Main gear wheels and brakes

[mfryer]

The Long-EZ plans call for Cleveland wheels. However I recall recommendations that the brakes could use some improvement. Also it would appear that Grove offers some wheel/brake options that might work for the Long-EZ. Any suggestions?

[Big Steve]

My Longeze had the regular cleveland brakes that the plans call for. They worked pretty good. I had one time that they faded when I was going to fast and tried to make the first turn off on a 8,000 runway. Coasted to the end and they had cooled off enough they worked to taxi back. There is a kit for a heavier rotor. That is what you should look into. Acs sells them. I dont know anything about Grove. The cleavlands work if it aint broke why fix it. STeve

[chasingmars]

Alot of Cozies use Matcos, mine just arrived, looks like good workmanship. Don't see why it wouldn't work for the Long and extra energy capacity shouldn't be a bad thing.

[Kent Ashton]

The three-puck MATCOs that the Cozys are using (W51) are overkill for a Long-Ez, IMHO, although there might be a smaller brake that would work. The #199-152 Clevelands are sort of marginal for a Cozy IV but about right for a Long. The Clevelands will lock up the wheel OK but the MATCOs have more mass to absorb heat, thus greater braking capacity but I wouldn't think you'd need the same capacity in the Long. I put new MATCOs on my Cozy IV and swapped the existing Clevelands onto a Long-EZ under construction. No experience with Grove; I read they are Cleveland copies but good quality.

 

Important to change the brake fluid yearly and disassemble the caliper every two-three years and clean it thoroughly. I have had them (Clevelands on a Cozy IV) fade away completely after a long airshow taxi-in. Partly due to going too long before changing brake fluid; moisture in the fluid boils at a lower temperature. Not fun.

[Lynn Erickson]

Alot of Cozies use Matcos, mine just arrived, looks like good workmanship. Don't see why it wouldn't work for the Long and extra energy capacity shouldn't be a bad thing.

I have flown and worked on all the types and I would go Grove. they are now the hands down winner. the clevelands are a bit small. the three puck matcos are a pain to work on and have to flexable a caliper and have had lock up problems. they look good out of the box but they need several mods to work good. the flex in the caliper does not let the pads release completely and the have to much drag. several of the wheels have been machined poorly and are not concentric with the brake disc and don't stop smoothly. some wheels need to have the disc bosses trued up. matcos are by far the hardest to mount a tire and tube on without pinching the tube and they are the hardest to remove a tire. they are the worst if you get a flat, they require too many tools. the rubber seals look good but they still leak and throw grease all over the wheels and wings. when using matcos make sure you tighten the bearings the way they say to. there needs to be some preload on the bearings or the inner race will spin and wear out the axle.

[TMann]

I went with the Matco brakes for my Long-EZ.

It's not an area where I want to skimp.

There are cases where some folks went cheaper and paid the price.

[Lynn Erickson]

I went with the Matco brakes for my Long-EZ.

It's not an area where I want to skimp.

There are cases where some folks went cheaper and paid the price.

If I was to put matco on a long I would use the double caliper model they seem to have the least problems but Grove is the hand down winner. seen several sets go on longs and never a problem, they just work

[Marc Zeitlin]

I have flown and worked on all the types and I would go Grove.

For a VE or LE, or other 2-seat canard that weighs less than 1600 lb. or so MGW, I'd agree with you.

 

http://www.groveaircraft.com/braketechinfo.html

 

shows the energy capacity of the brakes, and the high capacity 5" wheels are better than the high capacity Clevelands. The Groves are certainly well made.

 

However, they're NOT sufficient for MGW ops on a COZY MKIV - the energy capacity just isn't there. The COZY archives are filled with discussions of just this issue over the past 13 years. I've run into a couple of the issues you bring up with the MATCO's, but I don't find them difficult to work on or deal with at all. They are, in the 5" wheels, the only ones that have the energy capacity required for MGW ops - aborted takeoffs, short runways, high DA ops, etc.

 

I wish Grove/Cleveland made a high energy capacity 5" brake - 330K ft-lb or better, but they don't. Even the highest capacity 6" Grove wheel/brakes aren't quite adequate for the COZY MKIV. The web page shown above has a good calculator on it for determining required energy absorption capability. If you put in my MGW (2155 lb) with a 100 mph landing speed (not unreasonable for high DA standard landings, or aborted takeoffs even at low DA's), you get a requirement for 360K ft-lb per wheel. Neither Grove nor Cleveland makes such a beast in a 5" wheel, and even MATCO is marginal at 337K ft-lb., but it's the best there is without going to 6".

[rviglierchio]

Ditto with Lynn Erickson. For my Long EZ (1050 Empty), my fat butt and full fuel the Ultra High Performance Groves work great. Even so with another fat butt in the back! Strong and no fade.

 

Marc, aren't those numbers in the Grove calculator per wheel? If not mine should only be good to 80 knots .....?

[Marc Zeitlin]

Marc, aren't those numbers in the Grove calculator per wheel? If not mine should only be good to 80 knots .....?

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

For a 1425 lb. LE, 80 kts requires 201K ft-lb./wheel. Either the series 56 or 57 are adequate for that. 80 kts should be adequate for a LE, even at relatively high DA's. Personally, I'd get the series 57's, since they're not much more $$$, and they'd cover you in a MGW LE up to 88 kts.

[rviglierchio]

Thanks Marc. I do have the -57 series. By the way, just checked ACS and the price is almost $100 LOWER than last year......very strange. Used to be $749 now $659.

And Marc, it sure is interesting to finally see the great stuff you folks are working on. Hope you'll be able to tell us more about it some day soon.

I'm looking forward to the next time Burt has the patience for another canard group visit to the 'Source' in Mojave.

[MoneySink]

I remember reading somewhere in the forum about some French made brakes that suppose to work with Cozy's. Has anyone heard of any good/bad things about them?

[Juhl-EZ]

...... some French made brakes that suppose to work with Cozy's......

That would be Beringer http://www.beringer.fr/

[Marc Zeitlin]

I remember reading somewhere in the forum about some French made brakes that suppose to work with Cozy's. Has anyone heard of any good/bad things about them?

The 5" Beringers listed above do not have the energy capacity to deal with a COZY MKIV - their website catalog makes that clear. For smaller, lighter, slower aircraft they would be fine.

 

The 6" wheels would be OK for a COZY, brake energy wise, but then you'd have 6" wheels.

 

There is one builder in France who, I'm told, is installing the 5" wheels - against recommendation - I suppose we'll eventually see just how inadequate they are.

 

To paraphrase Utah Phillips, from the last line of his story "Moose Turd Pie":

 

It's pretty, though.

[Edge 513]

Dang Marc, I miss that Moose turd pie since I mooved to this gull-durned city...Steve, do they make that in your neck of the woods? I might have to come git me some.

[Big Steve]

I dont know if anyone makes Pie out of them Edge but we ocasionally have moose running around. Which means Moose turds are around. There are lots of moose on the Eastern side of the state. Make great big huge steaks. Good eating. I stay away from the turd pie though. Steve