I pumped my first batch of epoxy today!!!!!!

[Phil Kriley]

I am not 100% sure about that, but I told the clerk at AC spruce that I wanted the H287s slow hardener. That is what I was billed for on my recipt. I will check the container lable closely when I get home and post back. I dont remember seeing the numbers H287S or H340S on the container anywhre, but it does say slow hardener. I hope I have the right stuff here, otherwise someone at AC spruce is going to get an earfull. I already have this in my pump and if it is wrong, I have to take it all apart and flush it out, not to mention drive all the way back there to return these and get the proper ones (and hope they accept the opened container given the circumstances), and loose a day of work on saturday, and pay the gas. I will be EXTREMELY pissed off if they gave me the wrong one. If the ratio is confirmable, i believe they did. I'll post back when I get home and confirm.[/quote

 

 

@&!#@!!!!!! THEY GAVE ME THE WRONG STUFF!!!!! My recipt says 01-41006 H287S but they gave me the H340!!!! Now I have a 300mi round trip and a lost day of work to look forward to. The problem is I looked right at the container and read off the ratios, but didn't look right above the ratio to see the H340 starring me in the face. I'm glad I only opened on can. But now the OTHER problem is my pump. What the heck am I supposed to do to flush the pump out so my PROPER hardener is not contaminated? I'm not off to a good start here.

That stinks. I got a roll of BID that was marked as UNI and had to make repairs to the plane because I didn't check the material - I trusted them to label it right. My bad.

 

Did you make any epoxy using the 285 resin and the 335 hardener? I think you were just making the "practice" layup, so no harm to your plane if that's the case. Once you get the right stuff in your pump, you'll be off to the races.

 

Look at the bright side - you learned a lot and did not hurt your project!

[Neverquit]

You can look up a post I had here about a year ago (or less) that the same thing happened to me. I took photos and emailed them to ACS. I called first to really chew them out but the operatoe was polite. She directed me to her supervisor. Her supervisor immediately sent the right stuff and told me to throw out the wrong stuff. I wouldn't worry, they'll work with ya'.

 

I got two cans, tilted the pump to pour the resin and hardner into them. Then wiped out the hardner side as well as I could. I cleaned and then filled the hardner container with acetone. Pumped the acetone through the tube until I was confident it was clean. Later I pumped the correct hardner through it then all was well.

[rickh]

ah come on.

You know you held up the IP and stuck your feet threw it. We all did.

Nope.

Didn't wanna spoil my Ch 7 "First Flight" experience.

My runway is only 14'x35', and the sofa gets in the way.

Waiting for VFR in the mountains.

...

[killerb1971]

You can look up a post I had here about a year ago (or less) that the same thing happened to me. I took photos and emailed them to ACS. I called first to really chew them out but the operatoe was polite. She directed me to her supervisor. Her supervisor immediately sent the right stuff and told me to throw out the wrong stuff. I wouldn't worry, they'll work with ya'.

 

I got two cans, tilted the pump to pour the resin and hardner into them. Then wiped out the hardner side as well as I could. I cleaned and then filled the hardner container with acetone. Pumped the acetone through the tube until I was confident it was clean. Later I pumped the correct hardner through it then all was well.[/quote

 

OK! I got off the phone with Tim at AC Spruce in GA. He was very friendly and helpful. He had no problem taking the return, but the only problem was he had to have me take it back in person because of the haz mat shipping. I have no problem with that. It costs $20 round trip in my Geo Metro. He went back into the stockroom and grabbed the PROPER hardener and is holding it for me at the counter till friday morning when I can make it back over there. This time I will get 4 slow and 4 fast quarts so I have enough to last a while. Now I know I have to check everything BEFORE I use them! Lesson learned!! He also realized why I got the wrong stuff. It was put on the wrong shelf. The girl that picked the order didnt double check the can lable and went by the shelf lable only. It happens......I just hate when it happens to me.

 

Well......Back to the drawing board!

[Kraig]

This time I will get 4 slow and 4 fast quarts so I have enough to last a while.

I would get 6 slow and 2 fast. I use the vast majority of slow, especially in the beginning when I was learning how to do the layups. Even now actually. I only use fast for tapes and small, managable layups. Thru chapter 14, (skipping 13), I still have some of my second can of fast.

 

Kraig

[chasingmars]

@&!#@!!!!!! THEY GAVE ME THE WRONG STUFF!!!!! My recipt says 01-41006 H287S but they gave me the H340!!!! Now I have a 300mi round trip and a lost day of work to look forward to. The problem is I looked right at the container and read off the ratios, but didn't look right above the ratio to see the H340 starring me in the face. I'm glad I only opened on can. But now the OTHER problem is my pump. What the heck am I supposed to do to flush the pump out so my PROPER hardener is not contaminated? I'm not off to a good start here.

If you haven't taken it back yet... consider this:

 

If you have the correct resin for the hardener you do have, then it might be more worthshile to just use the 335. Even for the whole project. (If they gave you L285 and H340, chuck out anything you made with it even if it looks to have cured, they aren't compatible).

 

Reason being that they are both excellent resins, and although the 285 does have somewhat higher performance, it requires post-curing to actually tap the potential of that performance. the 335 is significantly cheaper, and that price difference is likely to become more significant... price increased about 50% between my first and second batch buy.

 

That way you don't need to clean you pump, or anything, just get them to credit your account for the difference and bash on. Even though I am a 285 user, the extra performance of that resin system is essentially academic.

 

Glad I helped you figure out what the issue was though, I suspected the moment I saw the pic of green resin.

[killerb1971]

(If they gave you L285 and H340, chuck out anything you made with it even if it looks to have cured, they aren't compatible).

 

 

 

 

Glad I helped you figure out what the issue was though, I suspected the moment I saw the pic of green resin.

 

 

I already had the L285 resin. I ordered the hardener at the same time as the resin, but that is when I had the rude awakening about the haz mat shipping. So I decided to just drive to Spruce and pick it up. $20 round trip in my Metro! : ) Too bad I can't fit anything big in it to really save on shipping. Anyways It was only my practice layup that this happend on THANK GOD. It still cured, but it is just used as a lesson on how to apply epoxy and learn to wet out properly. It turned out nice though. I marked the location of the manifold block for the hardener pump, and removed the assembly, dumped out the hardener and completly pump flushed it with 3/4 gal of acitone. I wiped it all down and its dry as a bone and clean as can be. Then I put it all back together and Im ready to recalibrate with the RIGHT stuff this time. I am VERY greatful that you pointed that out to me. I might not have caught it and started to build bulkheads with it. That would have been a nightmare!! Speaking of bulkheads, I just got my email today from Spruce that my Ch4 and Ch5 kits shipped today!!!! WOOOHOOOOO!!!!!! I'm getting more fired up by the day. My shop is too. Its up to 80 degrees in my garage now!

[killerb1971]

I would get 6 slow and 2 fast. I use the vast majority of slow, especially in the beginning when I was learning how to do the layups. Even now actually. I only use fast for tapes and small, managable layups. Thru chapter 14, (skipping 13), I still have some of my second can of fast.

 

Kraig

 

My friend Gene recomended mostly slow as well. I might get one or two fast, and the rest slow. How much resin should I have on hand thru ch7 aproximately? I figured on 2-3 gal. Does that sound right?

[chasingmars]

My friend Gene recomended mostly slow as well. I might get one or two fast, and the rest slow. How much resin should I have on hand thru ch7 aproximately? I figured on 2-3 gal. Does that sound right?

I'm in chapter seven now, I've used a little over a 6 gal kit to date. Haven't done the outside skinning yet, but I did make two seatbacks, two Instrument panels and two fuse bottoms, so ymmv.

[Phil Kriley]

Look at chapter 2 of the plans - the materials for each chapter are listed, including how much epoxy you need.

[killerb1971]

Chapter 4 and 5 arrived this afternoon!!!!!!! It was VERY well packaged. I will be running to Spruce tomorrow morning to get the hardener and maybe some other stuff.

[killerb1971]

Look at chapter 2 of the plans - the materials for each chapter are listed, including how much epoxy you need.

 

Not a bad point! I completely forgot about the materials list. : )

[chasingmars]

Not a bad point! I completely forgot about the materials list. : )

Unopened, the stuff keeps quite well, there should be an expiry date on the packaging, but I'm told (you make your own decision) that it's very conservative. So if you can get a discount buying in volume, or if there's a long drive to get more, it's worth getting in in some degree of bulk. I buy mine in six gal kits, usually about 1/4 Fast.

[longezdave]

Agreeing with you here Craig. This is a post from the [c-a] list -

 

FYI - We had the North American distributor for MGS epoxy at the Cozy dinner

this past Saturday at Oshkosh. We all grilled him with a bunch of questions.

 

I'd like to pass on his answer to my question - "Is there really a shelf

life/expiration date on the epoxy?"

 

His answer was basically - "No". As long as the resin/hardener has been

properly sealed the stuff will be just fine.

 

I thought this would be useful to all the MGS users out there. I know Gary

Hunter has pretty much said the same thing but it is reassuring to hear it

direct from the MGS distributor - who also happens to be working on his

seventh homebuilt!

[killerb1971]

Agreeing with you here Craig. This is a post from the [c-a] list -

 

FYI - We had the North American distributor for MGS epoxy at the Cozy dinner

this past Saturday at Oshkosh. We all grilled him with a bunch of questions.

 

I'd like to pass on his answer to my question - "Is there really a shelf

life/expiration date on the epoxy?"

 

His answer was basically - "No". As long as the resin/hardener has been

properly sealed the stuff will be just fine.

 

I thought this would be useful to all the MGS users out there. I know Gary

Hunter has pretty much said the same thing but it is reassuring to hear it

direct from the MGS distributor - who also happens to be working on his

seventh homebuilt!

 

That is great information to know. I'd feel alot more comfortable about buying in bulk knowing that. Thanks for the tip!!!!

 

7 homebuits!? Geeze most people spend their lives building just one! : ) I wish I had that kind of time and money....I'd probably build a few myself. One day I'll win that lottery and..............

[John D. Wages]

7 homebuits!? Geeze most people spend their lives building just one! : )

He never said if he had actually FINISHED any of them!

[Phil Kriley]

Not a bad point! I completely forgot about the materials list. : )

Take the time to check every item shipped in your kits to the materials list in Chapter 2. The sooner you find any mistakes, the better. You don't want to be in the middle of a work session only to find out that you have the wrong screw or not enough of the right type of foam or some part is missing or backordered or whatever.

 

It's also a good idea to have more fiberglass cloth and resin/hardener on hand than you need, so that if you make a mistake you won't have to lose a building session because you are out of something.

 

I'm starting to gather an assortment of things like AN bolts, screws,washers and nuts and nutplates, so that I have extras on hand. They are not expensive. Sometimes the bolt or screw lengths called for in the plans may be a little short, and it's a PITA to have to order ONE screw. When I was putting on the canopy hinges I needed a couple of screws longer than what had been shipped.

[Neverquit]

Have to agree with Phil here. Whenever I make an order I always check the list for hardware and buy extras a little longer as well. They're dirt cheap and next to nothing if they're going along for the ride with your epoxy. If you have to order only hardware because you're missing one bolt of it's too short you're going to get hit with a shipping charge that costs more than the materials.

 

Look at chapter 2 of the plans - the materials for each chapter are listed, including how much epoxy you need.

 

Buy an extra gallon and keep it on hand. Take it from experience it really sucks running out of epoxy in the middle of a layup after that gallon you thought you had in the basement is missing.

[killerb1971]

I just came back from ACS with my CORRECT hardener. I bought 8qts of 287s. Tim was VERY helpful and appologised repeatedly for the mistake and inconvenience. I will inventory all the parts of my chapter kits 4 and 5 this weekend. I'm going to buy more resin next month. My budget for Jan is SHOT! Its a very good point about buying extra hardware and in various sizes just in case. I have read in several archives about people getting hardware per plans and it ends up not actually fitting correctly. I'll be on the lookout for that as well.

[Lynn Erickson]

I just came back from ACS with my CORRECT hardener. I bought 8qts of 287s. Tim was VERY helpful and appologised repeatedly for the mistake and inconvenience. I will inventory all the parts of my chapter kits 4 and 5 this weekend. I'm going to buy more resin next month. My budget for Jan is SHOT! Its a very good point about buying extra hardware and in various sizes just in case. I have read in several archives about people getting hardware per plans and it ends up not actually fitting correctly. I'll be on the lookout for that as well.

By the time you are done building ( O, I forgot you are never done building an experimental ) you will have enough extra hardware to build two more airplanes but it won't fit on anything you are building.

[Jack Morrison]

Thats funny Lynn, but oh so true. It goes on and on and on. Have a hanger full of crap that did not work.

 

Jack

E Racer 113

[Kraig]

Thats funny Lynn, but oh so true. It goes on and on and on. Have a hanger full of crap that did not work.

 

Jack

E Racer 113

It sure is a good feeling to look into your "extras" area and finding the exact size of screw you just happen to need, is'nt it!

 

I got a whole bunch of hardware from when I bought out a builder who had stuff thru ch. 14, (and some of 19). Sure is nice to have a bunch of extra washers, etc.

 

Kraig

[killerb1971]

Look at chapter 2 of the plans - the materials for each chapter are listed, including how much epoxy you need.

One quick question about the materials list. The list calls for 5 gal of epoxy for ch4-ch7. Do they mean total volume including hardener, or just resin content? From what other people have been saying it sounds like resin content only. I have just the one gal of resin right now for the practice stuff, but I just went to ACS and picked up 8qts of H287S hardener yesterday. I'll be ordering more resin in Feb when I am truly ready to start chapter 4.

[rickh]

One quick question about the materials list. The list calls for 5 gal of epoxy for ch4-ch7. Do they mean total volume including hardener, or just resin content?

Generally resin. If you'll need 3/4 gallon for a chapter, the destructions will say purchase 1 gallon.

 

I'm about ready to flip the tub and make the bottom, tapped into my third gallon of Pro-Set resin yesterday (100:30 ratio). Not sure if that's good/bad, but there's not much in the cups (epoxy, flox, slurry) when I'm done for the day.

 

You can figure resin needed by calculating the weight of the cloth. Assuming the ever popular 50:50 resin:glass ratio. Add a bit for the slurry mix on the foam too, this isn't a trivial amount as I anticipated it would be.

 

Rick