purchasing partially completed plane

[irishmuse]

I am confused about the consequences of purchasing a partially built plane instead of starting from scratch. I have purchased the plans (No.1511) and plan to start from scratch but I saw say someone suggest that lot of planes never get completed and recommending to buy one of these to complete

 

How does the FAA regard the completed plane with respect to the 51% rule? Is there a % complete or in the case of the Cozy Mark IV, a particular chapter, where after that point it becomes an issue?

 

Buying something partially completed to save time sounds attractive, but I don't want to get an ugly surprise later! I have been unable to find anything that really speaks directly to this.

[Waiter]

The 51% rule applies when licensing the aircraft in the "Amateur Built" class. What they are interested in; was the airplane built in a factory, OR, by individuals who were doing it "for educational value".

 

Purchasing a partially completed plane is an excellent way to jump start a project, AND. save money on buying new components.

 

If you buy the partial, get photos, building logs, etc. that prove the individual built the plane, and wasn't built by a job shop. This will support you when applying for an Amateur Built Experimental class certification

 

Waiter

[argoldman]

The 51% rule applies when licensing the aircraft in the "Amateur Built" class. What they are interested in; was the airplane built in a factory, OR, by individuals who were doing it "for educational value".

 

Purchasing a partially completed plane is an excellent way to jump start a project, AND. save money on buying new components.

 

If you buy the partial, get photos, building logs, etc. that prove the individual built the plane, and wasn't built by a job shop. This will support you when applying for an Amateur Built Experimental class certification

 

Waiter

As mentioned above the person that constructs the airplane is not the important thing. The important thing is that it is manufactured by an" amateur" builder.

 

One problem that you may have, however, is getting the repair man certificate for the aircraft. One thing I would do to make this easier is document through photos, your ability to perform each type of task. It's not so much that you construct the wing or the fuselage or the canard but that you know how to do it and are able to convince the FAA powers that be that you have the skills to inspect. with home belts, there is no requirement for any kind of training skill and expertise, etc. To work on or even reconstruct an aircraft certified experimental. However one needs either in A and P.or a repairman certificate to do the conditional inspection.

[Kent Ashton]

I think most folks will agree that when you buy a partially-completed project you get the builder's work for free, so they are a very good deal--if you finish it. You'll have no problem licensing the airplane (the rule only requires that SOMEONE built the airplane for education and recreation--not necessarily YOU). Also, if you document your remaining work on finishing a project like this one, you'll probably easily get the repairman's ticket.

http://tinyurl.com/2qyohd

 

You live in Spartenburg? I have a Long-EZ canopy I will give you. Get going!

-Kent

Concord, NC

[irishmuse]

Thanks folks.

 

I think the repairman issue is a big one. It certainly will effect the cost of flying after completion. Not having owned a plane (always rented) how expensive does all the A&P stuff of normal flying become?

 

Thanks!

Mark

[irishmuse]

Hi Kent,

 

Yes I am Spartanburg, have been stalling (pardon the pun) getting started waiting on a hangar at Spartanburg Memorial. I am thinking I might get started earlier, but moving the shop later might be a hassle too.

 

I was also thinking there should be a builder's group here or Greenville to get into. I joined EAA and was thinking that would provide a connection.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Mark Boyles

[Marc Zeitlin]

I think the repairman issue is a big one.

Not really. You've gotten some good advice and info here. The ONLY thing the RC lets you do that you can't already do without one is sign off the yearly CONDITION (not "conditional") inspection (this is the exp. am-built equivalent of an annual on a certificated aircraft). As Kent said, you'll probably get the RC, but even if you didn't, you'd only need a friendly A&P to sign off your inspection, and many will let you do all the work while they "supervise".

 

It certainly will effect the cost of flying after completion.

Nope. See above. If you needed the A&P for 5 hours to help with the condition inspection, it would be a lot. In the context of owning a plane, that's mouse nuts.

 

Not having owned a plane (always rented) how expensive does all the A&P stuff of normal flying become?

For an experimental, not much. The only thing I need an A&P or approved instrument shop for (and I DO have the RC for my aircraft) is the 24 month IFR inspections (even an A&P can't do those) or the occasional engine work that I don't have the time or inclination for.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Any suggestions?

If you are going to be building a COZY, you should join the COZY mailing list. See:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/

 

for instructions on how to join.

[argoldman]

If you are going to be building a COZY, you should join the COZY mailing list. See:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/mail_list/

 

for instructions on how to join.

 

Marc,

 

That's really a self serving plug for the site.

 

So let me say it!!!

 

You shouldn't join the site, IT IS MANDATORY

[Kent Ashton]

I was also thinking there should be a builder's group here or Greenville to get into. I joined EAA and was thinking that would provide a connection.

 

There's an EAA Chapter in Greenville. Find the info at EAA.ORG. I don't know of any canard owners or builders close nearby you but there will be others building something interesting.

 

I find that building and owning is more expensive than renting but if I had to rent I probably wouldn't fly much. Owning an airplane isn't much worse than buying and maintaining a new car.

 

email me directly if I can help you get started. kjashton@vnet.net

-Kent

Cozy IV N13AM

[Marc Zeitlin]

That's really a self serving plug for the site.

If I were charging for membership, I'd agree with you.

 

So let me say it!!!

 

You shouldn't join the site, IT IS MANDATORY

I know that you're pulling my leg, but for the sake of newbies, nothing is mandatory - there is no mechanism for enforcement, and no-one to enforce anything anyway.

 

I think what Rich is trying to say is that it's important for you to avail yourself of the best possible sources of information when building something that can kill you. The COZY mailing list has the largest and most knowledgeable COZY flyer/builder user base of any of the email/web based information sources, so it's irresponsible for a COZY builder not to use this resource (although, IIRC, Rich, you're not a member - your email address fell off a while back... :-) ).

 

It should also be "mandatory" to get the CSA newsletter (a paper publication), as it is also filled with many safety related articles, written by extremely knowledgeable canard folks.

[Big Steve]

that's mouse nuts.

 

Marc: That must be pretty small?

[irishmuse]

Thanks for the "self serving plug" and all the responses to it! I followed the advise (mandatory or not!).