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Velocity Steering


DemonFrog

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It ain't broke...

Why complicate a good thing? You need brakes, you get the steering for free.

Steering a nosewheel adds complexity, weight and expense.

Find someone with a Velocity or a Cozy, drive it before you condem it :confused:

Regards, Chrissi

CG Products

www.CozyGirrrl.com

Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo

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It ain't broke...

Why complicate a good thing? You need brakes, you get the steering for free.

Steering a nosewheel adds complexity, weight and expense.

Find someone with a Velocity or a Cozy, drive it before you condem it :confused:

Regards, Chrissi

I agree, drive one first and you will wonder why all those others have a steerable nose wheel. an eze can get into and out of a tight parking spot that you could never do with a streerable nose wheel

Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years

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Don't sweat the brake steering.

 

It is used on many of the Modern "store bought" planes today. I believed it achieved it's first real success in the American Aviation Yankee in 1969. The cirrus uses it, diamond uses it,and it is used by scads of homebuilts including Glassair.

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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I am just used to nosewheel steering i guess, piper apache taxis nicely on grass, no problems, and the program i am in for getting my license uses seminoles and zlin 242s both steerable. i guess my other issue is i feel like i would be losing take off effeciency by having to brake.

 

Heck i'm adaptable, i still think my first hombuilt (at least first composite) s going to be either the velo or ez, just depends on what my requirements are when i finally have money (college student)

 

i should also add that i am willing to learn :D

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i should also add that i am willing to learn :D

That will get you further than anything you do. You have time to read and listen. Most newbees jump in and then proceed to tell us all how they are going to change the world and redesign and reconfigure the aircraft to meet their requirements. That chances of most people finishing a project of this scale are slim, for some reason airplane builders are so obcessed they do not read statistics and manage to muddle through and get it done, typically the ones who change and modify their first project get mired in the unknown territory with no support and move on to a new shiney object. We should talk as we (Randi & I) are doing a bit of all that and are working at getting un-mired and away from new shiney objects. We have had to solve some difficult problems created by seemingly simple mods (modifications, not moderators, simple moderators are another issue :ROTFLMAO: )

And there is this little distraction of trying to make a living at making metal parts for aircraft, at least the customers are cool.

Anyhow, we jumped into this canard aircraft thing right away, like "I want to finish getting my license, oh, I guess we need a plane, oh get a kitplanes magazine, A..B...Berkut..look Randi this one is cute; its named after some Russian bird of prey, dang that expensive (turn page) C... Cozy, oh look, just like a Berkut but seats four and you build it from plans! (pick up phone and order plans)(turn a few pages) Hey heres the retracts it's missing (pick up phone and order retracts)"....

That is NOT how to proceed to build a plane. Too much like building a car by thumbing through a JC Whitney catalog! (A boyfriend once told me if you believe everything you read in there and add it up you could simply bolt on about 1000 HP)

We'd have done a lot of things differently if we had sat back and listened and read everything in sight before diving in with the epoxy.

 

Some years later "oh crap, Brocks is going out of business, someone needs to do this......." (that little adventure caused a two year delay in our building)

 

Did I mention we just got back from EZ-Jets and the Rotory Roundup Fly-in?

NO, we are not going to convert to a jet engine yet :D

 

...Chrissi

CG Products

www.CozyGirrrl.com

Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo

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When I first started flying lessons, the Socata TB-9 I flew had very reponsive nosewheel steering which worked very well. I recently switched to a Cessna 172, which has nosewheel steering but requires the use of the brakes to get good ground steering. I was very frustrated at first, because I didn't realize that the differential braking would help steering, so I didn't use the brakes for steering. After one lesson of using the brakes for steering, I enjoy it and am looking forward to my Cozy brake steering. It works very well, even in a Cessna.

Andrew Anunson

I work underground and I play in the sky... no problem

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't have to think long, you loose steering in that direction!

 

All the more reason to perform periodic maintenance on the brakes.

 

SO, What happens if you loose a brake?

 

There are so many possibilities I can't even imagine starting a list, but here are a couple basic procedures to think about and keep in the back of your mind in case this ever happens:

 

Keep in mind the rudders will be effect at a fairly low speed, the main problem will be cross winds.

 

 

1) If landing and you find no direction control, go around and land the plane crosswind with the wind coming from "Good" side. The plane will attempt to turn with the wind so you can use the good brake to keep it centered.

 

2) If able, (and slow enough) use good brake and pull off runway/taxiway onto grass. Make this decision while you still have some rudder authority.

 

3) Keep speed up, so rudders are still somewhat effective.

 

4) Lower nose gear ( if electric) a little. this will make it harder for the nose to turn.

 

5) Drop the nose - If things are looking real bad, retract the nose gear and drop it on its nose (This will happen very fast if you have a manual nose gear, the gears strip out and down she comes.)

 

6) When you realize that you've lost a brake, you need to make decisions before you loose rudder authority.

 

PROBLEMS WITH NOSE STEERING

 

Because of the close geometry of the main gear (close in), nose wheel steering is strongly discouraged. It would be very EZ to tip the plane over if equipped with nose steering. With differential braking, I'd submit that its impossible to tip the plane as a result of "turning to fast".

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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Thanks I appreciate your personal insight. But I'm still thinking, why even go there with all the "ifs", etc.

 

Obviously it makes things more complicated, but that's why we love it right?

 

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not trying to "stir the pot"; I'm for a safer ride.

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complicated.......safer

If you could only make those two words play nice with each other, you might be on to something. If you try to remove all the "if's" your speaking of, you create a whole new set of them. The whole compromise thing that any airplane is built on will always create "what if's".

Regards,

Jason T Heath

MarkIV #1418

heathjasont@yahoo.com

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:confused: soooooo ........ what's your point? If you can't slow down due to brake failure you're in the same boat anyway, right? Can't turn if you can't slow down. Steer with the rudder(s) if you are moving fast enough (same as on a certified plane.

Biggest problem come up when the pavement ends!

 

Think about it .........

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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Biggest problem come up when the pavement ends!

 

Think about it .........

Exactly I thought same I wonder have you read this NTSB report it isn't about brake problems but described accident was very similar to accident caused by break problems.

A pilot just couldn't stop the plane.:sad:

btw It's about Varieze.

 

The pilot stated that while hand-propping the airplane's engine as required to start it, the engine started and the airplane began to move. He stated that it gathered speed rapidly and he was unable to stop it. The airplane taxied unmanned approximately 500 feet before colliding into a T-hangar. The pilot reported that the front three-feet of the airplane was destroyed. The pilot stated that the airplane was not chocked at the time of engine start

Mak

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Exactly I thought same I wonder have you read this NTSB report it isn't about brake problems but described accident was very similar to accident caused by break problems.

A pilot just couldn't stop the plane.

btw It's about Varieze.

This accident had nothing to do with brakes, The problem was, there was "NO PILOT" in the plane. As the plane was speeding across the ramp, the Pilot was running behind it trying to catch the plane!

 

NOTE: If the end of the runway is coming up fast, retract the nose gear. Guarenteed you'll stop. ( I don't think this is an option on a Cessna)

 

Keep this little tid bit in your emergency procedures, It may save your bacon someday.

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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This accident had nothing to do with brakes, The problem was, there was "NO PILOT" in the plane. As the plane was speeding across the ramp, the Pilot was running behind it trying to catch the plane!

Yes I know he wasn't inside but I was going to show what could happen when you lose brakes. ( i dont know why he didnt use chocks)

 

If the end of the runway is coming up fast, retract the nose gear. Guarenteed you'll stop.

Thanks for info I hope it won't be necessary:D but is that "safe" to retract the nose gear when you have about 50mph? on your gauge (I dont know how much speed you can lose without brakes and the pavement isn't endless).

btw I've seen somewhere a picture with canard plane after the front gear collapsed but I cant remember where was that and I dont know how fast he was when that happened.

 

Mak

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Just a thought: IF your brakes never fail, all is well.

Someone has said that you get steering for free as a result of braking, true.

But what if your brakes fail? What happens to your steering? THINK about it!

 

About the same thing you get if the bolt in the nutcracker of a steerable nosewheel breaks. Of course in the EZtypes, you would probably be able to still turn one way.:bad:

I Canardly contain myself!

Rich :D

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but is that "safe" to retract the nose gear when you have about 50mph?

Sure, Ask most EZ drivers. A lot of them have done it (well, they didn't retract it, they just didn't put it down)!:envy: :envy:

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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  • 7 months later...

I was thinking something like the big planes do (dash 8) with a seperate "wheel" to steer the nosewheel, mabye with a large servo, worst case scenario, servo gears strip and you have a normal velo nosewheel. anyway, i'm now thinking more along the lines of a Q-200 :-)

 

Just an add on, the Z242 is very manoeverable on the ground

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I was thinking something like the big planes do (dash 8) with a seperate "wheel" to steer the nosewheel

Google "Nose Wheel Tiller" for more information on this!

 

There really is nothing wrong with differential braking used for steering. A steerable nose wheel on a plans built EZ would introduce an unsatisfactory and unsafe ground handling characteristic, the plane would be very EZ to tip sideways. To reduce this tipping tendancy, the main gear would need to be spread apart, perhaps 24 inches on each side. a wider stance would reduce /eliminate tipping. Now, with the wider stance, you'll now have a wider turning radius.

 

Two huge advantages of the standard EZ with the castering nose and differential braking; Very small turning radius, I can litterally lock up one of the mains and pivot on that tire. ALSO, its impossible to tip the plane due to steering inputs, PERIOD.

 

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

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