Jump to content

Yankee one ready to take shape


Recommended Posts

Well I decided to come out of the shadows, I purchased an ez project earlier this year, ending a five year search for a plane that would fit my mission profile. At the time I didn't have a place to even put the damn thing, so it spent time in my living room and my back parking space. My girlfreind (now my wife, momma didn't raise any stuipid children::D ) was very, very supportive. We now have a hanger at BCT in fl :thumbsup:

 

The best part is the plane is a clear slate, there is no interior, electrical, engine, avionics, or paint get the picture. However, we do have a master plan. The following is what we have in mind:

 

1) glass cockpit(Dynon 180 and Avmap nav system)

 

2) retractable landing gear(Infinity & Wright retrac nose gear)

 

3) HOT & HOS (Infinity)

 

4) IO320

 

5) oxygen system (open for suggestion)

 

6) replace the canard (Ronez)

 

7) Berkut style canopy (she already has a split canopy)

 

We know this will not happen overnight, and we are open to comments and ideas. So don't be shy, I like a lively debate.

 

I will also have a ton of questions.

 

Thanks for now, damyankee, fueltank and sadie (pitbull in charge of security and ground crew):cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Again

 

Well after much head banging i think I've figured out how to insert pic of the plane. These are from my first inspection, at first my flying buddy though i was out of my mind:yikes: when he really started to look at time and heard my plan he agreed.

 

As you can see i have my hands full

 

thanks damyankee, fueltank and sadie (pitbull in charge of security and ground crew)

post-1732-141090156847_thumb.jpg

post-1732-141090156858_thumb.jpg

post-1732-141090156869_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the wild, wonderful world of project building. Looks like a good start for you. I'm in Port Charlotte on the left coast. Maybe we can meet up some day. Hopefully at a fly in when we are done. :cool:

Press on!

Tom

"Time flys when your building"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

damyankee,

Congrats on getting the project on the net. If you get a chance could you get some shots of the split canopy seals and hinge detail? I would stay away from Berkut canopy and stay with the fixed gear. You will be flying a lot sooner and have a safer A/C. After building to the 98% complete and 50% to go I have observed that building big stuff like wings and canard go really fast compared to all of the system stuff and getting things to work correctly you burn a lot of time and see little progress. Keep going what ever you decide!

 

Joe Berki

Limo EZ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Limo

 

Here is a pic of the canopy and drip rail, I'm going to lay up a berkut mid section and shorten the canopies. On the subject of safety if I have to get out of the plane and " hit the silk" I prefer to have the option of exit stage right or left. With a berkut stlyle I can pop the canopy and let the air stream blow the canopy away. If you look at old gun camera film during WW2 me-109 and early version of spitfire's had left side opening canopy's you can see the pilots fighting to get out especially when the plane spins or rolls setting up centrifugal forces that are trying to keep the pilot in the plane. The landing gear is something I personnel want, the chance of landing with your gear up is more a problem of cockpit management then the gear itself. The time and money invested is worth it, by the way I write the checks and if you your going spend the money to have a plane GET WHAT YOU WANT.

 

With all that said, keep the cards and letters coming :cool:

post-1732-141090157174_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we have a statistical record somewhere of the accounts where Cozy/EZe pilots have needed to 'hit the silk' due to an inflight necessity?

Self confessed Wingnut.

Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.?

Get up off that couch!!! =)

 

Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we have a statistical record somewhere of the accounts where Cozy/EZe pilots have needed to 'hit the silk' due to an inflight necessity?

The NTSB has that information.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we have a statistical record somewhere of the accounts where Cozy/EZe pilots have needed to 'hit the silk' due to an inflight necessity?

The number is zero. Hasn't happened, or at least if it has, it hasn't been reported.

 

So, with all the things that DO happen to these planes (canopies opening on takeoff, landing gear up, etc.), planning for things that never happen seems counterproductive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, with all the things that DO happen to these planes (canopies opening on takeoff, landing gear up, etc.), planning for things that never happen seems counterproductive.

If you don't have it, you won't use it.

The NTSB has a whole list of folks that fall into that catagory.

 

Would Steve Drybread have used one?

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't have it, you won't use it.

Of course. But how many folks flying GA aircraft wear a chute all the time? I can guarantee you it's close to zero. There's a reason for that. If you take a look at the distribution of accident types, the count of fatal ones that could have been non-fatal if a parachute was worn and used is a very small percentage of the total.

 

The NTSB has a whole list of folks that fall into that catagory.

Yeah, so? The list of things that would cause someone to need to jump out of an aircraft are exceedingly small - structural failure is about the only thing I can think of. There have been a total of three or four structural failures of Rutan derivative canard aircraft that I can think of, and ALL were caused by builder error or the functional equivalent - none by the design.

 

Given all the folks that have been injured and killed by OTHER, more likely and more easily fixable problems, using something that never happens in a correctly built aircraft as a justification for mods that ADD risk in other areas seems, as I've said, counterproductive.

 

Anyone contemplating modifications to aircraft, purportedly for safety reasons, should read Al Wick's website explanation of risk management. Actually, we should ALL read it, since most people don't have the faintest clue how to evaluate or manage risk.

 

Would Steve Drybread have used one?

Nope. His canard came off at low altitude - somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 ft, IIRC - wouldn't have been enough time to do anything.

 

Same with Paul Conner - deep stall at low altitude - 200 ft. or so - no chance for exit.

 

Maybe Gus Sabo could have used one, but since we really don't know what happened to his plane, it's hard to say. Came apart while dodging T-Storms over Mexico at high altitude (18K ft or more) without O2. Hypoxia, loss of control - who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..... so then why is it the FARs require you to wear a chute when doing aerobatics?

Waiter ...... you said you do aerobatics. Do you wear a chute?

400 ft is too low to deploy? Based on what?

Do you know how close to the surface a chute must open to save your life (i.e. literally walk away?)

 

You narrow the need to structural failures.

What about inflight fires? Wait long enough and you'll have a structural failure added to that situation.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..... so then why is it the FARs require you to wear a chute when doing aerobatics?

Because aerobatics causes higher stresses in aircraft than non-aerobatic flights do. And per 91.307, parachutes are only required when doing aerobatics with non-crew passengers - otherwise, they're not required. Why do you ask questions that you already know the answers to? What percentage of GA flights are aerobatic? Where were we talking about aerobatics in aircraft that were neither designed or approved for aerobatics?

 

400 ft is too low to deploy? Based on what?

Based on going down at 100-200 mph at a 45 degree angle after the canard comes off. Even at 100 mph, the downward velocity would be 100 fps, so impact would occur about 4 seconds after canard departure. If you believe that you can (without an ejection seat) open the canopy, unbelt, climb out, and jump out of the aircraft all within 4 seconds, more power to you.

 

Do you know how close to the surface a chute must open to save your life (i.e. literally walk away?)

Nope. But the issue (at least in Steve Drybread's case) wasn't how close the chute would be to the ground when it opens - it's whether he could have gotten out of the plane and pulled the cord, and the answer is clearly no. I can't get out of my plane in 4 seconds sitting still on the ground, much less in the air.

 

You narrow the need to structural failures.

Those are the only situations in these canards where parachutes might have been useful that I can think of. There may be others - I just can't think of them at the moment.

 

What about inflight fires? Wait long enough and you'll have a structural failure added to that situation.

True. The only in-flight fire I can think of was at relatively low altitude, and the plane (a VE) was flying fine. The fatality occurred on the ground - not because the pilot couldn't get to the ground in time. I certainly wouldn't have bailed out of a flying canard airplane because there was a fire in the engine compartment.

 

I'm not claiming that there aren't times at which a parachute might be useful - there are. I'm just claiming that modifying the aircraft to facilitate parachute usage, when the mods increase risk in other areas, may not be the optimal solution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you give me some links or tell me something about it ....

There's Steve Drybread's Berkut canard coming off due to the canard attach bolts not being installed. There's Gus Sabo's plane coming apart at high altitude, probably due to hypoxia and flight through T-Storms in Mexico. There's one report in the CP's of a VE/LE winglet departing the aircraft due to peel ply being left in the structural layups. There's a French COZY that had a fatal crash, and post crash inspection showed multiple build errors in layups in multiple areas of the aircraft - IIRC the COZY newsletters have that one reported. There may very well be more that I can't think of.

 

Read the CP's from start to finish. Read the COZY newsletters from start to finish. Read the accident reports on the NTSB web site (and the two reports that I've got on my web site).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based on going down at 100-200 mph at a 45 degree angle after the canard comes off. Even at 100 mph, the downward velocity would be 100 fps, so impact would occur about 4 seconds after canard departure. If you believe that you can (without an ejection seat) open the canopy, unbelt, climb out, and jump out of the aircraft all within 4 seconds, more power to you.

 

4 seconds is a long time in this situation. I've managed to do a lot more in less time when on a collision course with terra-firma.

 

Besides, the mechanics of a parachute are not dependent on altitude. It is based on the amount of air you pass through.

 

Nope. But the issue (at least in Steve Drybread's case) wasn't how close the chute would be to the ground when it opens - it's whether he could have gotten out of the plane and pulled the cord, and the answer is clearly no. I can't get out of my plane in 4 seconds sitting still on the ground, much less in the air.

 

Given the right motivation ..... you could.

True. The only in-flight fire I can think of was at relatively low altitude, and the plane (a VE) was flying fine. The fatality occurred on the ground - not because the pilot couldn't get to the ground in time.

 

:) Most do.

 

...... and the answer to the $64,000 question:

How far above the ground does the parachute need to open?

If you get line stretch, you'll walk away.

 

I believe 'resignation' is one of the fatal attitudes they cover in basic flight training. I would not want to be in a burning plane wishing I had a chute.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See, this is weird for me ... I've never flown an hour without a parachute ... and most hours with ejection seat strapped to caboose. I cannot imagine flying w/out (!), although Marc's comments make tons of sense (no surprise) in a GA world ...

 

I tend to think that "modding for safety" is a contradiction in terms ... kind of like "naval intelligence".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this thread got diverted:

 

Waiter ...... you said you do aerobatics. Do you wear a chute?

Generally not. If I have a passenger, They are wearing a chute, sometimes I will also, most of the time I won't.

 

(When I do a charity ride, I get them all dressed up in flight gear, parachutes, and everything, its part of the show)

 

A parachute is not required for the pilot, only a "Non Crew passenger"

 

If you have a chute and want to wear it all the time, go for it. I find them heavy and uncomfortable.

 

As Marc points out, the likelihood that most pilots will ever be in a position that they would need it, AND BE ABLE TO DEPLOY IT, are very, very remote.

 

Parachutes are great for four types of flying: 1) Formation, 2) ACM, 3) Flight over rough terrain, and 4) Flight Testing unproven aircraftt or maneuvers

 

Notice I left Acrobatics out, if your performing approved maneuvers in an approved manner, there is no more risk than straight and level flight.

 

The following may seem a little morbid, but these are my observations from several fatal accidents I've had the opportunity to assist with the investigation.

 

Formation and ACM bring with it the risk of high energy collision. Keep in mind that when a fuselage breaks up in flight, the pilot generally breaks up with the fuselage.

 

If your still in one piece after the collision, your conscious, and the structure is not tumbling or has trapped you in the debris, A parachute would obviously make your day. ( When you land, you better buy a mega millions lottery ticket, because this is the luckiest day of your life)

 

We don't have access to the coroners reports, but most of the fatalities from mid airs are a result of trauma from the midair and subsequent breakup, and not as a result of the debris striking the ground. i.e. these people were dead before they knew what happened.

 

Of the scenarios that I've seen described so far, Gus would most likely have benefited. I was one of the two EZ drivers who participated in the accident investigation and viewed the debris first hand. The report that I submitted to the Mexican government indicated that the aircraft impacted the water inverted, with zero forward airspeed, (i.e. inverted deep stall)

 

CONCLUSIONS

 

If a pilot is not comfortable flying without a chute, get one, keep it maintained, and wear it, they have my respect.

 

Whats that saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you look at old gun camera film during WW2 me-109 and early version of spitfire's had left side opening canopy's :

I agree with you about Bf109 but could you tell me where have you seen Spitfire with side canopy even first prototype had slide ones.

btw One thing about me-109 there wasn't anything like that.

Read this.

The renaming of BFW resulted in the company's RLM designation changing from Bf to Me. Existing types, such as the Bf 109 and 110, retained their earlier designation in official documents. In practise, all BFW/Messerschmitt aircraft from 108 to 163 (not the same plane as the Me 163) were prefixed Bf, all later types with Me.

Mak

post-2134-141090157177_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Satch;

 

I used to own a company that worked on civilian aircraft ejection seats.

 

I was probably my own best competitor, as I would literally try and talk my customers out of a hot Ejection Seat (ES).

 

ESs require extensive maintenance, training, and most of all Security. Governments (USAF, ARMY, MARINES, NAVY, ETC) have no problem with this and are very good at it, However, Most Civilians are not willing to make this investment.

 

Ejection seats offer significant advantages in their ability to separate a pilot from a fuselage thats breaking up in flight. But if your not participating in the high risk flying, then the costs and risks of the ejection seat are simply not worth it (IMHO)

 

The only place that I could think of were average Joe blow would benefit from ES or just a parachute would be flying over rough terrain. If the odds of surviving a forced landing are very poor. In this case it would be advantageous to "hit the silk".

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this thread got diverted:

 

Yeah ....... usually does when the subject of retracts, rear opening canopy or parachute appears in any of the text.

If you have a chute and want to wear it all the time, go for it. I find them heavy and uncomfortable.

 

With the advent of the F-111 fabric (about 20-25 years ago if my memory doesn't fail me) the pack size/weight went down a lot. My main and reserve combined weighed in the 20lb range. An emergency parachute weighs a lot less depending on the container/chute combination you select.

 

As Marc points out, the likelihood that most pilots will ever be in a position that they would need it, AND BE ABLE TO DEPLOY IT, are very, very remote.

 

Yes ...... emergency procedures are best practiced on the ground and in advance of the emergency however, when properly trained they become very easy to perform in what would ordinarilly be a high stress environment.

 

If a pilot is not comfortable flying without a chute, get one, keep it maintained, and wear it, they have my respect.

 

Whats that saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

 

Yep, I find them quite comfortable. It's not a matter of feeling uncomfortable flying without one but more along the lines of no discomfort flying with one.

:)

 

So when the wings fall off while I'm on fire over the Andes at night...... I'll have it made!

(did we cover night cross country engine out procedures here?)

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So when the wings fall off while I'm on fire over the Andes at night...... I'll have it made!

Didn't you say you got hit by a meteor, thats why the wings fell off?? :-)

 

(Hey speaking of Meteor, I stopped out at Meteor Crater last Thursday, WOW, That was Awesome.)

 

Waiter

F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget

LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract

visit: www.iflyez.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 seconds is a long time in this situatuation................

Given the right motivation ..... you could.

Well thats a load of ......, When does the motivation" kick in, your climbing out and your canard decides to climb alittle faster and without you, whats your first instinct? Fly the plane? maybe, maybe not. Did you actually plan for that, is it part of your normal scan, how long does it take for you to realize you lost all control and its time to get out? can you even think when faced with that realization, adrenaline can be as paralyzing as it can be energizing. If you had time for resignation, you might have had time to get out safely, so a parachute does have its benefits but probably not for the accidents that your speaking of.

 

 

How far above the ground does the parachute need to open?

If you get line stretch, you'll walk away.

I'm no expert on parachutes, but the Paracushion site says 2-3 seconds (depending on speed) and a drop of 150-300 feet. so you've just eaten up most of your alltitude and time, not very reasuring for low level needs.

 

with regards to Satch's comment, I've only flown 40-50 hours as a passenger in various GA planes and I've never been sent to drop school or had to wear a parachute, in fact if my pilot friends were to tell me I had to do one or the other, I might have to re-think flying with them or in their plane.

 

My questions to all this, why are you building an airplane? Do you plan to take your friends, wife and children places? if so, what happens to your children when daddy decides to bail out? Waiter was the first person to even mention someone else in the plane, even though I'm pretty sure he knows that he's not going to climb in the backseat and throw them out of the plane at any altitude. I'm not against parachutes, it just doesnt sound like the big picture is very clear.

Regards,

Jason T Heath

MarkIV #1418

heathjasont@yahoo.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no expert on parachutes, but ........

Well then let's just leave it at that. :)

..... but, at the same time having been a Jumpmaster and demo team jumper ...... I am!

 

......in fact if my pilot friends were to tell me I had to do one or the other, I might have to re-think flying with them or in their plane........

:ROTFLMAO: This is working out better than I thought!

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information