Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 So TMann, If I read about that gear correctly, you lose fuel capacity, gain weight, cost, possible insurance rate increase, risk of gear up landing and complexity, for only about 5kts? I'm not sure how that is well educated, but O.K. I'll probably go with RG too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 TMann, <Hmmmmmm ...... maybe the Cozy isn't the right canard for your specifications. Have you looked at the Voyager? It has much more range and is a proven design.>TMann Maybe you should have thought about the Voyager also, as it has retractable landing gear and the designer Puffer/Rutan said RG BAD on their Long and Cozy designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiter Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hans, I seen that photo a week ago with the pods mounted on the strakes. The pod instructions have you mount them on the wing. There are six attach points; 2 on the upper leading edge, 2 in front of the spar cap, and 2 behind the spar cap. The aircraft in the photo may have had to alter the mounting points a little, I would bet that he installed four of the hard points on the strake (leading edge and in front of the center spar) and two on the wing (behind the wing spar). Perfectly acceptable. You can review these instructions on my web site at: http://www.iflyez.com/Placards.shtml scroll down to BAGGAGE PODS, its a PDF file. Waiter Quote F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract visit: www.iflyez.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 TMann, <Hmmmmmm ...... maybe the Cozy isn't the right canard for your specifications. Have you looked at the Voyager? It has much more range and is a proven design.>TMann Maybe you should have thought about the Voyager also, as it has retractable landing gear and the designer Puffer/Rutan said RG BAD on their Long and Cozy designs. Well first let's get to the real brains behind the design (Burt Rutan) if you want to make quotes. As a matter of fact, he usually does not share his opinion on things such as Rutan derrivitives. You really need to get a set of plans and do some research from that vantage point. It will answer a lot of your questions. What, you don't understand (and I will take the time to explain) is that you lose 8 gal. of fuel capacity in the strakes when you install the Infinity retracts. However, the area behind the passenger seat that once carried the landing gear and supporting hardware is now available for fuel storage. That makes the loss a moot point. Now if you go one step futher and install the Berkut style sump in the passenger thigh support, it is a total non-issue. As far as a Rutan quote saying R/G is a bad Idea for these birds? Never heard it. Why does the nose gear retract? As far as airspeed increase, where are these figures coming from? Is that a 5 knt increase using what power plant? Why does the Berkut run full retracts? If I get 10-12 knt increase in performance (at the same power setting) how would that affect my range given my total fuel capacity? If you are seriously considering retracts, you need to talk to the manufacturer because the numbers you are working with are all wrong. If you are just making conversation ..... then any numbers will work. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Well first let's get to the real brains behind the design (Burt Rutan) if you want to make quotes. As a matter of fact, he usually does not share his opinion on things such as Rutan derrivitives.The quotes came from various sites stating their views on the subject. Thinking about it more, I think Rutan's idea was more, "Keep it simple." (not quote) What, you don't understand (and I will take the time to explain) is that you lose 8 gal. of fuel capacity in the strakes when you install the Infinity retracts. However, the area behind the passenger seat that once carried the landing gear and supporting hardware is now available for fuel storage. That makes the loss a moot point. Now if you go one step futher and install the Berkut style sump in the passenger thigh support, it is a total non-issue. and As far as airspeed increase, where are these figures coming from? Is that a 5 knt increase using what power plant? Why does the Berkut run full retracts? If I get 10-12 knt increase in performance (at the same power setting) how would that affect my range given my total fuel capacity? The numbers came from various threads on this site. As far as putting fuel where the fixed gear used to be, cool, that's more of the explanation that I would need, not that I should look into a Voyager. You really need to get a set of plans and do some research from that vantage point. It will answer a lot of your questions. As stated earlier, I am working on getting the plans. If it bothers you to answer questions, then don't respond, I'll let you know when I get them and you can flame me by specific page numbers then. As far as a Rutan quote saying R/G is a bad Idea for these birds? Never heard it. Why does the nose gear retract?I've been told that it has to do with parking it so it doesn't flop backwards as there is virtually no weight in the front and that you don't want to be walking on the strakes. This post originally started as a way to use the pants as a dual purpose type of thing. Fuel was my first thought, but as others stated, hot brakes+fuel=oops. But anyone using fixed gear has the ability to use it for something, though I don't know what. And, as stated before, I'll probably go with RG, but it might not be infinity. I try to do a search before I ask a question, if I couldn't find it in search mode how am I expected to know if someone has thought about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Waiter, Thanks, I hadn't seen the directions before, just those pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The quotes came from various sites stating their views on the subject. Thinking about it more, I think Rutan's idea was more, "Keep it simple." (not quote) Rutan's philosophy wa s more along the lines of "Keep it EZ".The complexity of the build increased a ton when the fuselage was split length wise. I can see it in the various plans I have here. That modification warranted the elimination of the "EZ" suffix. I can't speak to other retracts but with the infinity retracts (or others as well) I don't believe you will experience a noticeable effect on your overall build time. When I state the figures for fuel storage gained behind the rear seat, that is for my build and would be different for a Aerocanard or Cozy (greater capacity.) When you look at the Long-EZ and compare the gross weight to a Cozy, keep in mind that the extra two passengers are supported by the same wing area. All factors to keep in mind. Also, when you figure in the capacity of your retractable gear, you will want it to be able to handle a full load of fuel, passengers and baggage in the event of an aborted takeoff. That's a lot of weight. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 ...this is the best time for me to design any changes.Actually, unless this is the second airplane you're building, it's probably the worst time for that. Build your bulkheads first, not wider. Need to be wider? Okay, go ahead. Next, build the fuselage sides (be sure to accomodate the wider bulkheads). Fit it all together, install the seatback brace, floor, and skin the whole thing. No biggie, but THEN do tell us what mods you'll be making. This is a tuff crowd and some people don't want to try out their flame suit.Yes, true, and you've held up well! Good job not getting upset as many newcomers often do (even oldcomers). However, I do sense a number of tongues being bit right now. I am imagining a virtual floodgate where all sorts of sh*t is going to hit the fan that's right now blowing a gentle breeze your way. Enjoy the ride before you know it all too! Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I've got a good suit. Military, heavy industrial electrician, twin 8yr old boys, ADHD, married. I laugh at the flaming, HAR HAR HAR! (Pirate accent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 However, I do sense a number of tongues being bit right now. I am imagining a virtual floodgate where all sorts of sh*t is going to hit the fan that's right now blowing a gentle breeze your way. I was going to ask about ducted fans, figured I'd wait on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Some crazy (just kidding Perry!) already did a ducted fan EZ, so no worry about asking about that. www.ductedfan.com Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans S Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I hadn't read over his stuff yet, so I didn't ask. Still haven't, so I'm still not going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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