 However the pitch trim bellcrank NC-5A will. G'day OK, explain and if you have pics please attach. I do not follow your comment.... Thanks in advance; Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 G'day OK, explain and if you have pics please attach. I do not follow your comment.... Thanks in advance; Jeff The bell crank cannot be installed with the pop rivet installed in the inboard most insert on the left elevator. It will become obvious if you install that pop rivet and then try to slide the bell crank into position. That the rivet would interfere with the bell crank installation did not occur to me until that moment arrived. I simply drilled off the head of the rivet, the bell crank should keep the insert in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 G'day I spent most of the weekend in the hanger working on the elevators. Saturday I recut the cores with the hotwire again. Sunday I trimmed the cores to fit the tubes. I have attached a couple of pictures of the left elevator. I can only layup one tube at a time because I only have two NC-7 jigs. I recommend new builders buy 4 so they can layup both elevators at the same time. I also had some minor issues with the foam cores on the tubes. I trimmed the cores as suggested by Wayne Hicks on his web site, but discovered the NC-7s had a small lip that dug into the foam. I recommend the tip where the insert hole is get trimmed down closer to the hole. I will try it with the right side. With that said the damage was very minor, but it was not a happy feel good feeling to see the core being damaged as I slid it onto the tube. I have a long steel that I placed the layup on and put a weight in place to hold it as the micro bonds to the tube. Oh, if you see the left tube is a little different than the standard Long (Open) EZ tube. I purchased the CZNC-12A assemblies and the left tube gets cut the same length as the right tube. I placed the right tube and left tube next to each other then took out my very fine sharpie and rotated the left tube with the sharpie firmly placed against the right tube. I got a nice circle and then cut on the line. Both tubes are the same length now. The extra length is used to connect the CZNC-12A assemblies. I welcome constructive comments. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 G'day I managed to get into the hanger and put the skins on the elevators. I took a couple of pictures. I also made the canard wingtips. I also took a picture of the tips. I have attached the pictures. Does anybody have the target weight of the elevators? I welcome constructive comments. Thanks Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 G’day I have a question about the CZNC-12A alignment and placement of the elevators. Please look at the pictures and tell me if I have them correct. Should the notches go on the outside or inside? The picture in the plans looks like outside. If you have a picture of yours please post so I can see. Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 G’day I have a question about the alignment of the elevators. Please look at the pictures and tell me if I have them correct. If you have a picture of yours please post so I can see. Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Bejeesus yer fast! Hang on, cleaning up after floxing me elevators in the canard. Pix and text in a bit... But wait before you drill the offsets, they're not supposed to be vertical as in your pix. Rick OK, it looks like they're canted rearward 15 degrees. I base this on nothing in particular Attached pix should give you an idea, not like mine are the way they're supposed to be, or that they'll work (standard disclaimer). The elevators are held to the canard in the jigs, which sets them for 15 degrees 'down' . The offsets appear to be vertical in the pix. I set the spool piece such that the .190" hinge pin holes were at the bottom, and in alignment with the pin holes in the elevator inserts. I then wrapped a section of the torque tube with masking tape, then clamped a vice grip on it as a 'counter balance' (rest it on the table) so the torque tube didn't rotate as I was drilling the holes into the elevator spool piece. A couple of sandbags on the elevators as I drilled were part of the equation too. Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTest Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 OK, it looks like they're canted rearward 15 degrees. I base this on nothing in particular Attached pix should give you an idea, not like mine are the way they're supposed to be, or that they'll work (standard disclaimer). The elevators are held to the canard in the jigs, which sets them for 15 degrees 'down' . The offsets appear to be vertical in the pix. I set the spool piece such that the .190" hinge pin holes were at the bottom, and in alignment with the pin holes in the elevator inserts. I then wrapped a section of the torque tube with masking tape, then clamped a vice grip on it as a 'counter balance' (rest it on the table) so the torque tube didn't rotate as I was drilling the holes into the elevator spool piece. A couple of sandbags on the elevators as I drilled were part of the equation too. Rick G'day Rick Thanks for the feedback and the pics. You say 15 degrees rearward, but when I look at your elevator on the bench it looks (15 degrees) forward...? Is this an optical thing or did I have one to many tonight (wait I haven't started yet, maybe I am behind)? The plans I have don't mention or show any tilt. That is why I asked the question. These are my second set of elevators and I don't want to do a third set. Thanks again; Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 After my first gin, I can see clearer now Yes, canted forward, as they'll sit in the plane. Brain fart on my part, sorry I think the important thing is to ensure all the .190' hinge pin holes are on the same centerline. Rick ps: My elevators came in at 24.5 oz, no sanding or filler yet. Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Looking Good, been awhile so I do not know the angle they cant forward. ...Chrissi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickh Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 First off, I have a part that actually moves See attached pix. The canard is level for test purposes. I didn't put a level under the elevators at 0 degrees on the jig, I only have two hands. I think it can be inferred the NC12 bracket cants about 15 degrees though. At least for my canard/elevator unit Did I mention I now have a part that really really moves? Rick Quote Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 My-T-Fine! Glass work looks so smooth too, nice. Please get a picture from inside the tub and wherever else showing how the offsets straddle the fuselage sides. ...Chrissi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.