Alternate Engines

[Drew Swenson]

From what I read, you bang the crap out of a metal prop with all the dirty air coming off the fuselage----but there are many other kinds of pusher aircraft with metal props---so question mark here.

 

But again, why go to a metal prop to begin with---unless you have a free one laying around?

 

CS props are 5ish times the cost of a carbon fiber/wood core prop. Metal (non CS) props are 3ish times the cost of a CF/wood core prop. Metal props have a fatigue life, wood ones don't. No special skills to repair a CF/wood prop. CF/wood is much lighter. The only negative that I know of for a wood prop is it's ability to ride out the rain. Oh---one other slight negative is that you have to pay attention to prop bolt torque for changing conditions (temp/humidity/etc). I keep trying to figure out why people want to move to metal----I don't see it---but maybe I missed something.

 

One more comment on wood props---make sure you seal the center hole. I use a wine cork. You don't want water to get in there. You could put a plate over it or use a spinner (even if I had a spinner, I would keep the cork). At airshows/fly-ins, everyone gets a kick out of seeing my wine cork.

[gianmarko]

i dont like metal props, you might wonder why, but i love composites :-)

 

i have a ivoprop on my current little airplane and very happy with performance, weight and cost. i heard they dont perform well in fast ships, but id try one just for the sake of it.

 

 

thanks for all the info folks. ill keep you posted on progress.

 

the airplane has been acquired by a friend together with other 5 or 6, he is removing the IO-360 and fitting a O-320, then if we agree on price i will acquire it. O-320 should solve CG problems at least to some extent. airplane will be weighted and balanced, and test flown by a competent pilot. then will need to find a way to either fly or ship it here. we will see. seems like a dream i am finally getting old of the airplane of my dreams

[Edge 513]

Congradulations gianmarko! It is good to finally realize a dream!!! We hope everything works out GREAT for you and that LongEze purchase!

[Marc Zeitlin]

has anyone install a rotax ? yes Glenn Saunders of florida had a vari ez with a 914 turbo but he had engine trouble and was killed in the crash in 2005

Glenn did not have "engine trouble", he had an engine compartment fire most probably caused by having sub-standard fuel line components, which have nothing to do with what type of engine he had.

 

See:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/Glenn_Saunders/index.html

 

for info on his accident.

[Lynn Erickson]

Glenn did not have "engine trouble", he had an engine compartment fire most probably caused by having sub-standard fuel line components, which have nothing to do with what type of engine he had.

 

See:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/Glenn_Saunders/index.html

 

for info on his accident.

ah but if you look at many of the rotax engine installation you will see those same non aircraft clear plastic fuel lines. if he had a lycoming it is more likely that he would have had aircraft type fuel lines. In many cases the type of engine does change ones mind set as to the type of engine support equipment they use. if it is in an aircraft it should be aircraft quality parts not snowmoble parts

[Marc Zeitlin]

...if it is in an aircraft it should be aircraft quality parts not snowmoble parts

Agreed 100%.

 

I think that a lot of the Rotax powered homebuilt aircraft tend to be Kitfox type low and slow planes - if something goes wrong, they just land in the closest 200 ft. long field.

 

If you look at Rotax powered certificated aircraft (Katana's, etc.), you'll see real aircraft stuff under the hood - not car parts and crappy rubber. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the 4-stroke rotaxes - as you say, you just need to treat anything in an aircraft like an aircraft.

[gianmarko]

912 is an engine designed on purpose and even exist in certified version. it has never been used on snowmobiles. or beetles.

in fact, the 912 has demonstrated high reliability, even higher than lycosaurii. and they are robust and user friendlly. no CHT or oil temp management, just use it like your car.

 

of course, they must be fitted and integrated properly to the airframe.

 

a 912 will routinely reach TBO and beyond with just regular oil changes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ah but if you look at many of the rotax engine installation you will see those same non aircraft clear plastic fuel lines. if he had a lycoming it is more likely that he would have had aircraft type fuel lines. In many cases the type of engine does change ones mind set as to the type of engine support equipment they use. if it is in an aircraft it should be aircraft quality parts not snowmoble parts

[Jim Vassar]

`Hate to reveal my ignorance but, the topic WAS labeled alt engines. Has anyone bolted a Corvair to the back of a LE?

[gianmarko]

in the meanwhile, thank also to the info i got here, i came to the conclusion than O-320 will be the poweplant in the LE i am going to acquire.

 

thanks to all for the help, will keep you posted on progress

[Lynn Erickson]

`Hate to reveal my ignorance but, the topic WAS labeled alt engines. Has anyone bolted a Corvair to the back of a LE?

a corvair is 120 cubic inches old tech engine. its puts out about 80 HP at at 2700 RPM. not worth the time and effort to install

[Cozy Girrrl]

Sorry, the corvair engines with aero modifications are putting out 100-110 HP. It still has a spotty record as an aircraft engine.

It is the engine of choice in several very lightly loaded, slow, old timey rag and tube planes like the Pietenpol, then again, if the crank breaks in half in a Piet, as long as it stays WITH the airframe, the landing may not be a big deal though the airframe may not survive the 35-45 mph landing.

If you are going to do an alternative engine in a canard, please do it because you may see some advantage to it OTHER than cheaping out. If low cost is your motivation you will probably make other cost motivated choices along the way and endanger yourself.

This is not a plane to entertain 80 mph off field landings in. Think about it, would you swerve off the freeway and go cross country in your car at 80 mph with your seatbelts and airbags?

Regards, Chrissi

[Aurelflying]

Hi,

 

I'm finishing assembly of a VariEz in France!!

I'd like to know if there is now more feed back regading Rotax 912S (100HP) on Ez? 

Drawing of 912S mount is available somewhere, or better, RAF drawing?

French administration is not open of mind, if the engine you want to install have not been explicitly mentionned on drawings...

 

thank's for help!

[Jon Matcho]

Hi,

 

I'm finishing assembly of a VariEz in France!!

 

Hello, welcome, and very nice... please post a picture or two here.

 

 

 

I'd like to know if there is now more feed back regading Rotax 912S (100HP) on Ez? 

Drawing of 912S mount is available somewhere, or better, RAF drawing?

 

The only "official" engines for the VariEze were Continentals and the Lycoming O-235, all maxing out at 100hp.  Much higher has been done, but...

 

 

 

French administration is not open of mind, if the engine you want to install have not been explicitly mentionned on drawings...

 

Since a drawing for the Rotax may not exist, you may have to get someone to design something that will pass whatever test is required by the French flight agency.  You might be able to get some drawings from another model, such as the Zenith:  http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-engine.html

 

Regardless, the Rotax is a unique powerplant for the VariEze and you would have to verify your own design and be certain your weight and balance were perfect.  The result would be a unique aircraft.  

 

Be safe!

[787Guy]

There was a Rotax 914 put on either a V.E. Or L.E. Sometime ago down here in Florida. Unfortunately the aircraft caught fire and the plane and pilot perished. I believe he was an A&P mechanic as well. The Rotax uses a bed mount so it would not be hard to do. Plus it's at least 50lbs lighter than a continental or Lycoming so weight and balance would be an issue but I think it would be an awesome engine to use on a V.E. Performance and fuel burn would both be improved.

[Lukeman]

My way of thinking.,,

 

1.- Those automotive engines are not design and will not stand 75% power output 100% of the time, as an aircraft engine do.

2.-  Rotary engines have many cooling, lubrication and fuel consumption problems to be considered as airworthy.

3.- An old aircraft engine as a 320 or 360 has more than enough power and reliability to be used on the LE. Also they can easily be updated with electronic ignition and /or electronic fuel injection (http://www.flyefii.com), performing much better that any automotive engine.  

4.- If you are planing to fly long legs, as I love to do, please thing about reliability first and performance second. 

 

LE s/n; 1521

Edited July 23, 2016 by Lukeman

[macleodm3]

My way of thinking.,,

 

1.- Those automotive engines are not design and will not stand 75% power output 100% of the time, as an aircraft engine do.

2.-  Rotary engines have many cooling, lubrication and fuel consumption problems to be considered as airworthy.

3.- An old aircraft engine as a 320 or 360 has more than enough power and reliability to be used on the LE. Also they can easily be updated with electronic ignition and /or electronic fuel injection (http://www.flyefii.com), performing much better that any automotive engine.  

4.- If you are planing to fly long legs, as I love to do, please thing about reliability first and performance second. 

 

LE s/n; 1521

I completely agree with your points #2, #3, and #4.

As far as your #1, I have not seen evidence of automotive engines not standing 75% power 100% of the time.  It is my impression that it is rare for the automotive "engine proper" to fail on an aircraft.  Almost every failure I have seen is in the aftermarket bolt on parts such as the PSRU, ignition, and intake.  

 

Often, there may be an inherent design flaw with an automotive engine that shows up on airplanes as well as in the car that the engine was designed for (such as piston slap in Subarus and 40 years worth of engine failures in Mazda rotaries).  So those engines break in cars and airplanes.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Andrew Anunson