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Planning my Project


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Greetings,

 

Just an introduction, some remarks, and a couple of questions. I have been planning to build a Cozy MkIV for about 1 year now but am holding off for a little while. Here are my reasons for holding off and how I plan to proceed. If any of you builders care to comment on my plan I'd really appreciate it.

 

1. I really want to build my own airplane but would like to give my son the opportunity to participate in the project too. He's three right now so maybe he's a little young to start doing lay-ups (and, I know, he may not be interested in this sort of thing later). Ideally, I'd like to complete the project before he finishes high school, so I've got some time to play with here...

 

2. I'm not an engineer, builder, electrician, machinist, or an A&P. I'm a professor of Old Testament. I'm handy around the house and have a basic mechanical aptitude, but I'm no Cozy Girrrl.

 

3. I'm a relatively low-time pilot (180 hours) and figure that I need to keep flying in the mean time.

 

4. I've got an upcoming Iraq deployment in the Fall.

 

Given these three realities, here's my plan. 1) Keep flying, 2) Join forums like these and read regularly 3) Join EAA participate in the local chapter and take a few sport air workshops 4) find a local builder and see if he or she would let me sweep the shop and maybe learn some skills on the side. 5) in a couple of years...start building.

 

I figure my learning curve is going to be pretty steep given my background but I want to stack the deck for success as much as possible. Any thoughts?

 

Best Regards,

Nathan Solomon

Alexandria, VA

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When I started my project I thought it would be fun for my son to work on it with me. Unfortunately it is a little difficult to teach him while I am still learning so much of the process myself. Still I have him sanding some parts, measuring twice and he has made a couple of console panel prototypes. He really likes to help when I am not up to my elbows in epoxy.

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Unfortunately it is a little difficult to teach him while I am still learning so much of the process myself.

I think that'd be likely with me too so I'm hoping to both 1) learn a little before beginning and 2) cut my teeth on the early chapters while he's still too young to directly help.

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

Nathan

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It seems to me that there is a fair number of templates and jigs that you'll want... I wonder if its worthwhile buying the plans now, and working on all those jigs well in advance... I won't keep you busy for a year, but a few months at least...

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It seems to me that there is a fair number of templates and jigs that you'll want... I wonder if its worthwhile buying the plans now, and working on all those jigs well in advance... I won't keep you busy for a year, but a few months at least...

I don't know the New from the Old testament, but do know which end of a screwdriver to pound on, and can pour pee out of a boot even if there are no instructions on the heel (I looked!).

 

I sat on my Cozy plans for almost a year before I mixed my first cup of epoxy, finances partially, I like to ride motorcycles too. During those 11 months, I poured over the plans to the point some (all?) of the pages are dog eared. I also made a few jigs. Rough cut the turtleback rectangle blanks, the wing jig rectangle blanks, and more recently the FJx jigs. I also made a production jig to make the canard "K" templates in quantity, as well as the canard incidence and elevator angle check template. All will occupy some spare time, and can be stored under the guest bed if needed, until needed :rolleyes:

 

You might also find tracing the templates onto drafting velum (Clearprint) an enjoyable time waster, and this will avoid cutting up the plans or extra "M" drawings you buy. I recommend the latter, if only to place the finished part on to check contour.

 

You'll also want to go to Rough River or the Canard fly-in in California at least once. Both are total canard immersion, total.

 

If you're frugal (I am), any slack time can be used to purchase materials and supplies at a discount. I scored big on my BID, and I mean big. Doubt I'd have had the time to pound the pavement if I was building.

 

Other than not getting a jump start in my build, I think the 11 month wait wasn't lost. Buy the plans ;)

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
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I don't know the New from the Old testament, but do know which end of a screwdriver to pound on, and can pour pee out of a boot even if there are no instructions on the heel (I looked!).

 

That's funny... :ROTFLMAO: I think I just found my new signature...

Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)

---

www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:

---

Brace for impact...

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I sat on my Cozy plans for almost a year before I mixed my first cup of epoxy, finances partially, I like to ride motorcycles too. During those 11 months, I poured over the plans to the point some (all?) of the pages are dog eared. I also made a few jigs. Rough cut the turtleback rectangle blanks, the wing jig rectangle blanks, and more recently the FJx jigs. I also made a production jig to make the canard "K" templates in quantity, as well as the canard incidence and elevator angle check template. All will occupy some spare time, and can be stored under the guest bed if needed, until needed :rolleyes:

 

You might also find tracing the templates onto drafting velum (Clearprint) an enjoyable time waster, and this will avoid cutting up the plans or extra "M" drawings you buy. I recommend the latter, if only to place the finished part on to check contour.

 

You'll also want to go to Rough River or the Canard fly-in in California at least once. Both are total canard immersion, total.

 

If you're frugal (I am), any slack time can be used to purchase materials and supplies at a discount. I scored big on my BID, and I mean big. Doubt I'd have had the time to pound the pavement if I was building.

 

Other than not getting a jump start in my build, I think the 11 month wait wasn't lost. Buy the plans ;)

rickh,

 

Those sound like excellent ideas. Sounds like you set your self up well while not actually building. I also like the idea of looking for materiel over the next couple as well. I'd thought all along that I'd start searching for a mid-time engine early but it would really make sense to start buying good deals in bulk now.

 

As for Rough-River (I'm an east coaster) I'll definitely put it on my calendar. Perhaps someone with an empty seat going will let me buy their gas. If not I could probably load our flying club 172s with a couple of other builders and make the trip...

 

As far as another general question goes, what do you wish you had known before you started building?

 

Thanks,

Nathan

 

P.S. The Old Testament comes before the new, that's how to tell the difference! ;)

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Buy the plans. Build the bulkheads and seat backs. That's a fairly inexpensive approach and you can gain a lot of experience that way. It's a way to get started without REALLY gettinng started. :D Besides, bulkheads don't take up much room and you can make them in the nice warm basement.

 

Anyway that will get you some experience with the materials as well as some feedback as to what you are getting into.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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rickh,

 

Those sound like excellent ideas. Sounds like you set your self up well while not actually building. I also like the idea of looking for materiel over the next couple as well. I'd thought all along that I'd start searching for a mid-time engine early but it would really make sense to start buying good deals in bulk now.

I think most people start looking about a year out. You might decide on a Mistral :o , Innodyne :o , rotary, ... Not to mention funds will be tied up in an engine sitting on the lift, taking up space, ... My thoughts anyway. I'll be going with the opposed four. Not sure if I'll use a 320 or 360 for the test phase, then shoe-horning in a new 360; or buying new, or buying a low time 360. I'll cross that bridge when...

 

You'll need a lot of sniggly bits, gloves, scissors, build table, ... Buy it on sale if you can.

There's a lot of websites out there too, a ton of info. Retracts, elec speed brake, FHC, Cozy Girrrls Strakes, ... You'll need to decide on some (or none) before the build, and how (if at all) it'll affect your build.

 

As for Rough-River (I'm an east coaster) I'll definitely put it on my calendar.

 

I went the first time a year and a half ago, highly recommended! RR is what keeps me motivated (among other things). Being able to compare a modification side/side is nice, and everyone talks canards. Nice group of people too :)

 

As far as another general question goes, what do you wish you had known before you started building?

 

Interesting. Umm, maybe the size. My cloth rolling table is the guest bedroom floor, I don't know how people use a 4' table extension to cut cloth. Some of the layups use long cuts from the roll. And most recently (yesterday!) how big the tub skeleton really is. I glued up the bulkheads to the sides last night. Now both the build table and fuse are taking up floor space.

 

Right answer, or were you looking for somethign different?

 

P.S. The Old Testament comes before the new, that's how to tell the difference! ;)

I was pretty sure, thanks for the confirm ;)

 

Rick

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
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I'll be going with the opposed four. Not sure if I'll use a 320 or 360 for the test phase, then shoe-horning in a new 360; or buying new, or buying a low time 360. I'll cross that bridge when...

 

 

 

Rick

I would go for the cubes. maybe with a carb if its a money thing. the 320's are OK for a cozy and just to small for a cozy IV. the 320 cost very close to the 360 and the 360 is easier to maintain, they seem to last longer between top overhaul, they don't have to work as hard. the last thing you will want to do is change engines after the test flight phase. there is a lot more work to the engine install then people realize. and if you change engines it is like a new install all over again. during the test phase the one thing you can count on is the airframe, built to the plains, it will fly fine. the things you are really testing are the support systems, engine, avionics, brakes and the pilot. how many cozys do you see not meeting all the flight test data of all the other cozys. they all fly the same, it is the other systems that make them fly a little different

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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What about the SportAir workshops? What are your experiences with them? They seems pretty reasonable cost-wise but I'd have to travel to make one. Also, it seems Aircraft Spruce is the firm everyone deals with. Are they good? Do you have any options? (For the record, AS is on the way between my house and my in-laws; so at least I could save on shipping).

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It is time for me to chime in here. I think that buying a motor to early in the game is a waste of time money and a good motor. It will sit around for at least 5 years not getting run. It will get foam dust fiberglass dust and maybe even epoxy all over it. I know you can cover it up but motors dont like to sit around and not run. Plus the $5,000-30,000 dollars you tie up in a motor sitting could build you a whole lot of airframe.

I also am thinking a 0320 160 hp. version If you use the plane as a 2 seater with a big trunk and keep it light it would work fine. If you put bells whistles and 2 kitchen sinks in the plane you might have to have a 0360. I would love an 0360 but they cost more and burn more gas. If I find one in my price range I will put one in. If Not I will put in an 0320 and make sure I keep it light. While on the airplane subject install your canard before you put the ng-30's on. I am not having fun leaning over my nose stuff while I install the canard. STeve

Steve Harmon

Lovin Life in Idaho

Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ

http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/

Working on Chapter 19,21

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It is time for me to chime in here. I think that buying a motor to early in the game is a waste of time money and a good motor. It will sit around for at least 5 years not getting run. It will get foam dust fiberglass dust and maybe even epoxy all over it. I know you can cover it up but motors dont like to sit around and not run. Plus the $5,000-30,000 dollars you tie up in a motor sitting could build you a whole lot of airframe.

 

Big Steve,

 

That sounds like well-reasoned advice. Unless I get can't refuse opportunity, I'll wait on the engine.

 

Nathan

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It is time for me to chime in here. I think that buying a motor to early in the game is a waste of time money and a good motor. It will sit around for at least 5 years not getting run. It will get foam dust fiberglass dust and maybe even epoxy all over it. I know you can cover it up but motors dont like to sit around and not run. Plus the $5,000-30,000 dollars you tie up in a motor sitting could build you a whole lot of airframe.

 

Big Steve,

 

That sounds like well-reasoned advice. Unless I get a can't-refuse opportunity, I'll wait on the engine.

 

Nathan

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Nathan,

 

I got the plans (for Valentines from my wife!!) while I was still at University, thus I didnt have the funds to commit to building.

 

It was 3 years until I could start mixing epoxy. In that time I build a great workbench, made all the jigs, and made all the little brackets, aluminium hardpoints etc...

 

I also got to read the plans over and over and over and over (and everything else I could find CSA newsletters etc..), almost to the point where I knew how to build without actually building!!

 

You are also lucky in the US that you can find someone who is not too far away that would love some company building - a great way to get some experience, by the time you start you wont make all the newbie mistakes and will have the base composite skillset.

 

What Im trying to say is that there is so much to learn, and so many jigs and hardware bits to make to keep you busy for a while (at least a year).

 

Id say, if you heart is set on a Cozy, buy the plans and make a start.. It seems that the only thing Cozy builders all say is that they wished they started earlier - I wish I had.

 

Hope that helps.

Andrew Winkworth

Cozy MKIV #937

Brisbane Australia

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I would go for the cubes. maybe with a carb if its a money thing.

It's an airplane, money is always a factor ;)

 

Ya ya, I know, HP is king. Add in I'll probably be based out of KLMO (5200' elev.), and Rick Maddy was planning on an XP-400 for his Cozy; a 320 would a bit light. There's a bunch of 320's out there though. FWIW, an IO-360 is on my short list.

 

how many cozys do you see not meeting all the flight test data of all the other cozys.

Eiselstein I think, Chris maybe? :envy:

 

Rick

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
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What about the SportAir workshops?

Knowledge is power :)

I've somewhat of an advantage (pee -> boot), but can see how the workshops would be beneficial if you've never worked w/ epoxy/glass. For me, attending RR, seeing other builds, and completing the first chapter/two put me up there with [most of] the best. Composites aren't that hard, but do require a new skill set.

Also, it seems Aircraft Spruce is the firm everyone deals with. Are they good?

Gotta buy your [cozy] plans somewhere ;)

I'm equidistant from Wicks and ACS, have purchased exclusively from Wicks. Prices for what I ordered were basically lower than ACS. One minor flock-up in my first order, they made it right the next one. Smaller company, I find them 'pleasurable' to work with.

 

ACS has a price match, but I ain't gonna price-shop for 100 different widgets and do-dads. Not to imply they won't see my business.

 

YMMV :)

 

Rick

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
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We just purchased Aerocanard plans in December. We purchased the Cozy Girrl tools from Wicks prior to the plans. The Invoice for the tools was more than the listed price on their website but they took care of it with no problem. I found Wicks very good to work with although I have been camparing prices lately and Aircraft Spruce seems to be cheaper. Wicks is just over two hours drive from me so I hope to deal with them but it might depend on their prices. I just did an online comparison:

BID Wicks.......$7.40 UNI Wicks.........$6.87

AS...........$5.90 AS.............$6.80

 

The chapter kits also appear to be quite a bit cheaper at AS although I think Wicks just did a price update.

Hope to make our first order for materials in april. ( I promised myself that I would not start building until I have at least two current/older projects done):mad:

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  • 2 months later...

New guy here. Plans are in the mail. Budgeting capital and cash flow. I'm sure you know the drill...

 

I've compared the ACS prices for Section Kits vs. Chapter Kits, and there's about 10% savings ($1100) with Section Kits -- probably due to volume ordering, fewer cut charges, etc.

 

Is the choice of buying Chapter Kits or Section Kits all about how much you can spend at a time? Are the ACS kits accurate? Anybody buy the Section Kits? Anybody total the costs for flying hardware that's not in the kits (Canopy $350-425, Engine $7000(!)-$34000, what else?)?

 

Hicks' site was my favorite so far.

 

Y'all sound like good people. I especially like the mantra:

 

'Must...build...airplane'

'Must...build...airplane'

'Must...build...airplane'

'Must...not...look...at...avionics'

'Must...not...look...at...avionics'

 

Whatta hoot!

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Is the choice of buying Chapter Kits or Section Kits all about how much you can spend at a time?

It's kinda $$ for me. I'd planned on getting the fuse done by Spring (succeeded), so I sorta ordered only what was needed for that... mostly. If a chapter called for two screws, but the plane needs 10, I ordered 10. I've enough foam sitting around to do the main spar (next project), and strake skins. The latter was bad planning, but the foam doesn't take up much space, and I saved a bit on shipping by ordering all the sheet goods.

 

I ordered enough glass (whole rolls) and epoxy so I wouldn't be stuck if I ran long on a chapter.

'Must...build...airplane'

'Must...not...look...at...avionics'

 

It's true! ;) I'd drooled over BMA, would have to have enlarged my IP to fit their EFIS-1. Now BMA makes a slightly smaller one that should fit the plans IP. And Dynon just announced an interfaced autopilot for their unit at a very reasonable price. I'll wait, technology changes...

 

And someone told me so :D

 

Rick

Rick Hall; MK-IV plans #1477; cozy.zggtr.org

Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.
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