Rob's new project

[Bearair]

Plans #528 is ours along with a laundry list of parts and a fuselage through Chapter 7. It's all in our hangar for now and will be moved to the shop as parts are needed. I'm reading through the plans over the next couple weeks while I digest just how much I've bitten off. There's a lot of parts to look through and a lot of reading to do. I'll consider myself a builder when I'm actually building:D

 

Right now I've got a really interesting conversation piece in the hangar...

 

Got the unpacking done this afternoon. Semi-organized everything and went through all the parts bins to make sure all the steel stuff had a touch of Corrosion-X on it. Don't want anything rusting while I'm building. From the intitial look through, I'd say that I won't need a lot more stuff just to build the fuselage. I don't have a centering caster for the nose wheel, but have all the other gear parts. Looks like I need some glass, some micro, some tools and a few other little things to get going. Probably put together an order for next month. I'm planning on studying everything closely in the meantime.

[macleodm3]

Thats Great!! Give the tub you bought a good "review", turn on the heat, and continue the build.

[John D. Wages]

It sounds like you've got 2nd Edition plans. Make sure you check the archives and all the newsletter updates. The one that jumps out at me is that the 2nd Edition plans has you locating the F-28 bulkhead at 5.9 inches aft of F-22. People were having clearance problems and it was decided to move the F-28 bulkhead to 6.25 inches aft of F-22. That was the first thing I found wrong with the project I bought. I posted a question on another forum about whether to move it or not. Marc Zeitlin said "MOVE IT", so I did, although it did require me to build a new F-28 bulkhead. I'm glad I took Marc's advice. Congratulations on the new project and looking forward to seeing your progress.

[Bearair]

Yeah, the plans are second edition, but I've got the Cozy newsletters up to number 91 Oct 2005. The previous builder added all the corrections and additions to the narrative and the drawings in the plans. I'll doublecheck that bulkhead though. Thanks!

[Bearair]

Got out to the hangar today and verified that the F28 is 6.25 aft of F22. Also, it's through chapter 6 (not 7) and several other parts from later chapters have been completed. The previous builder noted any changes from the newsletters in the original plans so there are annotations and dimension changes written in at the correct places.

 

We cleaned up the tarps and pads that we left hanging to dry out, moved the fuselage onto a pair of steel saw horses (new folding kind, kinda neat) and put other parts away. Picked up a set of electric scissors for cutting glass also. Next weekend I'm planning on getting a heater for the shop and then making a plan for the lighting. There are only two fixtures in the shop right now, and I NEED MORE LIGHT. Depending on money next month, I'm going to try to get the order in for some glass, flox, micro and mixing stuff. I've still got two good gallons of MGS 335 that I can use. I've got a couple bottles of two part foam to complete the levelling off of the rear area of the fuselage next to the NACA duct also. The previous builder did part of it, but not all. Since I've got the stuff, I think I'll give it a go shortly. All I need is a good long board to shape it.

[WolfManSpecial]

sound like you have all by the hand,great,...can put fotos of the process'''...

[Bearair]

Went out to the hangar this afternoon before dinner and took pictures. There's a couple that didn't come out, but most of them did. Needed to log it all into Kitlog so I can start keeping records of the whole process.

 

Going to try posting a couple pics to see if it works for me.

 

The first 4 are the tub. The last is the turtleback (Featherlite)

[Bearair]

More pictures.

 

#1 is all the extra forms and guides. I got EVERYTHING that the previous owner had used to build with except his tools. I've also got an extra seat back, extra bulkheads, longerons, etc. The previous owner had another person building with him with another set of plans. They were building two of everything, and the other builder bailed after about 6 months.

#2 is just some of the templates I have. They are on formica and look like they'll work well. Some were used for making the metal parts.

#3 is the Featherlite cowlings.

#4 is the leading edge box (Featherlite). I only pulled off the top to look in. They've never been unpacked.

#5 is the rudder pedals.

[Bearair]

More pics.

 

#1 Cleveland Super Heavy Duty brakes.

#2 Gear bow (Featherlite)

#3 Hardware. Lot's of it

#4 Gear leg (Featherlite) hard points and CH products joysticks

#5 Canopy strut and all the latch rods with shark latch

[Bearair]

More pics

 

#1 Steve Wright nose lift

#2 N number 77 Charlie Zulu! They're purple

#3 Epoxy scale

#4 Pre-cut foam wing cores, winglet cores and canard cores. Lots of extra foam. Seat bottoms and sides, headrests, rear armrests

#5 What we fly in the meantime. She's being very patient sharing some of her "space" with the project

 

Hope this gives you guys some idea. There are a bunch of things I didn't take pictures of like a couple boxes of extra foam sheet, the hot box, the epoxy, etc. There's more hardware than I showed in the pics.

[John D. Wages]

Rob,

 

It all looks good, but I'm curious as to why the previous builder never completed Chapter 7 before moving on to so many other things inside the fuselage. I can see the sides are not contoured and glassed yet. Is the bottom glassed? Anyway, just a curious thought. You'll have a blast being creative with this new project. Best of luck to you, and keep on posting.

[Bearair]

The fuselage was moved to his hangar and his workshop was at the house. He ended up making a LOT of the inside pieces, all of the hardware, cut most of the foam and several other steps. He hadn't glassed the bottom yet. He was using two part foam to level the low spot in the rear that they all have. It's not done on both sides of the duct yet, but it's close. That's the first thing I'm going to do when we bring it back to the shop. Other than that, the bottom is ready to glass. Once the sides are shaped, they're about ready to glass. I think he ran out of glass and did all he could without it. That's fine with me, as I was happy to get all the parts and pieces without a hugely complete project. I want to build it myself! I've got two gallons of MGS 335 so I just need some glass, some flox, some micro and I'm in there.

[Bearair]

Picked up a kerosene heater today. I'm planning on heating the shop with that when I'm working, then set up a tent over parts for curing. I'll be using an electric heater for that (Vornado) since the elements don't get red hot and they have a fan to move air. I should be able to work in the wintertime that way. I'm going to be testing it out in the shop tonight to see if it will heat well enough. I'm pretty sure it will.

[rickh]

Picked up a kerosene heater today.

Please consider that a kerosene (fuel oil, ...) heater will spew unburned hydrocarbons out, they'll settle on everything. Foam might not be a big deal, but secondary bonding to cured fiberglass surfaces...

 

Rick

[Big Steve]

Rob:

 

I think you are going to need more than a kerosene heater to heat your garage up to 70*. I used a kerosene heater when I built my Longeze in S. Calif. It never got below 40* and I had to use 2 heaters to keep the tempt. above 70*. Let me know if it works. STeve

[Bearair]

Rob:

 

I think you are going to need more than a kerosene heater to heat your garage up to 70*. I used a kerosene heater when I built my Longeze in S. Calif. It never got below 40* and I had to use 2 heaters to keep the tempt. above 70*. Let me know if it works. STeve

I let it run for about 45 minutes. The outside temp was 26 degrees just a bit ago. The shop is quite a bit warmer than outside temp, but nowhere near 70. I'd put it about 55. I need to insulate the ceiling and close a part of the roof off at the eave. I knew that going in. Also, if it ran longer it would have been warmer. The point isn't to get it up to 70, but to keep it warm enough for me to work in! I'll use a frame and tent over layups with an electric heater keeping them warm.

[Bearair]

Did some work today checking components against the parts list and checking layups in the fuselage against the layup schedule in chapter 6. Everything looks good so far.

 

Stopped by Lowes on the way home and picked up some insulation for the garage door on the shop. The door on the shop is steel with no insulation, so I cut double sided foil insulation to bond to the inside of the panels tonight (it's foil layered with a plastic inner structure and then another layer of foil). Supposed to be R-5 value in a garage door. It makes a difference as the door no longer feels like it's radiating cold into the shop. Next step is to insulate the ceiling. Then the walls and some better lighting. Hope to have that done before the end of next month. I want to move the fuselage into the shop to get going on it.

[macleodm3]

The point isn't to get it up to 70, but to keep it warm enough for me to work in!

With most of us, the point is actually to get the temp to 70 or so. The materials that will be involved in the layup all need to be a nice warm temperature. You don't want to be working on layups with cold air all around you (<70F) or with any cold materials. Its my understanding that everything needs to start out warm and Stay warm until the layup is entirely cured. Maybe you could build a heat tent or "cubicle" large or enough for you to work in as well as cure in. There's no reason to heat the entire hangar, that would be expensive.

[Bearair]

I'm still working on insulating the shop. I wouldn't even try to heat the hangar. I've got a hot box for the epoxy, and I was going to put the glass, micro and flox in the insulated work area in the end of the shop temporarily. I can heat that room with a space heater. I was figuring I could do the layups in the shop around 65 or so, and then put a tent over them and keep them at 85 or higher. Does that sound like a viable plan or do I need to get the whole area warmer? Thanks!

[macleodm3]

I don't know if that would work, but there a most likely a few here that have tried it. What you're proposing would be to start out with 100 deg. F epoxy, then work with it at 65 deg temps. The epoxy temperature would very quickly reach the temperature of the materials in the room. So the epoxy would be cooled down to 65 deg, then warmed back up to 85 or so when the tent was erected. The cure would take place at 85 degree.... so why wouldn't it work? I don't know.

 

It may be hard to work with (stipple and squeegee) at 65 degrees. Its easy at 75.

 

Couple of ideas

1.) Make tent larger and work inside warm tent (buy camping tent).

2.) Use radiant heater to keep you and materials warm while working (then turn off and set up small heat tent or electric blanket).

3.) Use small or large tent to warm materials before you start work (although they will cool off quickly once tent is down.)

 

Lets try to keep this simple, because otherwise the work will be difficult and hard to finish. I will waste lots of $ heating my shop for layups, but most days are not layups anyway.

[Big Steve]

For small lay-ups I dont think that keeping the work area at 70* is critical but on large lay-ups like the one you are going to have to do on your fuselage exterior I think you will have a hard time squeeging out all the epoxy you would like to. It is to hard to get the whole surface warm enough to move the epoxy. Maybe the mgs is going to be easier than my eze 84 epoxy but even in a warm shop I have to go over it with a heat gun after it has sat awhile to be able to get any resin to move on the squeegee. MY .02 STeve

[Bearair]

I appreciate the input. I'll keep working on insulating the shop over the next few weeks. I'll see how it works out. I also need to put in better lighting. If everything goes well, I should be ready to move the fuselage over here by the end of December.

[Cozy Girrrl]

An all weather shop would be a huge bonus.

When we strarted out that was not an option so we put screw eyes in the rafters above the bench and suspended a pvc pipe frame above the bench, just out of head banging range, then covered that with 6 mil clear plastic sheet that could hang well past the top of the bench. We would put a hefty forced air heater under there with the seams clothspinned shut and let it all heat up for awhile then we could undo one side of the tent and work under it. When the work was done we would roll the seams up (leave excess materialat corners) clothespin the four corners shut and use large map tacks to secure the tent to the edge of the table all the way around. Turn on the heat in the tent (set thermostat on the heater-IMPORTANT) and put a remote indicating BBQ thermometer dangling through a hole in the top. Sort of a slow oven. We coukld get a 40 deg F rise in the tent on the worst days which in most cases made it acceptible for curing resin.

That was cheaper and easier than insulating the garage, putting in a ceiling and replacing two cheap aluminum garage doors at that time... all of which we eventually did.

Pictures of the bench/tent are on our web site.

....Chrissi

[Bearair]

Well people, I hate to admit it, but I'm going to put it all up for sale. My wife and I have been having "issues" regarding the project. It's become a big point to argue about in the last month, and I realize that there's no way to complete a project of this magnitude without support. I'm not going to ruin my marriage over it. It wasn't an issue a few months ago, but it is now.

 

If anyone is interested, drop me a line at Ursam128@aol.com or phone me at 206-861-3878. I'd like to get $7500 out of everything. The previous owner had a bit over $12K in it when he stopped.

 

I'm not happy about this, but I think it's the best course of action.

[Cozy1200]

Sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you have your priorities straight.

 

Any chance you could just literally put it into storage for a couple years? Out of Sight/ Out of Mind. May be start it back up in a few?